Combat and Mounted combat feels clunky and weird

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Skyvoice

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Hello everyone, I just wanted to discuss the issue of Mounted combat feeling extremely clunky. The combat in general feels weird, but it's mostly mounted combat.

First of all, I'd like to adress the issue of using 1-handed and 2-handed weapons on a horse. To strike an enemy next to you, you have to completely move the camera so that you are basically staring into the ground. This was nothing like this in Warband. It feels weird and unnatural. Is this just me? I can't explain it better than this, but I am sure that you will understand.

Secondly, The horse does not seem like an advantage any more. Yes it's good for kiting emenies with a bow, but going vs infantry with a horse using one or 2 handed weapons seems like a suicide. If you are playing on realistic, you know full well that any damage matters. You can't fight looters on horseback using these weapons because somehow, they will hit you, and not the other way around. Their stone throwing is increadibly accurate and strikes even more so. More on that later.

You might use polerams, and truly, this is where horseback fighting shines the brightest, but the pike aim feels extremely weird. You might be aiming at the guy, but somehow, he will simply buzz next to the tip of the spear. Again, comparing this to the Warband, having a mount was an extreme steroid, and having a good mount could have made you unstopable. You could fight with one handed swords perfectly well. And why shouldnt you? Sabres, swords and one handed weapons have been used on horseback throughtout history. It's not about the learning curve. I've been swapping between warband and bannerlord and something feels way off.

Now, I am happy that enemies got a better AI. But this combat system is not prepared for that. If you have a sword and shield and your enemy has the same, the fight will look something like this: you attack, they block, they attack, you block, you attack, they block... and so on and so on. The wonderful thing is that if you are using a shield, you can bash them, however this does negligable damage and does not provide an opening to strike. Am I having a bad aproach to dismounted combat?
 
Wow! Thanks! Amazing collection of threads. I've been going crazy to the point of wanting to drop Bannerlord and go back to Warband. People are talking about how combat feels more smooth. To me, it simply looks prettier, not smoother (way more clunky in reality). I will check out all the threads there.

(Deleted the "topics may be outdated" mistake)
 
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Looking at it again, I think the only outdated topics are the ones listed as fixed. The imprecise cavalry swings one definitely applies to your experience in singleplayer.
 
Count Talbar said:
It's definitely not just you. There have been many issues that were pointed out over the 10 months of the beta and many were never responded to. If you want to skim through the issues you can check them out here in the old beta forum https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-issues-and-inconsistencies-megathread.389699/ . Some topics may be a little outdated though as newer patches came out.
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10 MONTHS?! what were the TW doing .....in all that time?
 
My forum bugged out, I did not mean to write that topics may be a little utdated though. I think that was me accidently pasting a part of your reply. Aplogies. I will edit the comment.
 
Trayca said:
10 MONTHS?! what were the TW doing .....in all that time?
Click to expand...

I don't want to paint the wrong picture. TW did fix quite a few things over the course of the beta, though the progress was somewhat slow going. They could very well be intending to fix the issues, but we just haven't gotten any definitive answers on many of them.
 
Yeah, mounted combat feels REALLY weird. I thought it was just a matter of getting used to it at first but you can barely hit soldier who are at your sides, even with the longest swords.
 
Apparently if you make your character taller than the default it makes it difficult to hit people from horseback with your weapon. I've missed many times when I was sure I would hit.

Manlets rise up.
 
Mix that with having a really hard time at getting any melee on the ground after you dismount. Your either whiffing air from your horse, jumping down into a zerg or trying to catchup with any fleeing enemy with no luck. Rare have i felt satiated yet in battle.
 
guisadop said:
Yeah, mounted combat feels REALLY weird. I thought it was just a matter of getting used to it at first but you can barely hit soldier who are at your sides, even with the longest swords.
Click to expand...

There are a few reasons for this. Cavalry has very poor maneuverability at low speeds and the swing arcs don't line up where you'd expect them to. Also, the mounted left swing has much shorter reach compared to the right swing. The left swing was shorter in Warband also, but not by that much.

Bumping and swinging into infantry doesn't really work either because bumps typically knock infantry all the way down even at low speeds. There isn't really a mini bump like in Warband. Also, you might sometimes slide infantry away from you with your horse. I don't know if its an intended mechanic, but infantry and horses can slowly push other agents out of the way and slide them across the ground.
 
My experience is that combat feels pretty good. I think not hitting enemies/having issues hitting enemies while mounted is more a case of not using the correct weapons/approach to deal with the target. What I'm about to write isn't meant to say "Get gud" or "You're doing it wrong". I'm merely adding my thoughts on this.


Count Talbar said:
Bumping and swinging into infantry doesn't really work either because bumps typically knock infantry all the way down even at low speeds. There isn't really a mini bump like in Warband. Also, you might sometimes slide infantry away from you with your horse. I don't know if its an intended mechanic, but infantry and horses can slowly push other agents out of the way and slide them across the ground.
Click to expand...

To me, it sounds pretty reasonable that having a horse smashing into you would no doubt nock you of your feet, considering the difference in weight of a human body and a full grown horse. In my mind, the mini bump in warband felt much less reasonable than what we see in Bannerlord. The ragdolling is why you'd want to couch a long lance/spear while charging your target head on, scewering your target before the horse crashes into it, pushing your target to the ground. While using other weapons like swords and axes, you'd want to ride up alongside the target, swiping at it while passing by. Naturally, you'll want to use as long of a blade/axe as possible, since you're mounted on a horse. Some swords (especially the twohanders) have over 100 lenght, more than enough to cut down enemies on foot.

As for getting killed if stuck in infantry-blobs while being on horseback, I don't understand why that's a cause for complaint; You're basically a sitting duck placed upon a meaty pedestal, surrounded by enemy soldiers who can come at you and your horse from every direction. Because of the danger of getting stunlocked if surrounded in Bannerlord, I think employing chock-cavalry tactics is more beneficial than melee cav tactics,meaning instead of charging in and remaining there, you cycle-charge the enemy. Instead of going for the center-rmass of the enemy force, you try to hit targets at the enemy flanks and rear, allowing you to more safely chipping of exposed soldiers.

Edit: I'm not saying the mechanics are perfect, but overall I think they work.
 
I learned to hit if I time the swing correctly while mounted. Only problem is you have to look down much more than you think and camera angle becomes uncomfortable.
Some fix to attack down on the sides without tilting the camera as much would be welcome on the future!

btw the horses feel much better if they have high maneuverability stats, the low stat horses are clunky yes but the better ones are more what you would expect from a horse.

I think they should make cav super dangerous, charging over people easily. Like they would realistically.
Charging into people often just push them away and don't knock down.
But if the rider get hit by a long spear from the ground or lance from another rider in a charge, the rider should risk falling off from the horse.
Better riding skill lowers the chance of course.
 
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I charge into a battle on my steed my sword at the right angle, ready to strik--

*killed by a peasant with a pitchfork*

And so begins the story of IRL Switzerland
 
Count Talbar said:
Bumping and swinging into infantry doesn't really work either because bumps typically knock infantry all the way down even at low speeds. There isn't really a mini bump like in Warband. Also, you might sometimes slide infantry away from you with your horse. I don't know if its an intended mechanic, but infantry and horses can slowly push other agents out of the way and slide them across the ground.
Click to expand...

This is my biggest gripe with mounted combat right now. Having to lower the camera to be able to hit anything is also annoying and should be addressed, but that can be fixed somewhat by a long reach weapon. Gently sliding aside the enemy that you are trying to kill however is... Weird.

"Ah! Finally, I got you, now I am gonna chop your head off! Just... Oh, wait, yes move a lil bit yonder. There you go. Now I am gonna swing through air because my armored warhorse has gently nudged you to the side instead of trampling you."

Yep. Weird.
 
Trust me, a horse can easily knock you down, considering warhorses as well, anyone would hit the ground hard, and even see some airtime if the horse crashed into you just right ?
 
Skyvoice said:
Hello everyone, I just wanted to discuss the issue of Mounted combat feeling extremely clunky. The combat in general feels weird, but it's mostly mounted combat.

First of all, I'd like to adress the issue of using 1-handed and 2-handed weapons on a horse. To strike an enemy next to you, you have to completely move the camera so that you are basically staring into the ground. This was nothing like this in Warband. It feels weird and unnatural. Is this just me? I can't explain it better than this, but I am sure that you will understand.

Secondly, The horse does not seem like an advantage any more. Yes it's good for kiting emenies with a bow, but going vs infantry with a horse using one or 2 handed weapons seems like a suicide. If you are playing on realistic, you know full well that any damage matters. You can't fight looters on horseback using these weapons because somehow, they will hit you, and not the other way around. Their stone throwing is increadibly accurate and strikes even more so. More on that later.

You might use polerams, and truly, this is where horseback fighting shines the brightest, but the pike aim feels extremely weird. You might be aiming at the guy, but somehow, he will simply buzz next to the tip of the spear. Again, comparing this to the Warband, having a mount was an extreme steroid, and having a good mount could have made you unstopable. You could fight with one handed swords perfectly well. And why shouldnt you? Sabres, swords and one handed weapons have been used on horseback throughtout history. It's not about the learning curve. I've been swapping between warband and bannerlord and something feels way off.

Now, I am happy that enemies got a better AI. But this combat system is not prepared for that. If you have a sword and shield and your enemy has the same, the fight will look something like this: you attack, they block, they attack, you block, you attack, they block... and so on and so on. The wonderful thing is that if you are using a shield, you can bash them, however this does negligable damage and does not provide an opening to strike. Am I having a bad aproach to dismounted combat?
Click to expand...
But anyway, I glad I'm not the only one who thought something was off. At least with npc reach, especially while I'm on horseback.
 
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