Cavalry with glaives/menavlions abuse.

[Artemeis]

I play Skirmish in group of 6 players nearly every day, and we have noticed the abuse that is gaining popularity. There are two factions that can use cutting polearms as cavalry-Khuzaits(Lancer) and Empire(Courser). It can be countered with lances and spears, but:
1)The amount of damage is overwhelming. It's one shot in 7 out of 10 hits even standing or without great speed. I mean, even armored horses can be one shotted. I personally dealt about 300-320 damage several times with this, and it nearly reaches the couched lance amount of damage.
2)The speed of strikes is way too high for a weapon with such length.
3)Full damage can be inflicted even in the end of the animation, when the glaive/menavlion goes down after the hit and starts slowing down.
4)Even new players can basically swing this thing around and easily get kills, which nullifies the idea of getting good in multiplayer and improving your skill.
5)Horseman on foot swings glaive slower than on horse, which is quite strange too. However, even on foot these 2 weapons(menavlion and glaive) deal way too much damage and have high speed.
Of course we got used to people using it and worked out methods of countering them, but in my opinion it's not appropriate for balance to have a weapon that is easier to wield and get kills than any other.
Thank you for your attention, feel free to share your opinions on this matter.

 

[Oebelysk]

the weapon is clearly broken. a unit of menavlions is able to wipe out 2-3 units in captain mode because it one shots literally everything regardless of armor. the fact that they haven't fixed this since the beta is infuriating

 

[Faranox]

It is absolutely busted. If you have a look at the Feedback & Suggestions part of the forums you'll see many posts agreeing with your assessments here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?forums/feedback-suggestions.695/

 

[Nikolai Ludovik]

this really needs a fix...

 

[Ichon]

Yep, the swing being able to do full damage throughout the entire arc + the swing speed being as high as many 1 handed weapons is simply stupid.

That said using it in a formation is quite difficult, found that out in captain mode but 1 v 1 riding around on a horse or vs infantry (the swing animation seems to be off as so many people in MP drop their shield thinking it is clear but it still catches them) you can quickly go on rampages.

I tried it a couple of days ago and was killed quickly every time in MP by shielded players but then today after having played a lot more in MP I tried it again and daaamn... once you adjusted to MP movements that thing is way too strong. Killed 4 players in 1 swing each and killed a player and the horse in two swings as the arc of the hit went thru both. It isn't the most annoying thing in the game at the moment but comes a close 2nd.

In the hands of any decent player it is extremely dangerous if you don't have a ranged weapon and some distance. The herky jerky swing in a twirl that decapitates anyone in range is tricky to time- been standing with a shield up and out of range with a spear and still been clipped.

 

[AVRC]

We are testing some new cavalry polearm alternatives to replace the current ones.

 

[Caps]

We are testing some new cavalry polearm alternatives to replace the current ones.

the problem isnt the polearm itself...

Lances share the same problem, they have just straight out too much attack speed. Lances and 2h should be way slower so they cant just spam the attacks from the horse but need to react to the melee fighters. It will force them to time their attacks better aswell. This will buff spears and give them a unique function in the game, at the moment spears are outdone by lances and polearms in all categories.

The menavlion nerf already took alot of power off the courser. If the attack speed gets adjusted he will be totally fine, for casual play.

Another problem are glances when hitting people on horses from foot, most of the attacks just glance off of them. Weapons in general need better handling to lower the amount of glances significantly. (or different modifiers so glances only happen on startup)




It is impossible to aim better, the game shouldnt be roulette. The glances widen the huge gap between heavy and light units aswell, which affects the faction balance. It is straight out impossible to win certain matchups on certain maps. But i guess this is a problem for another topic.

 

[Eisengewitter]

I think it must be harder to hit with this weapons. More soft hits and a decreased swing damage will do.