Call of Duty: Bannerlord

[Hax.]

Speaking form a heavy infantry focused perspective, the game (still) feels and plays like a medieval shooter. After the disastrous cav problems we had in the past and players that literally can't master any level of melee combat, archery becomes the new noob friendly super spam class.

To be totally honest it is a exhausting piss off beeing shot in the middle of any fight, no matter if its crowded or a simple duel - you will get shot down soon or later by some amateur John Rambo that spams the scenery until he lands a (most super deadly 50+ dmg) hit without facing any consequences.

I dont want to bring up another discussion about balancing or limitations (which are definitely wrong directions to go) but simply ask for two things

For gods sake, bring back friendly fire

+ bring realistic physics for throwables/arrows. Getting killed on 0 meters distance by an arrow or spear that theoretically has no force behind it to penetrate your armor shouldn't be possible.

Also it would be a nice detail to see Devs back on public servers, playing and experiencing what is going on and wrong with the current game to act accordingly in the upcoming patches..I haven't seen any of you in months.

 

[flashn00b]

If you think archer spam is bad now, you probably haven't played the game during the 1.5.5 or 1.5.6 versions. Game was literally unplayable due to how OP archers were at the time.

I think they're doing something right with the current balancing, because i'm all but certain that Bannerlord's playerbase didn't grow a sense of honor while I was playing Warband prior to 1.5.7

If archers need to be further nerfed, I still stand by my suggestion on giving cavalry flinching immunity against ranged attacks if they're in the middle of a melee attack animation or if they're using a couchable lance (lances would probably need a dedicated stat to dictate the number of projectiles they can shrug off before the stance is broken)

The concept of giving cavalry super armor would make it so that archers will either need to pick up a spear/lance/pike or land a headshot if they wanna stop a horseman dead on his tracks.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

heavy armor should realistically deflect arrows,

giving arrows infinite penetration leads to everyone abusing it,

archers are a utility that should take down light infantry/unarmored cavalry/ other lightly armored archers,
preventing lighter characters from kiting heavy infantry/ heavy cav

 

[Mushbeast]

Archers and to an extent, throwing weapons, are still my most hated aspect of the game, leagues beyond cavalry. They're such a hard counter to pretty much every class where if you're caught without a shield you have practically zero chance to survive, even if you try to run away.
On the other hand, any 'counter' class to archers are on pretty even terms once they've engaged in a melee, making the archers only draw-back that they generally don't spawn with shields.

There's a number of things that would help the issue:

• Damage reduction.
• Melee skill reduction.
• Projectile speed reduction.
• Friendly fire enabled for more modes.
• Less ammo in arrow stacks.

Only two to three of these would have to be implemented as adding in all at once would likely make the class too weak. Also it's probably worth noting that the developers have said they are changing the relationship between armors and projectiles, which could in itself solve this issue completely. It would be good if heavy infantry were near impervious to arrow fire, giving them an actual role in the game.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

Archers and to an extent, throwing weapons, are still my most hated aspect of the game, leagues beyond cavalry. They're such a hard counter to pretty much every class where if you're caught without a shield you have practically zero chance to survive, even if you try to run away.
On the other hand, any 'counter' class to archers are on pretty even terms once they've engaged in a melee, making the archers only draw-back that they generally don't spawn with shields.

There's a number of things that would help the issue:

• Damage reduction.
• Melee skill reduction.
• Projectile speed reduction.
• Friendly fire enabled for more modes.
• Less ammo in arrow stacks.

Only two to three of these would have to be implemented as adding in all at once would likely make the class too weak. Also it's probably worth noting that the developers have said they are changing the relationship between armors and projectiles, which could in itself solve this issue completely. It would be good if heavy infantry were near impervious to arrow fire, giving them an actual role in the game.

dont take away their ability to melee that just encourages them to kite.

the problem is that there is a class system and that everyone isn't allowed to take up a bow and a shield and a mount if they want,
you shouldn't make a class slower then another one just bc they take up a bow, that is silly
everyone should run the same speed, just the items should carry speed penalties like shields so they can drop their equipment and fight on equal footing with any player so you can survive if your surrounded

 

[Mushbeast]

dont take away their ability to melee that just encourages them to kite.

the problem is that there is a class system and that everyone isn't allowed to take up a bow and a shield and a mount if they want,
you shouldn't make a class slower then another one just bc they take up a bow, that is silly
everyone should run the same speed, just the items should carry speed penalties like shields so they can drop their equipment and fight on equal footing with any player so you can survive if your surrounded

It's a tricky one to balance in that regard, as you're right that it will encourage the archer to stay away from melee, but they still need to have some sort of disadvantage in melee combat. Whether that's done through balancing weapons (which they generally have worse weapons) or through armor values or through other mechanics altogether.

I think a decent way to balance the speed aspect would be to put a lot of the weight onto quivers, reduce the overall amount in each quiver and add options to get a second quiver for more ammo but as a speed trade-off. There are already mechanics to pick up every individual arrow on the ground, however there's currently no need to at all as you have a massive amount of ammo to begin with.

This would discourage arrow spam and camping as you'll have to eventually head in to scavenge up again.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

It's a tricky one to balance in that regard, as you're right that it will encourage the archer to stay away from melee, but they still need to have some sort of disadvantage in melee combat. Whether that's done through balancing weapons (which they generally have worse weapons) or through armor values or through other mechanics altogether.

I think a decent way to balance the speed aspect would be to put a lot of the weight onto quivers, reduce the overall amount in each quiver and add options to get a second quiver for more ammo but as a speed trade-off. There are already mechanics to pick up every individual arrow on the ground, however there's currently no need to at all as you have a massive amount of ammo to begin with.

This would discourage arrow spam and camping as you'll have to eventually head in to scavenge up again.

"they still need to have some sort of disadvantage in melee combat"

i disagree, arrows should not be able to penetrate heavy armor, thats it, it should kill a horse in 3ish arrows, or a unarmored man,
but a heavy armor tank (horse or man) should be able to deflect arrows

there is alot of archer hate right now bc arrows are lazers that can penetrate everything, but given the right role and realistic armor penetration archers will fall into their proper role of skirmishing or shooting retreating soldiers, being well liked on the battlefield as a means to end battle quicker from kiting cav or skirmishers rather then the lazer cannons shooting through solid metal armor

 

[Mushbeast]

If they are just as good at melee why would you ever choose any class beside archer? I get that you're talking from a point where all classes are universally the same stat-wise, but that's just not how it is and most likely wont be in Native MP.

Personally I think 3 arrows to take down a horse is ridiculous as well, they're supposed to the main counter for archers but as it stands now archers are practically the main counter for horses both armored and unarmored.

We can both agree that the relation between arrows and armor is the main culprit here so we'll just have to see what TW does with it.

 

[flashn00b]

The fact that i haven't had too many issues with archer spam in the games i played probably indicates that steps are being taken to prevent archer spam. As i've mentioned earlier, I strongly distrust Bannerlord's playerbase with not spamming an overpowered class.

I am still under the mentality that the best approach if people still think that archers are OP would be to give cavalry more anti-archer tools, so as to encourage the picking of foot soldiers with spears as a means of counterplay.

 

[Einarcf]

Tell us which mode you are discussing, siege?

 

[Mr_Shestak]

TW will ignore you, same as my thread about MP problems, but +1 from me anyway

 

[Varian♛]

NeRf EVeRy OtHeR ClASS BeCaSsE I am SuCk At my OwN ClasS1111!!!1!

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

If they are just as good at melee why would you ever choose any class beside archer? I get that you're talking from a point where all classes are universally the same stat-wise, but that's just not how it is and most likely wont be in Native MP.

Personally I think 3 arrows to take down a horse is ridiculous as well, they're supposed to the main counter for archers but as it stands now archers are practically the main counter for horses both armored and unarmored.

We can both agree that the relation between arrows and armor is the main culprit here so we'll just have to see what TW does with it.

if you read my signature i dont think there should be any classes, just an equipment selection screen,

players wouldnt choose bows bc the weight will make them slower in a melee, and the general cost of a bow could be used for better armor/weapon/mount

if there was unlimited gold then yes everyone should have a bow for skirmish then drop it for melee to avoid being slow,

 

[Mushbeast]

if you read my signature i dont think there should be any classes, just an equipment selection screen,

players wouldnt choose bows bc the weight will make them slower in a melee, and the general cost of a bow could be used for better armor/weapon/mount

if there was unlimited gold then yes everyone should have a bow for skirmish then drop it for melee to avoid being slow,

I would much prefer an equipment selection screen as well. However correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Warband did archers not spawn with less health or something along those lines?

If the bow was extremely expensive it might work, but otherwise the ideal set-up would be to grab a bow every time and do as much damage until you are in too close where you must fight (if they are expensive I doubt many people would drop them) which in my eyes would only reinforce the archer meta.

Overall I like where your idea is coming from, but there needs to be further mechanics and ideas implemented to provide a reason not to constantly attack from the safety of range. Anyway this is all hypothetical here, there's not a chance any of this will be taken into considering for Native.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

I would much prefer an equipment selection screen as well. However correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Warband did archers not spawn with less health or something along those lines?

If the bow was extremely expensive it might work, but otherwise the ideal set-up would be to grab a bow every time and do as much damage until you are in too close where you must fight (if they are expensive I doubt many people would drop them) which in my eyes would only reinforce the archer meta.

Overall I like where your idea is coming from, but there needs to be further mechanics and ideas implemented to provide a reason not to constantly attack from the safety of range. Anyway this is all hypothetical here, there's not a chance any of this will be taken into considering for Native.

i think archers will not be favored if armor realistically deflected arrows, making it useless to use against heavily armored foes,
i think just arrow penetration needs to be adjusted realistically then they wont be overplayed

 

[Mushbeast]

Yeah that would work wonders. In the current design philosophy where there are supposed to be hard counters to each class, it seems only fair that heavy infantry be a hard counter to archers, whilst being more of an all-round unit than cavalry.

 

[Einarcf]

In warband MP, every unit had different hp, dmg, weapon, speed, bow, riding stats. You actually could not mount/pick up high tier horses and bows while not being cav/archer yourself. Could use crossbow though.. In BL it seems only archers have good bow stats and cav has good riding stats. There is some small differences like foot movement speed and hp in BL too. Everything else seems the same skillwise.

 

[drontrixsepta]

In warband MP, every unit had different hp, dmg, weapon, speed, bow, riding stats. You actually could not mount/pick up high tier horses and bows while not being cav/archer yourself. Could use crossbow though.. In BL it seems only archers have good bow stats and cav has good riding stats. There is some small differences like foot movement speed and hp in BL too. Everything else seems the same skillwise.

i always presumed your avatar picture is a chicken for some reason... Mind blown rn

 

[DainMorgot]

Stop trying to make the game realistic, realism is for nerds and nobody likes it in A VIDEO GAME.

 

[Yukmouth++]

Stop trying to make the game realistic, realism is for nerds and nobody likes it in A VIDEO GAME.

Amen, Realism has no business in MULTIPLAYER Bannerlord. I'm all in for realism when it comes to SP, but when it comes to MP, it needs GAMEPLAY, not realism.