Call of Duty: Bannerlord

[Mushbeast]

If anything it's TW's attempts at realism so far that are drawing the game back. The attempts to 'show the brutality of ranged combat' or whatever they said back then, have led to a frustrating and boring meta.

For instance the insane speed of arrows (that might even be faster than realistic at this point). I would personally prefer if the projectiles were slower, not to a point where it looks stupid, but to a point where you actually have to accommodate for distance and drop in your shots. At release arrows were slower than they are now, and I'd probably go even slower than they were.

Did you guys even read the OP or did you just see the word 'realistic' and parrot the same thing people have said in other threads? Nothing about what he has said would be detrimental to gameplay.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

If anything it's TW's attempts at realism so far that are drawing the game back. The attempts to 'show the brutality of ranged combat' or whatever they said back then, have led to a frustrating and boring meta.

For instance the insane speed of arrows (that might even be faster than realistic at this point). I would personally prefer if the projectiles were slower, not to a point where it looks stupid, but to a point where you actually have to accommodate for distance and drop in your shots. At release arrows were slower than they are now, and I'd probably go even slower than they were.

Did you guys even read the OP or did you just see the word 'realistic' and parrot the same thing people have said in other threads? Nothing about what he has said would be detrimental to gameplay.

arrows going straight through mail with underpadding is not realistic, its "gameplay" which they thought would improve the game,

in reality a heavily armored opponent would take alot less damage from arrows, and some would every bounce of their heavy mail armor,

taleworlds has failed mp, lets just let mods take over, it will eventually surpass native mp when they release custom servers, its just going to be a long wait and any attempt they make a balancing will be ignored when a warband copy gets pasted into a bannerlord server

 

[Mabons]

If anything it's TW's attempts at realism so far that are drawing the game back. The attempts to 'show the brutality of ranged combat' or whatever they said back then, have led to a frustrating and boring meta.

For instance the insane speed of arrows (that might even be faster than realistic at this point). I would personally prefer if the projectiles were slower, not to a point where it looks stupid, but to a point where you actually have to accommodate for distance and drop in your shots. At release arrows were slower than they are now, and I'd probably go even slower than they were.

Did you guys even read the OP or did you just see the word 'realistic' and parrot the same thing people have said in other threads? Nothing about what he has said would be detrimental to gameplay.

Not gonna lie if they made arrows slower than they were at release we would just see people use them in melee ranges instead of far away. It becomes a lot harder to hit people if you have to predict further and further ahead where they are going to be. It's pretty good where it is, and it's less that archery is powerful but more that the other classes lack the counterplay to deal with them. Infantry need to be faster with shields up so when they commit to pushing an archer it doesnt take forever to do, and cavalry's horses needs to properly prevent them from shooting point blank.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Stop trying to make the game realistic, realism is for nerds and nobody likes it in A VIDEO GAME.

Amen, Realism has no business in MULTIPLAYER Bannerlord. I'm all in for realism when it comes to SP, but when it comes to MP, it needs GAMEPLAY, not realism.

Perhaps hell has frozen over; or maybe I had a stroke or something and didn't realise it... but I actually agree with DainMorgot & Yukmouth. Gameplay should always come over realism every single time.

A heavy armour model in which arrows are deflected would only work if armour could be pierced in some form. War of the Roses (for all it's flaws) actually had a brilliant armour model; in which a plucky archer could target the gaps in the armour - or even an open visor. However we don't have that in bannerlord and working with what we have archers have to be able to deal damage. I don't believe in hard counters - this isn't rock paper scissors; skill should always be the deciding factor.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

Perhaps hell has frozen over; or maybe I had a stroke or something and didn't realise it... but I actually agree with DainMorgot & Yukmouth. Gameplay should always come over realism every single time.

A heavy armour model in which arrows are deflected would only work if armour could be pierced in some form. War of the Roses (for all it's flaws) actually had a brilliant armour model; in which a plucky archer could target the gaps in the armour - or even an open visor. However we don't have that in bannerlord and working with what we have archers have to be able to deal damage. I don't believe in hard counters - this isn't rock paper scissors; skill should always be the deciding factor.

i would love the addition of gaps in armor where archers can penetrate thick heavy armor by targeting an open visor etc, that would be a great balance between invincible all piercing arrows and heavy inf unbalance

 

[AxiosXiphos]

i would love the addition of gaps in armor where archers can penetrate thick heavy armor by targeting an open visor etc, that would be a great balance between invincible all piercing arrows and heavy inf unbalance

This sounds great but there is a genuine issue with this. Performance. The game needs to register 100's of unique entities running around fighting and getting hurt all at once. The more complex you make the models, hitboxes - the more complex you then need to make the A.I. Both of these things will hurt performance.

And in the end Bannerlord is more about quantity then quality. Other games have deeper medieval combat mechanics - but none can offer it on the scale that Mount & Blade can.

In the other direction this is why Bannerlord can never support the amount of models that Total War can - as an entity in total war only has 1 hitbox and a much much simpler A.I on an individual basis.

So in summary: A nice thought and in a perfect world I'd agree with you. But I think most people would prefer better performance and bigger battles then this - at least in M&B.

 

[Mushbeast]

Not gonna lie if they made arrows slower than they were at release we would just see people use them in melee ranges instead of far away. It becomes a lot harder to hit people if you have to predict further and further ahead where they are going to be. It's pretty good where it is, and it's less that archery is powerful but more that the other classes lack the counterplay to deal with them. Infantry need to be faster with shields up so when they commit to pushing an archer it doesnt take forever to do, and cavalry's horses needs to properly prevent them from shooting point blank.

In my eyes it'd be better if there was a higher skill ceiling in that regard, you'd be able to differentiate who are the truely great archers by their ability to hit far off targets. At the moment now anyone who has played any sort of FPS game can wreck as an archer as it's basically put the crosshair over the target and fire. Saying that, there are some absolute beasts who can consistently headshot over shields or footshot.

You might be right about archers ending up just firing at ultra close range but I see that happen regardless. It's a tricky thing to balance, especially if they are trying to fit them into a 6v6 skirmish mode where-as archers would have never really been used like that. You can see their true OP nature in Siege or TDM, and I'm certain they'll become a massive issue once battle mode is released.

Perhaps hell has frozen over; or maybe I had a stroke or something and didn't realise it... but I actually agree with DainMorgot & Yukmouth. Gameplay should always come over realism every single time.

A heavy armour model in which arrows are deflected would only work if armour could be pierced in some form. War of the Roses (for all it's flaws) actually had a brilliant armour model; in which a plucky archer could target the gaps in the armour - or even an open visor. However we don't have that in bannerlord and working with what we have archers have to be able to deal damage. I don't believe in hard counters - this isn't rock paper scissors; skill should always be the deciding factor.

An armor system like that would be great, though I doubt will get implemented. The problem is that archers are the only real class that hard counters any other, you get caught without a shield and there's no chance to dodge at all, no skill involved in it, it all just comes down to whether the archer will make a mistake and miss.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

This sounds great but there is a genuine issue with this. Performance. The game needs to register 100's of unique entities running around fighting and getting hurt all at once. The more complex you make the models, hitboxes - the more complex you then need to make the A.I. Both of these things will hurt performance.

And in the end Bannerlord is more about quantity then quality. Other games have deeper medieval combat mechanics - but none can offer it on the scale that Mount & Blade can.

In the other direction this is why Bannerlord can never support the amount of models that Total War can - as an entity in total war only has 1 hitbox and a much much simpler A.I on an individual basis.

there must be a middle ground, just enough hitboxes to include a gap in armor,

i think that would be bad for singleplayer but for multiplayer there has to be a solution to the archer meta that exist and the improvement on armor performance against arrows in general

the only solution to archer meta is a additional arrow/armor penetration system that is balanced for both

 

[AxiosXiphos]

An armor system like that would be great, though I doubt will get implemented. The problem is that archers are the only real class that hard counters any other, you get caught without a shield and there's no chance to dodge at all, no skill involved in it, it all just comes down to whether the archer will make a mistake and miss.

As someone who plays heavy infantry 90% of the time - I say good. Let them kill each other .

I do agree though. I do have a weird suspicion of something coming soon which might... "fix" this. We know Taleworlds are toying with the idea of adding skill based perks into MP - aka the SP leveling perks as some sort of choice on a class-by-class basis.

One of the two hander perks lets you do an arrow deflection with your weapon.. I wonder if Taleworlds are crazy enough to include that in MP...

 

[Mushbeast]

As someone who plays heavy infantry 90% of the time - I say good. Let them kill each other .

I do agree though. I do have a weird suspicion of something coming soon which might... "fix" this. We know Taleworlds are toying with the idea of adding skill based perks into MP - aka the SP leveling perks as some sort of choice on a class-by-class basis.

One of the two hander perks lets you do an arrow deflection with your weapon.. I wonder if Taleworlds are crazy enough to include that in MP...

I'd love to see that just for a laugh, it could be the OP flavor of the month that they love doing each patch lol. It seems though that archers are supposed to be the main counter for shock infantry, so I'd be surprised if they add any sort of anti-ranged perk for them.

Talesworld's themselves have said they are making changes to the projectile vs. armor calculations so that itself could probably fix the problem. At the very least give us a melee only mode.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I'd love to see that just for a laugh, it could be the OP flavor of the month that they love doing each patch lol. It seems though that archers are supposed to be the main counter for shock infantry, so I'd be surprised if they add any sort of anti-ranged perk for them.

Talesworld's themselves have said they are making changes to the projectile vs. armor calculations so that itself could probably fix the problem. At the very least give us a melee only mode.

Well if the Anti-ranged perk is using your greatsword to try and block an arrow mid-flight; I say good luck to the shock-infantry! At the very least it will make for some cool videos.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

I'd love to see that just for a laugh, it could be the OP flavor of the month that they love doing each patch lol. It seems though that archers are supposed to be the main counter for shock infantry, so I'd be surprised if they add any sort of anti-ranged perk for them.

Talesworld's themselves have said they are making changes to the projectile vs. armor calculations so that itself could probably fix the problem. At the very least give us a melee only mode.

i get excited when taleworlds acknowledges a problem,
but i am suspicious of how they will fix it to satisfy all parties,

i want archers to do very little damage to armored opponents,

archers want their arrows to be death lazers

i think they are more archers then infantry.
therefore im scared of how they handle this

 

[chAOS!]

I would compare bannerlord more with Battlefront then COD, but yeah i agree, i wish they would make it more of a sandbox with custom loadouts and servers that don't kick you out at the end of the match, but i guess us sandbox enthusiasts have BO now.

 

[KSHMR]

Change the name of bows from bow to .50 sniper rifle

 

[Helz]

I would much prefer an equipment selection screen as well. However correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Warband did archers not spawn with less health or something along those lines?

All the stats varied, but the main one used to differentiate in Warband is missing in Bannerlord. Powerstrike determined how hard you hit. An infantry player hit harder than an archer with melee weapons. Which makes perfect sense. I feel like it'd be so much easier to balance this game if that stat still existed.

Not gonna lie if they made arrows slower than they were at release we would just see people use them in melee ranges instead of far away. It becomes a lot harder to hit people if you have to predict further and further ahead where they are going to be.

How is that bad? Shooting in melee range would put them in range of melee weapons. Which would be dangerous. At range they're safe from counterattack, so at the very least it ought to be hard to hit anything.