Beginning advice, general tips, random questions

[Lancefighter]

So then. I have managed to get a copy of this game (pre-release, yay discout...), and have been playing it over the last week some. I have come up with a number of questions

First: ranged weapons vs close (your army)
I seem to note that whenever I have a force of ranged units, they seem to live, but whenever I have a group of close ranged people, they die... I tried having an all ranged army, and they seem to do MUCH better than the close-ranged guys... I also find that I personally do better with a bow than any close range stuff (granted, close range gives me the ability to take prisoners...) Also, i like the little bits of immersion that they add (you cant shoot your bow to your right while riding, makes sense i suppose)

Next: Arrows...
I always seem to run out. Is there any way to make myself carry more arrows? There are like "large bags" of arrows, but those are still only like 30... 30 I dont think is anywhere near enough.

Tactical Map
Is there any way to see my position, my troop positions, the hostile positions on some type of battle map?

Money
Is it just me, or is the best way of making money in this game knocking people unconscious and selling them to the ransom guy?

Your troops:
What is the effectiveness of, say, a horse archer vs a non-horse? Will the horse move around the battlefield to maintain distance? Will the non-horse guys pull out shields/swords (i see a number of them with shields on their back...) and engage the enemy in hand-hand combat?

Companion/hero guys?
Will i need these? I want to make a team of just me and no other random people, but from what I am reading i cant possibly be a jack of all trades...

Allegiance to a state
In my first game, i started working as a merc rather early for the blue (dunno their name >.<) and one of the first things that happened was I got pasted by some orange guy riding around.. Is the only way to really get around this to get a good army before i pledge allegiance to a state?
Also, what kind of money does this offer? is it a good way to make lots of money and such, or should i avoid this in my earlier levels?

And umm. I think that is all of them. Might have some others to ask later though...

 

[Zilberfrid]

1 Practice makes perfect, a shooter might give you training in ranged, beating someone in close combat is harder. Train with your troops, the trainer, in arena's... Soon, you'll be striking down knights from their horses

2 bring two, or get fresh arrows from fallen enemies/allies

3 backspace

4 no, early money is best made in tournaments and sea raiders, the extra is fine, though you can't use a wide range of weapons

5 depends wildly on your tactics

6 Yes, you need them. You can also play dress-up with them

7 As a beginner, don't work for the blue (rhodok) faction, they are the hardest to play. You can check who is in war with who with a traveller, found in the tavern, or with the lords

 

[matt b]

So then. I have managed to get a copy of this game (pre-release, yay discout...), and have been playing it over the last week some. I have come up with a number of questions

First: ranged weapons vs close (your army)
I seem to note that whenever I have a force of ranged units, they seem to live, but whenever I have a group of close ranged people, they die... I tried having an all ranged army, and they seem to do MUCH better than the close-ranged guys... I also find that I personally do better with a bow than any close range stuff (granted, close range gives me the ability to take prisoners...) Also, i like the little bits of immersion that they add (you cant shoot your bow to your right while riding, makes sense i suppose)

not sure if there's a question in there or not...personally, I use a mix of cavalry (mainly swadian knights) and archers (vaegir marksmen) which seems to be effective for me

Next: Arrows...
I always seem to run out. Is there any way to make myself carry more arrows? There are like "large bags" of arrows, but those are still only like 30... 30 I dont think is anywhere near enough.

you can carry more than one bag of arrows. Granted, you still only have the 4 weapons slots, so something will have to go, probably your shield. You'll have to decide for yourself what's the best combination for you. Also, as troops die they sometimes drop some of their weapons that you can then pick up and use. Keep an eye out of spare arrows if you can. When you exit the battle, you'll return to whatever weapons you had previously.

Tactical Map
Is there any way to see my position, my troop positions, the hostile positions on some type of battle map?

hit backspace

Money
Is it just me, or is the best way of making money in this game knocking people unconscious and selling them to the ransom guy?

it's certainly one way, and in the beginning of the game, one of the easiest. At that point though, you should be trying to make money through every means possible. Trading, attacking parties and selling the loot, raiding villages (although you should probably avoid that until you're strong enough to take on lord's parties)

Your troops:
What is the effectiveness of, say, a horse archer vs a non-horse? Will the horse move around the battlefield to maintain distance? Will the non-horse guys pull out shields/swords (i see a number of them with shields on their back...) and engage the enemy in hand-hand combat?

honestly, horse archers are what I use the least of, so I don't know enough about them to really say

Companion/hero guys?
Will i need these? I want to make a team of just me and no other random people, but from what I am reading i cant possibly be a jack of all trades...

you certainly can play without them, but you'll be lacking in some way. It is next to impossible to sufficiently raise your own skill levels to be good at all the skills, so it's great to have the companions as skill dumps. Make one your healer, give another pathfinding and tracking type skills, give another trading skills, etc, etc. Plus, it's nice to have some strong fighters who can't be killed

Allegiance to a state
In my first game, i started working as a merc rather early for the blue (dunno their name >.<) and one of the first things that happened was I got pasted by some orange guy riding around.. Is the only way to really get around this to get a good army before i pledge allegiance to a state?
Also, what kind of money does this offer? is it a good way to make lots of money and such, or should i avoid this in my earlier levels?

Definitely wait until you can take on lord parties before pledging allegiance. The money you get as a mercenary isn't bad, your king gives you a weekly salary, but you can't hold any land in your name at all. As a mercenary or a vassal there are a few more quest options for lords to give you. But by actually giving your allegiance directly to a king and becoming a vassal, you get your own village which will entitle you to the taxes from it. Eventually, as you are able to siege and take over castles and towns you'll have a chance of getting awarded those as well. Which will just mean more tax money and also will give you places to stash extra troops and gear.

 

[Paingod]

Army Tactics - Close vs. Ranged.

Ranged units are solid choices against Bandit units but fall a little short against organized infantry with heavier armor and shields.  Their range is typically countered by lighter armor and possibly no shield.  Ranged units also can't do much against fast moving calvary.
Infantry units can be fodder for ranged units if not placed and moved correctly.  I find that 'hiding' infantry behind a hill, and forcing enemy archers to close to short range works wonders.  Using a "close" grouping (F also helps keep your infantry alive as they're close together and can assist each other.
Calvary works VERY well against range, but can fall victim to pike/spear wielding foes.  They also tend to run into a group of enemies and stay there, negating their mobility bonuses.  Calvary are good when used in waves.  "Charge!" (F3) will make them run out to engage, after they've gotten a few licks in, but before they get surrounded, order them to "Hold!" (F1) and return to where you are.  This keeps them from being swarmed and dropped.  Ranged Calvary is great, but sometimes runs in too close to a fight and gets mauled.

Arrows...

In sieges, you can try an scavenge arrows from fallen foes and friends.  In regular combat, you have a footlocker at your starting point that you can open to swap around your inventory.  Keep a few extra bags of arrows in there, and you'll never run dry.  You can run around, fire at will, return and refill, then go back out for more.

Tactical Map...

A tactical map must might make medieval times too easy.  You have to scout where the enemies are.  One thing you can do, though, is watch where your troops are trying to charge to.  Odds are, that's where the enemy is coming from.

Money...

Slavery is a great way to make cash.  IMO, there ought to be some sort of renown penalty for it, though.  Go from positive renown to negative and become infamous.  It was pretty common practice back then, so I guess that's just today's standards.  Another good way to make some solid coin is to enter tournaments at cities and bet on yourself.  You've got to make it through 6 rounds of combat, sometimes solo, sometimes with an AI team, but you can get upwards of $4000.  After you've won once in a city, the odds on you become less favorable, and you can walk away with less than $2000.  Selling equipment also nets some good money, especially if you've got a good Trade skill.  Sea Raiders and higher-end Deserters have the best neutral equipment that can be sold.

Troop Behavior...

Horse archers do tend to ride around, staying safe... but it's also harder to hit a target from horseback, so they might miss more often - I'd say it's a toss up, based mostly on what you want to do.  Units will switch equipment based on the situation.  Not every type of archer comes with a sword and shield.  Some might just try to hit with their fists.

Heroes...

Heroes are great - They can learn skills you yourself might not want to spend points on (Check to see "Leader" vs. "Party" skills - Skills like Leadership only work for you, not them).  Heroes also can't be killed; they can be knocked out, but not killed.  Also, you can equip them however you want.  The downside of heroes is that each has his/her own likes and dislikes - Some might have working with another hero or unit type, or they might detest certain activities.  At any rate, based on your personal build, heroes can be a huge blessing - If you're a "lover, not a fighter" you could have superior fighting heroes that train your units.  If you're a fighter first and foremost, your heroes could fill in gaps for Trade, Engineer, medical skills, Pathfinding, etc.

Allegiance...

You can remain 'neutral' as long as you want.  Turning down offers to become a King's Vassal hurt your rep with the king, but not much else.  Build up some Charisma and Leadership to increase your army capacity, or increase your renown - every 25 gives you +1 unit cap.  Being a Merc or Vassal opens you up to unprovoked attack, but has benefits.  You'll earn favor with the kingdom you side with, and as a vassal, you'll get to manage castles or lands for the King (if he likes you enough, he'll likely offer you a chance to manage newly captured lands).  There's also the "Claimant" route, where you help a rejected King reclaim his 'rightful' throne, thus becoming his right-hand man.  You can also try to conquer the whole map as a renegade, with no allegiance, but you're also soloing vs. everyone then.

 

[Lancefighter]

THanks for the quick answers guys

My tactics are mainly to place my archers on a hill (good coverage, hight always helps), and run around either with my bow and shoot, or get down and beat people over the head with a club...

About the first topic, I was kinda asking the usefulness of various foot soldiers, because i always seemed to lose the close-ranged guys, but rarely ever the long ranged guys (even if i had only them). Maybe it was because I had blue troops, and they apparently suck.


Ohh fun, take over the map by myself... that sounds interesting... Does the game have a political system as such that if i attack someone who likes someone else, the someone else starts hating me too?

Also, if I am a independent, can i start owning towns from the start? lol

 

[Orj]

About the first topic, I was kinda asking the usefulness of various foot soldiers, because i always seemed to lose the close-ranged guys, but rarely ever the long ranged guys (even if i had only them). Maybe it was because I had blue troops, and they apparently suck.

That would be why you were having trouble. You were using some of the weakest troops in the game.

Ohh fun, take over the map by myself... that sounds interesting... Does the game have a political system as such that if i attack someone who likes someone else, the someone else starts hating me too?

Nope. People will only get mad at you if you attack them.

Also, if I am a independent, can i start owning towns from the start? lol

I'm not sure if you mean "Can I start with a town as a fief?" or "Can I start pwning towns from the start?".

 

[matt b]

About the first topic, I was kinda asking the usefulness of various foot soldiers, because i always seemed to lose the close-ranged guys, but rarely ever the long ranged guys (even if i had only them). Maybe it was because I had blue troops, and they apparently suck.

personally, I haven't found infantry to be of much use. The Rhodocks (the blue guys) have no cavalry of any sort, so if you want some you'll have to go recruit some troops from one of the other factions (except the Nords, they don't have any cavalry either). I find most of the problems go away if I throw a good amount of Swadian Knights at them.

Also, if I am a independent, can i start owning towns from the start? lol

well, you can go ahead and start taking over castles and towns at any time, (I believe you do have to have negative relations with a faction first, which can be achieved by raiding a caravan or 2). However, then it's you against the world. You'll have no lords on your side, and every faction that declares war against you will have 20. It's about the toughest path in the game, and really only for the most hardcore players.

 

[naraic]

THanks for the quick answers guys

My tactics are mainly to place my archers on a hill (good coverage, hight always helps), and run around either with my bow and shoot, or get down and beat people over the head with a club...

About the first topic, I was kinda asking the usefulness of various foot soldiers, because i always seemed to lose the close-ranged guys, but rarely ever the long ranged guys (even if i had only them). Maybe it was because I had blue troops, and they apparently suck.

Foot do well enough as a screen for archers. Tell your archers and infantry to hold position and tell your infantry to advance 10 paces. If you don't have foot your archers will suffer as soon as you run into a force of Swadian knights

 

[Lancefighter]

Awesome, you guys are amazing...
Thanks for the tactics tips, its no wonder I always failed... apparently blue (no matter how amazing a color) fails at actually fighting. How about green? my new game starts me in the center of green territory, are they any good?

 

[naraic]

Awesome, you guys are amazing...
Thanks for the tactics tips, its no wonder I always failed... apparently blue (no matter how amazing a color) fails at actually fighting. How about green? my new game starts me in the center of green territory, are they any good?

The Vaegir (green guys) archers are amazing, although they do suffer from running out of ammo before effective range. The rest of their army is decent.

The Rodocks (blue guys) suffer from a stats bug, their crossbows are supposed to be good but someone wrote the wrong numbers somewhere and they aren't great.

 

[Lancefighter]

Awesome, you guys are amazing...
Thanks for the tactics tips, its no wonder I always failed... apparently blue (no matter how amazing a color) fails at actually fighting. How about green? my new game starts me in the center of green territory, are they any good?

The Vaegir (green guys) archers are amazing, although they do suffer from running out of ammo before effective range. The rest of their army is decent.

Umm so what does that mean in combat? Do they have an alternate weapon? will they somehow restock? Or just die?

 

[matt b]

Umm so what does that mean in combat? Do they have an alternate weapon? will they somehow restock? Or just die?

once they're out, they're out, but every unit, except for perhaps some of the lower level ones, have more than 1 weapon. I believe a lot (or possibly all) of Vaegir Marksmen have some form of 2 handed axes as their melee weapon. They actually can be fairly formidable when it comes to a hand to hand combat. Vaegir Knights aren't bad either, a little more lightly armored than their Swadian counterparts, but their weapons do a little bit more damage too.

 

[Lancefighter]

Awesome then, I shall stick with the green for my first run around, see how far I get with them.

 

[RhodocksStoleMyBike]

THanks for the quick answers guys

My tactics are mainly to place my archers on a hill (good coverage, hight always helps), and run around either with my bow and shoot, or get down and beat people over the head with a club...

About the first topic, I was kinda asking the usefulness of various foot soldiers, because i always seemed to lose the close-ranged guys, but rarely ever the long ranged guys (even if i had only them). Maybe it was because I had blue troops, and they apparently suck.


Ohh fun, take over the map by myself... that sounds interesting... Does the game have a political system as such that if i attack someone who likes someone else, the someone else starts hating me too?

Also, if I am a independent, can i start owning towns from the start? lol

The Rhodoks do suck, horribly. Unless you get the Trooptree Expansion Mod, but without it, they suck.

If you want a variously good range of troops, go Swadia(Orange), they have the most armored troops aswell as the best Cavlary(Swadian Knights). Usually, I have a good amount of Swadian Infantry to make a line a bit on the slope of a hill, while my archers pick the enemy off as they come up. Then whenever the enemy is coming, I send my Knights in with my Infantry and pretty much just destroy the enemy.

 

[Handel]

Basicly the most important info on your question:
1. Indeed the best way to make money yearly in the game is to capture looters and to sell them. Yuo can do this alone. Get yourself almost any horse, any shield and a pole weapon which makes blunt damage.

2. Companions are priceless - you can equip them and they can become killing machenies; besides they can have party skills (which affect the whole party) AND they are immportal.
The downside - everyone of them likes 1 other and dislikes 2 others - so it is not easy task to make a party larger then 6-7 companions.

3. Horse archers - they sucks. They rarely kill something and they do attack with melee weapons after their arrows are depleted. But usually they are dead long before.

4. Mellee troops - they are good for sieges - both defence and attack. But they are a toast when attacked with heavy cavalry. There are people which say it is good to have spearmen against the heavy cavalry. It is up to you but be ready for heavy casualties if you do so.

5. Related to the above topic - that's why the "trainer" skill is. You can train troops quite easily if all the companions have several picks in this skill.

6. Arrows - they are never enough. But you can carry spare arrows in your inventory. The inventory remains on battlefield as chest so you can return there and pick new arrows. But the chest doesn't seems to appear for sieges.

7. Allegiance, mercenaries ets - no matter what the money you get cover only tiny part of your expenses. But having allegiance allows to gain villages, castles and cities. They pay taxes but again - if you depend on the taxes you will be broke in 2 weeks.

 

[Lancefighter]

wait... so what really is the point then? If taxes and merc pay is as crappy as you say it is, then where do you make money? is killing and looting the only way?

Edit.
So today I took a look at the options screen, and noticed that combat was rather skewed in my favor. Something stupid like a .25x damage multiplier on all damage that I took, and something similar for my allies.

This is unacceptable. I will not play a game that gives me such an advantage... So i put it to normal... And i had to totally relearn combat. My army of 30 some got totally killed by 10 mountain bandits :\ Usually i eat those for breakfast solo... how in the world can you play like this?

 

[Zilberfrid]

You learn slowly. The reduced damage is there for a reason, it you don't feel comfortable with a higher damage setting, stick with the lower damage setting.

Also, mountain bandits are not that hard if you use sound tactics, get to a close high ground (their horses are fast) stick with it and you'll kill the horses before the infantry arrives, thus they'll fight two battles with numerical disadvantage

 

[Paingod]

When I started, I bumped everything to "Normal" with maxed battle size.  My difficulty rating is 73% now, and I'm OK with that.

When your main character can die in 1 good hit or 2 moderate hits, it makes you very cautious.  The tactic I keep falling back on is horse archery - I've learned to be a crack shot from horseback - Ride circles around enemy archers, while weaving in and out, and they have a heckuva hard time hitting you.  You'll need to lead your shots slightly, aiming just to the right of most enemies given that you can only fire from the left of your horse.

Keeping your troops alive is another matter all together.  I find that Forest bandits are solid at range, but suck in melee.  Mountain bandits aren't all that harsh in either.  Keeping your troops hidden behind an obstacle, such as a hill, keeps them from being targetted and then you can order a charge once the enemy is close.

Levels of your troops matter more, too.  If you have 30 Recruits vs. 30 Knights, you'll likely loose 25 recruits were you might have 2 knights get knocked unconscious.

 

[matt b]

.
So today I took a look at the options screen, and noticed that combat was rather skewed in my favor. Something stupid like a .25x damage multiplier on all damage that I took, and something similar for my allies.

This is unacceptable. I will not play a game that gives me such an advantage... So i put it to normal... And i had to totally relearn combat. My army of 30 some got totally killed by 10 mountain bandits :\ Usually i eat those for breakfast solo... how in the world can you play like this?

just be patient...don't feel ashamed having it on 1/4 damage, I think it's safe to say most of us did when we first started out. Just leave it there until that's no longer a challenge, then move it to half damage. Leave it there until that's no longer a challenge, then move to full damage. Once you get used to it, it's cake.

 

[Dryvus]

wait... so what really is the point then? If taxes and merc pay is as crappy as you say it is, then where do you make money? is killing and looting the only way?

Taxes from a decent village can actually be pretty high, and towns are reliable for a few thousand denars.