Bannerlord Worries

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Am I the only one who is just continuously losing faith in the game? Don't get me wrong I am still excited and support the devs, but recently over the last 2 years of gamescom everything they've shown feels EXTREMELY underwhelming.

Now before anyone says "its a passion project", or "you sound entitled" you must realize that with the announcement of early access being paid in full price, we are now customers, not just criticizers. People should expect feature complete game.

I am going to quote some things said by the official early access info list on steam to show some inconsistencies:

"The early access version will be reusing scenes for different towns, may lack some supporting features, may have a limited number of quests, voice-overs, etc."

This is simply irritating, and even though it dosen't directly mean anything, it makes you wonder just what went on from early 2016-2020 to release the game in a completely unfinished state. That etc is the real worry, as it seems they decided to be very selective and vague about what they DON'T plan on releasing. Still, the things they did say are just annoying, like reusing scenes. Remember the video they released a few weeks back, how the castle siege scene was completely off from its geographical location on the map? Well, I guess a lot more of that is coming our way in 2020!

"command and fight alongside their troops in large scale battles using the game’s extensive command system and intuitive skill-based directional combat system"

While the complaints on combat and the damage calculations are just shown everywhere throughout the forum, this 'extensive command system' seems so silly and provides virtually no good thing from it. What do I mean? How about the fact I can't tell my soldiers what equipment to prioritize which ties into the AI. Incoming cavalry charge? Spears on your backs boys, take out them swords! The cavalry charges rip right through thick heldfast infantry lines like a hot knife through butter, and don't get me started on infantry vs infantry.
SKIP TO 22:10!

Why are the infantry lines walking into their death? Based on what they described in terms of formations, AI in shieldwall formations will move very slowly. You can tell these dozen AI ARE in that formation, as they are walking, but for whatever reason they lagged so far behind they were easy pickings for the cavalry.

Also the AI in this game shows very little improvement towards warband, so this 'skill-based directional combat system' I guess is only told towards the multiplayer spectrum. In fact, because of the faster movement of the player, it feels like the player is a god as opposed to one man on the battlefield, so on horse he is practically invincible with the way cavalry is.

"Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product.”

As someone who has been following Bannerlord for a long while now, this is practically a slap in the face. Why? Taleworlds should take all the time they need to make this game, I agree! It is what they have been saying for years, wanting to prove themselves to everyone that they can create a feature complete game, only to pull off a 180 and charge people to help fix their game by giving them an incomplete version charged at full price. A lot of people are going to buy it, and love it, me included, but now I am shifting towards more of a M&B fan as opposed to a taleworlds one.

You can argue that only people who want to help will buy it, and while that is true, its the fact they kept shoving down our throats that a great game takes time, and they would rather make a complete game for all to love as opposed to an unfinished one is kind of ironic considering everything above. We are now consumers, costumers, and especially since gamescom the devs don't even seem to take many criticisms seriously, so what makes anyone think that any feature the community unanimously agrees should be reworked or removed actually even be discussed by the devs. Class system receiving mostly negative feedback? Nah, keep it in the game.

Seems like this early access is just a way to fill their pockets, because if they actually stood by what they said, they would put this game out as an open beta, get all hands on deck for maximum bug extermination. Heck, or even just a closed beta to a few thousand chosen members to dispatch bugs. Especially with what they descried to be the main staples of the game, this EA title is looking more and more like a glorified warband mod as opposed to a full different game.

This game isn't a kickstarter, so why is it being treated as one?


 
Pretty sure "Early Access" and "Feature complete game" do not go together in the same sentence.

You cannot expect a feature complete game when it is coming out in Early Access
 
I think you got a point there, it's really ironic to take forever to do a game and then decide to go early access.

But it is what it is, and we may rest assured that they're going to give all the support and lovetm to the early access version for it to become the full version.
 
There are issues with the game, why there is a closed beta.

There will be an early access to finalise some things that still need polishing, you'd complain if the game was released with a load of bugs as a full release.

Things will be missing from the EA from the beginning either because they take a lot of time and aren't important to have sorted for the release of early access and can be worked on with time for full release or that the systems missing are complicated, releasing such without proper balance and reassurance the system is complete could break the game and just create many more unnecessary problems and just make the EA unfun.
 
R4MPZY said:
Pretty sure "Early Access" and "Feature complete game" do not go together in the same sentence.

You cannot expect a feature complete game when it is coming out in Early Access

I can if they charge it at full price after saying time and time again that they wanted to release a feature complete game and not an unfinished buggy mess.

Captain Obvious said:
There are issues with the game, why there is a closed beta.

There will be an early access to finalise some things that still need polishing, you'd complain if the game was released with a load of bugs as a full release.

Things will be missing from the EA from the beginning either because they take a lot of time and aren't important to have sorted for the release of early access and can be worked on with time for full release or that the systems missing are complicated, releasing such without proper balance and reassurance the system is complete could break the game and just create many more unnecessary problems and just make the EA unfun.

I understand completely taking out things such as maybe children and inheritance, but reusing settlement scenes and limiting the amount of quests? Though I could be wrong, kingdom management is lacking in the description, as well as rebellion. These would be extremely well received confirmed features as they would be new and or better than warband. Unfortunately, no sign. Idk I just think it would be more effective to make the singleplayer experience that THEY are expecting to be buggy to be free so that they can as many people into the game to drive all those bugs out as opposed to using EA as an opportunity to cash in. This way they can really release the game at full price feature complete like they say. Just like the sandbox M&B is, when the full game does get fully released with mod support and amazing features like dynasties people would be flooding in after experiencing the very little part of the M&B franchise(native). If the situation was different I would fully support EA for a game as complex as bannerlord, but the irony is present and the unfinished game is still being released at full price.
 
After they added some text to the Steam Page I was feeling similarly. Reusing scenes isnt as huge of a deal as removing Kingdom Management or Weapon Crafting. Also it is going to be quite difficult to enjoy the game knowing that key features at early access will be missing. Features that make the entirety of the game fun.  It does not seem appealing to dive into a 600+ day campaign save when a good chunk of core features are not included at launch. At this point my feelings are, get early access for multiplayer and save the single player experience for when kingdom management, weapon crafting, siege weapons and whatever else ends up not being included in the upcoming EA launch are polished and implemented. 
 
I'm honestly more surprised that people DIDN'T see this coming. Honestly it seems to me like the game has been in development hell for quite some time now. Just be glad they decided to bring it to early-access to get feedback from the community so they can finally finish it. Otherwise we'd probably end up with some half-baked product like the original.

I don't really mean this to sound as harsh towards the devs as it probably does. I love the games, I'm very excited for Bannerlord, but after 8 years, it's not unreasonable to be a bit wary or skeptical about the state of the game, either in beta or EA.

Honestly though, the devs clearly care about the community. If they didn't, they would've released the game years ago and taken peoples money without a second thought to how polished and complete the game was. Of course, it could still happen I guess, if you're that cynical.

Regardless of all of this I'm still probably right along with the majority of people, pre-ordering it the moment I can lol
 
Considering that they were talking about getting close to release back in 2016 and even mentioning that they were thinking about maybe releasing it in early access that same year, I think it's safe to say that the game has been in some form of development hell since then.
 
Honest if anything incessant optimism about a game that's not shown enough to reassure worries of vets is the least helpful thing any consumer can give, so I'm glad that you raised these concerns. I, for one, have not seen a single game that's released in early access to have achieved what it had promised; I have accordingly lowered my expectations for all games as a result. Whatever "whining" one might have, it's better to have it known than not. If said "whining" concerns nothing the general player-base cares about than all there is is a thread on a forum wasted; if it is then it's a chance the devs can at least be made known of the matter.
As to your specific concerns with combat, while I am in agreement with your conclusion the current state of the tactical gameplay of Bannerlord, as far as I have seen so far, has been disappointing. However, as to the solutions you and I are of very different opinions. I am of the opinion that the video game A.I. of this generation of games will never reach the level you'd want it to be, and factors seemingly arbitrary must be introduced to compensate. What you seem wonky is what to me the best solution we have. Arbitrary bonuses and penalties to units are needed, for by time constraints the NPCs can never act as "intelligent" as one wants them to be.
 
I think it all ends up in execution. Early access has been labeled as an evil thing by many over the last years due to many companies abusing this.

I myself trust in Taleworlds, I know they wont be abusing this and it will actually end up beneficial for the game but of course nobody has to put faith in any company then again, you dont have to buy it on early access.

Taleworlds isnt promising anything to those who buy the game in early access. For me even this is a proof that they are sincere about their eagerness to use this EA process for the good of the game.

Them selling the game at full price at early access in fact actually a good sign in my opinion No really, I am really honest about this. If they sold it, say, half the price it would mean they try to encourage people to buy it. It would have felt more like they try to rip off the people and they will ignore the game after.

But by doing this they mean: "you arent going to enjoy any discounts by buying this early, so you might as well buy it at full release."
Selling it in full price mean, you will eventually get it full featured, you gonna have to pay the same money but if you want to contribute by giving feedbacks, go on.
 
Why losing hope? Game engine has lot of potential. You can't recognize much of mount and blade with zendar and river pirates with current vanilla mount and blade, It will be the same thing this time with bannerlord, too bad they expected so much time for early access.
 
enemyman said:
Considering that they were talking about getting close to release back in 2016 and even mentioning that they were thinking about maybe releasing it in early access that same year, I think it's safe to say that the game has been in some form of development hell since then.

In 2016 almost everything in the game seems to have been reworked. My guess is that a new manager or project leader was hired, and as often happens in these kinds of organisations, they reshuffled a bunch of stuff to justify their presence. The entire aesthetic of the game was changed, a lot of armour was scrapped, the concept art from 2013 was basically thrown out the window and new game mechanics emerged which were oversimplifications of older systems (there is a difference between a system and a mechanic).

Combine this with the fact that they switched to a new rendering method in 2014 and it becomes obvious why it took almost 10 years to make a game that still looks pretty bad by modern standards.
 
I actually don’t want to play the early access, because I’d like my first walkthrough of the game to feel immersive. Reused town scenes and lack of quests doesn’t persuade me to pay for early access.

I’ll happily try out the mp beta though.
 
Maybe i missed something , but where you guys got that the game will be fully priced at EA launch ?

KhergitLancer99 said:
Them selling the game at full price at early access in fact actually a good sign in my opinion No really, I am really honest about this.


Sorry , but i respectfully disagree.

"Early Access" means for the Customer a potentially bugged and -Not Final- product. Charging a full price on something unfinished is just not right.

 
klinGiii said:
Maybe i missed something , but where you guys got that the game will be fully priced at EA launch ?

KhergitLancer99 said:
Them selling the game at full price at early access in fact actually a good sign in my opinion No really, I am really honest about this.


Sorry , but i respectfully disagree.

"Early Access" means for the Customer a potentially bugged and -Not Final- product. Charging a full price on something unfinished is just not right.

You will eventually get your completed game. Ha, you may not trust in the devs thats another thing. If you dont, you shouldnt anyway.
I find it worse when devs promise dlcs, charging less money.

Because when this is the case you ,for the sake of things I listed above, ignore how much you trust into the developers. For me, this is abusing.

I remember Total War:Attila's launch. It wasnt an early Access game but its pre order policy is sth similiar to this example but just worse because in that you dont even get to test what it is like.

They promised a **** book about Attila the Hun. (Me being a more nationalist those early teen years, even I thought of pre ordering it, a man such as me WHO is so against pre-order(never did it anyway :wink:))
They also promised a double-sided poster features original Total War: ATTILA campaign map artwork on one side, and a comprehensive playable faction reference guide on the other.

But WAY MOORE important than maybe both of these combined they promised Viking Forefathers dlc. Jutes, Geats and Danes. You know, just like now people used to be crazy about Vikings back in 2013 too.

Of course everyone pre-ordered it(not me thanks to my exam week  :wink:, though I bought it later on for the sake of Huns  :meh:) and the game turned out to be a mess.
Those people were tricked into buying the game for the advantages they were promised. If I recall right CA even said, they will never later on sell Viking Forefathers as a dlc but only a pre-order one time chance(they did make it a dlc, it was just to fool more people into preordering, making them sweat over the odd that they will ever be able to have the complete game later on) Many people didnt fall for it and expected it to be a dlc but even them were rightly aware that it would cost a lot more to buy it afterwards.

And indeed such policies showed their purpose; the game was CRAP, CA knew it, wanted to get as many on train before it became obvious, for this many gifts and presents if not discount to full price, fans were promised an economical advantage after all.

So what I am trying to say is Taleworlds doesnt smoke the sky with such economical advantages to get as many people on wagon. They simply by giving no advantage show that they trust in their game and we will like it at the end. The only reason one may want to buy it early access a) impatient and wants to play it early b)can give feedback on SP(you can already give feedback on MP if you have beta).

If you are neither impatient or arent interested in giving feedback, there is absolutely no reason for you to get the EA. You wont miss anything, you wont pay extra Money, you wont get a fancy book etc.

This shows they are confident with their game.

Taleworlds: You wont get any advantage over buying it in EA. If you dont trust the game to be good then you can wait for the full release.

Creative Assembly: Sure, you can always buy the game at full release after you be sure it is solid but dont forget you are going to have to pay more for Viking forefathers dlc and you will never get your fancy book or poster. 
 
People with experience of OG M&B and Warband's early days should have no problem with Early Access, as Taleworlds has in the past proven to be capable of doing a whole lot of good with it.
The question is, is this still that same Taleworlds? It depends heavily on how much they're willing to address community concerns.
 
AmateurHetman said:
I actually don’t want to play the early access, because I’d like my first walkthrough of the game to feel immersive.
[...]

My reason is telling me the same thing. But I'm sure I won't be able to resist early access. It should be fine for Bannerlord though, as it'll stay interesting for a number of playthroughs.
 
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