{} Australia & New Zealand Multiplayer Community Thread {}

[Sir Bogan]

You too Bogan. Liver still intact? 

I did really well giving up the grog for over six months. Dropped 30 plus kilos. Last few months.... meh. Just a speed bump. Domestic issues... but I won't elaborate. Thanks for asking though.

Sad that MP seems to have changed for the worse. I uninstalled when I could not see a single Aussie server I knew... was looking for TDG or KoS or such. Ahhhh... the memories... Let's hope Bannerlord reignites a bit of nostalgic fun. Would love to get destroyed by such clans as Keen, KoS, TDH.... and of course SPLH... ha ha! 

 

[Sundeki]

You too Bogan. Liver still intact? 

I did really well giving up the grog for over six months. Dropped 30 plus kilos. Last few months.... meh. Just a speed bump. Domestic issues... but I won't elaborate. Thanks for asking though.

Nah, I was just poking fun, most of my memories of early Warband were me throwing temper tantrums and you being ****faced chuckling in the background. Funny times.

But yeah nah, good for you on the early successes buddy.

 

[yedrellow]

You too Bogan. Liver still intact? 

I did really well giving up the grog for over six months. Dropped 30 plus kilos. Last few months.... meh. Just a speed bump. Domestic issues... but I won't elaborate. Thanks for asking though.

Sad that MP seems to have changed for the worse. I uninstalled when I could not see a single Aussie server I knew... was looking for TDG or KoS or such. Ahhhh... the memories... Let's hope Bannerlord reignites a bit of nostalgic fun. Would love to get destroyed by such clans as Keen, KoS, TDH.... and of course SPLH... ha ha! 

Understandable, but it has been 7 years since you left. The only remaining players from TGD are Roman, Me and Munby, but only Roman still wears the tags. I for example have probably worn 5 or 6 different tags in that time. Clans/scrims aren't too active atm unfortunately. We tried to revive it last year, but we ran in to a situation where LK wanted full non-limited scrims, WoP wanted melee group fights, the 88th people (the clan with the mixed NW/native trolls) thought LK was too stacked and didnt want to fight us, and a few of the other clans were undermanned. Essentially they all just disbanded and now very few people want to do anything clan related until bannerlord.

Regardless, a lot has happened in that 7 years, and the game has moved on a lot in general. A lot of the new mechanics discovered since KEEN abandoned the game means that a lot has changed. Unfortunately, a large % of the playerbase has abandoned the game in general, so you have this weird eclectic mix of completely new players with no chance of fighting properly, against people that have thousands of hours that have been following the game for years.

No one can teach them because it would take a ridiculous amount of time to get them up to scratch, and the game being mostly dead means that time would probably be wasted.

Even those players with thousands of hours start to rust on the execution side of the game just because it's impossible to play the amount of hours per day that used to be possible with higher server activity.

 

[Goris]

Even those players with thousands of hours start to rust on the execution side of the game just because it's impossible to play the amount of hours per day that used to be possible with higher server activity.

This is what ruins it for me the most; every time I've played Warband in the last 5 years or so, it has felt like everyone is slightly worse than the last time I played. Myself included, obviously. Who really wants to keep fighting lesser versions of the same 5 players?

I think it was around 2013-2015 when there was a solid duel gang on GoN_duels, and it was fun watching people like indi and yed try to push the boundaries of what could be achieved. Almost every night we had like ten actual decent players come on to duel for hours. If Bannerlord sucks, we definitely need a gon duels revival

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

A lot of the new mechanics discovered since KEEN abandoned the game means that a lot has changed.

Like what?

 

[Goris]

A lot of the new mechanics discovered since KEEN abandoned the game means that a lot has changed.

Like what?

Could be wrong, but I'm guessing he's referring to things like low aimed insta 1h left swings and lolfeint/sky-feinting? There have definitely been meta changes, people were still finding new ways to kill each other even after 2011 or whenever KEEN quit, at least in 1v1 anyway.

 

[yedrellow]

This is what ruins it for me the most; every time I've played Warband in the last 5 years or so, it has felt like everyone is slightly worse than the last time I played. Myself included, obviously. Who really wants to keep fighting lesser versions of the same 5 players?

There is a decent level of duelling form amongst terror, aoife, Leo and myself at the moment. However obviously we'd be better still if we could fight constantly rather than sporadically. The mechanical knowledge is still increasing even if the mechanical polish is sort of being limited by playtime. I'd think of it as analogous to still finding new speedrun routes, but not having the time to grind them out to an optimised time.

Also lag is still a major limiter unfortunately, the servers themselves have lag issues, people on ADSL are having lag issues because of windows 10/ mobile phones, people on nbn are having lag issues because of cvc, it is probably the laggiest time in warband history.

A lot of the new mechanics discovered since KEEN abandoned the game means that a lot has changed.

Like what?

A lot more abuse of stun mechanics is the main part. So unblockable counters from stabs in the form of stun-slash or stun stab. Stun-attacks through shields in 2v1 etc.

Stabs were refined a lot especially for 1h. Especially because of the development of stab-counters, stabs were developed in to a baiting tool to hit people attempting stun-strikes. Stabs were always alluring because of the quick time to hit potential, but that has been refined to 1h now.

Better timing attacks. Attacks out of tempo are a far more defined part of the game now than they used to be circa 2011. Openings in general are a better understood concept.

Turkish kicks (meaning blocking with shield or downblocking at same time as kicking) are an understood part of the game rather than an oddity (dependent on ping).

Left-swing efficiency increased massively, firstly with hilt-slashes, then with attack by inverse mouse adoption (for some players)

Multi-hit combos are better defined. The default spear ones were always obvious, but ones with non-stumbling weapons were discovered combined with terrain. Basically preventing post-hit knockback to be backwards lets us multi-hit now. Non-spear multihit is still difficult to pull off in 1v1, but is still very plausible in ganks.  This is still being developed.

Comboing thuds in to attack series. Deliberate stab thuds that can be transitioned in to another attack series.

Foot drag overheads in 2h.

Unblockable chambers against shielders (ping dependent, risky, but still unblockable sidestrikes).

A very large improvement in anti-cav from spear+shield adoption.

There's a bit more, but the point is that the game has developed quite a lot

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

The parts of that that I understand what you're on about (the non-jargony parts) aren't exactly new since 2011, though I guess afaik people didn't deliberately train to exploit all of them, or if they did, they failed. A lot of that stuff only came up kind of rarely, despite being pretty good.

It's true though, from what I've seen, that there was a meta playstyle influenced by early clans, especially KEEN. Without that influence, other techniques and preferences have gained a lot more traction. I guess as kind of the last remaining diehard WB player, you've probably stepped into that role yourself, your own progress having a big influence on the meta (along with contamination from the NW meta).

Could be wrong, but I'm guessing he's referring to things like low aimed insta 1h left swings and lolfeint/sky-feinting? There have definitely been meta changes, people were still finding new ways to kill each other even after 2011 or whenever KEEN quit, at least in 1v1 anyway.

I wouldn't exactly call that a mechanical discovery, but yeah, I remember when a bunch of players started emphasising that up and down stuff. I think it was big in c-rpg before it spilled into native. Did it originate from the animation changes in that mod?

 

[pera]

u forgot bump stabs, bump stabs OP

 

[Avarthon]

...having a big influence on the meta (along with contamination from the NW meta).

No wonder no one uses their left and right attacks/blocks on native. It also explains why everyone uses awlpikes and runs around in lines on pub battles, lines up, and throws their javs simultaneously.
but seriously i doubt NW had any impact on the meta above the average level.

 

[yedrellow]

...having a big influence on the meta (along with contamination from the NW meta).

No wonder no one uses their left and right attacks/blocks on native. It also explains why everyone uses awlpikes and runs around in lines on pub battles, lines up, and throws their javs simultaneously.
but seriously i doubt NW had any impact on the meta above the average level.

Awlpikes are insane weapons though, for ganking or anti-cav.

NW had 0 impact. If anything, native players screwing around when bored in NW servers built NW, while NW players basically permanently remained irrelevant in native.

Crpg helped discovery of stun-abuse because of the wider character/weapon stat variation, but I wouldn't say it directly affected native meta. Also, I guarantee you that most of those mechanics mentioned definitely weren't a thing in 2011.  Bump stabs were always a thing though, Sundeki and Minsc were using it as far as I am aware before I even bought the game (2010).

Hilt-slashes (downward angled left swings) was a late 2011 thing, but became standard in 2012. It didn't really bleed from crpg, it was just what came from the duel servers of the time. The feinting style that goris refers to was 2012 meta. Though as far as I am aware, Goris was an attack by inverse mouse user back then as well (same as indigo), which led to that angling being popular.

Anyway the point is that the game is still developing even if it's dead, and mechanical polish is a separate issue from mechanical knowledge. We're progressing on knowledge, but rusting on polish. In some respects the increased mechanical knowledge helps counter the loss of polish, and I don't necessarily agree with the idea that players were all better in the past.  This is unless you're referring to those that play DM, but they have always been a lost cause.

In some respects this attempt to discover new mechanics is just practice for the discovery of mechanics in bannerlord, as there is very little actual point to it in the current climate.

 

[Avarthon]

In some respects this attempt to discover new mechanics is just practice for the discovery of mechanics in bannerlord, as there is very little actual point to it in the current climate.

yeah no.
It's bannerlord which is the lost cause, and warband which we play and improve on because it is fun.

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

The latest player feedback on Bannerlord (they let a couple of little known casual let's players give it a crack last year) suggests that the fighting feels really bad, but they may have improved it since then. Imo the fighting in WB felt pretty awful for a fair while after being used to the original M&B, so a couple of casual opinions are probably no huge cause for panic.

Worst case scenario, it could just be modded to emulate WB with prettier graphics, along with other new features like custom weapons and destructable fortifications... though we all know that most players will only ever try native.

 

[Goris]

I wouldn't exactly call that a mechanical discovery, but yeah, I remember when a bunch of players started emphasising that up and down stuff. I think it was big in c-rpg before it spilled into native. Did it originate from the animation changes in that mod?

I think so, I noticed a few cRPG players changing to inverse attack direction and trying different things with feints, probably as a result of the reduced turn rate and restricted stab animations. Native feints definitely aren't as useful in cRPG.

Don't get me wrong yed, I know there are still good players around, but like you said, people have internet problems, the servers feel like trash, and no one plays regularly enough to really get close to their peak. TB for example, a couple years ago he was legitimately difficult to beat, but when I played a bit last year and we duelled it was just constant bad blocks and missed attack cancels from both of us, mistakes that weren’t as frequent previously. I think there’s some evidence on his YT channel =^P. Maybe things have improved since then? Either way, I can see why people are turned off current Aus warband, with server issues and sporadic activity.

 

[Sir Bogan]

All good Sundeki. I'm glad you still have fond memories of playing Warband all those years ago. You might have been giggling at my antics, but I was most probably cursing you for destroying me... not an uncommon thing. Did I ever beat you one on one? Fluke if I did. I just loved the fact that the majority of players were playing just for the shear enjoyment of the game. As Yed said about it doesn't matter about the hours played, practice helps. I actually uninstalled the game during a move... reinstalled and found I was getting owned in single player. So I decided MP..no hope. I'll just wait for Bannerlord and see what happens. Hope I'm not 50 by then... 

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

Singleplayer can be challenging. I generally only recommend it for those skilled enough to use ranged weapons in deathmatch.

 

[Munby]

sir bogan!!!

 

[yedrellow]

The latest player feedback on Bannerlord (they let a couple of little known casual let's players give it a crack last year) suggests that the fighting feels really bad, but they may have improved it since then. Imo the fighting in WB felt pretty awful for a fair while after being used to the original M&B, so a couple of casual opinions are probably no huge cause for panic.

Worst case scenario, it could just be modded to emulate WB with prettier graphics, along with other new features like custom weapons and destructable fortifications... though we all know that most players will only ever try native.

There are two potential issues with bannerlord. The first is that the combat may have been slowed to appease those who dislike high level gameplay, and then there's the potential of low-skill free hits that may creep in to the game. The shield bash mechanic for example has the potential to be far more oppressive than kick, as crpg shows. Both the problems of slow combat and easy free hits were added in to Napoleonic Wars after one of its first patches, so there is precedence for this. While there are free hits in warband, each of them carry significant risk to perform, or require an opponent to make an error.

We know that cleaving attacks, weapon balance and shield bash mechanics exist, so it is obvious that the game is going to be catered to those who felt intimidated by warband. Cleaving attacks destroys the group combat skill-ceiling. Weapon balance cuts down on the allowable moves with every weapon, and shield bash is a break block mechanic that creates a shortcut around getting passed people's defense.

There is reason to be worried, as even though it is not in player hands, most of the time developers in early life of a melee game nerf down or slow the mechanics of successful players until they no longer bother. I don't think there has been a single instance of a developer going the other way and speeding the game up.

Maybe things have improved since then? Either way, I can see why people are turned off current Aus warband, with server issues and sporadic activity.

Warbad went down recently because the server provider randomly turned in to a laggy mess. Honestly there doesn't seem to be a single server provider in Australia that can actually deliver on a non-laggy server. It is extremely frustrating to say the least. I don't know the solution to finding a decent server provider, but honestly it seems impossible. In terms of your comments on player-skill, there is definitely some rust sneaking in, but the main frustration isnt with the primary duellists, but the fact that once you get away from that group the skill level drops off a massive cliff.

There is no way for new players to learn this game now, it's impossible. There are also a lot of players that just got stuck in that permanent DM mindset and would rather votekick or troll than learn the game. I partially cant even blame them, there is literally not enough server activity for them to learn the game. The funnel that used to turn new players in to passable and eventually competitive players was shut off a while ago now, and now the effects of that has really been felt. Old players have left, and new players (despite small in number) have all failed to progress in any way to even come close to replacing them in any fashion.

The people who used to seed servers are now all working full-time by now as far as I can tell. Without seeders, the game is dead.

 

[Munby]

what a game

 

[pera]

DEAD