Archers in 1.5

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Metafa: OMG Taleworlds! Don’t make the game faster! And twitcher!!! That will appeal to the 12 year olds!!! Nooooooo

Also Metafa: Taleworlds!!? You made archery slower??? And take longer to aim?? That is terrible noooo. How could you make?? The game slower???


The new archery could be tweaked slightly, but archers are still extremely good as a class.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Metafa: OMG Taleworlds! Don’t make the game faster! And twitcher!!! That will appeal to the 12 year olds!!! Nooooooo

Also Metafa: Taleworlds!!? You made archery slower??? And take longer to aim?? That is terrible noooo. How could you make?? The game slower???


The new archery could be tweaked slightly, but archers are still extremely good as a class.

With archery I can shoot when I am ready, not when some kid or dude or whatever on the other end raped his own fingers.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Metafa: OMG Taleworlds! Don’t make the game faster! And twitcher!!! That will appeal to the 12 year olds!!! Nooooooo

Also Metafa: Taleworlds!!? You made archery slower??? And take longer to aim?? That is terrible noooo. How could you make?? The game slower???


The new archery could be tweaked slightly, but archers are still extremely good as a class.
You can still hold the bow drawn for an eternity and it doesnt open. If there was only a small window, you would need to time your shot. This way it would be more immersive and not all bows felt like xbows.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
You can still hold the bow drawn for an eternity and it doesnt open. If there was only a small window, you would need to time your shot. This way it would be more immersive and not all bows felt like xbows.

This is what I love about Internet arguing. If I say I want to take my time - it is assumed I will hold the bow for 10 minutes. If I say I want to shoot a bow quickly - it is assumed I should be able to just do everything else as fast as humanly possible, too. Sure you didn't miss a nuance? And shooting a bow at my rythm and reacting to the mele rythms of others is maybe quite different?
 
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Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
This is what I love about Internet arguing. If I say I want to take my time - it is assumed I will hold the bow for 10 minutes. If I say I want to shoot a bow quickly - it is assumed I should be able to just do everything else as fast as humanly possible, too. Shooting a bow at my rythm and reacting to the mele rythms of others is maybe quite different?
Wasnt really refering directly to your post. They nerfed archers on the wrong end.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Wasnt really refering directly to your post. They nerfed archers on the wrong end.

Ah now I get it. Well, I was referring to what you quoted actually, so sorry for misreading or let's say for misdirecting my answer. What you propose I think is quite sensible (if I read it correctly). If I hold the bow too long I have to concentrate too hard on keep it open, afaik these things could be quite heavy to bend. So a smaller time window with more accuracy I would certainly find much more acceptable and arguably more realistic.
 
Archers are gimmicks in this update. Cannot imagine this having been a serious attempt at balancing.

Did anybody clip Rhine getting a Pentakill as Archer in our scrim yesterday?

Pico went 12-2-6 during the first set. As an archer. The class is still very effective. You just have to hold a button for 2 more seconds. I’d rather only have to hold it for one extra seconds, but not be able to hold it for as long, but whatever.
 

CdJrcxx

Sergeant at Arms
NW
Archers are gimmicks in this update. Cannot imagine this having been a serious attempt at balancing.

The new update so far has been great in my opinion for balancing the infantry/archer relationship. Archers now have to worry about getting pushed instead of in the previous updates archers arguably become more dangerous the closer you get. A few reasons why in previous patches archers were too dangerous:

1. Kick shoot meta - harder to pull off in new update.
2. Kiting - Archers cannot kite as effectively because they need time to aim their shots now. It was ridiculous before, an archer could just keep running, jumping away and foot shot you.
3. Archers being able to flick too easily close range. What I mean by this is at close range if an enemy infantry turned you even slightly so your shield wasn't perfectly faced at the archer it was very simple to just shoot the small open angle.

There were more bizarre things archers were capable of but seeing as how most of those are gone now I think I've acknowledged enough. In this new update archers now have to pay more attention to where they are standing to not be put in danger and the slower shooting rate will really separate the skilled shooters from people that are just really good at throwing arrows at every .5 second opening.

Did anybody clip Rhine getting a Pentakill as Archer in our scrim yesterday?

Pico went 12-2-6 during the first set. As an archer. The class is still very effective. You just have to hold a button for 2 more seconds. I’d rather only have to hold it for one extra seconds, but not be able to hold it for as long, but whatever.

And this. RCC archers really disassembled in a scrim just last night. I see archer players that are still shining, but instead of just being absolute machine guns I see them being more intelligent.
 
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metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Did anybody clip Rhine getting a Pentakill as Archer in our scrim yesterday?

Pico went 12-2-6 during the first set. As an archer. The class is still very effective. You just have to hold a button for 2 more seconds. I’d rather only have to hold it for one extra seconds, but not be able to hold it for as long, but whatever.

Oww oww, some dude you know killed people with it. :facepalm: Internet arguing lesson 2

The new update so far has been great in my opinion for balancing the infantry/archer relationship. Archers now have to worry about getting pushed instead of in the previous updates archers arguably become more dangerous the closer you get. A few reasons why in previous patches archers were too dangerous:

1. Kick shoot meta - harder to pull off in new update.
2. Kiting - Archers cannot kite as effectively because they need time to aim their shots now. It was ridiculous before, an archer could just keep running, jumping away and foot shot you.
3. Archers being able to flick too easily close range. What I mean by this is at close range if an enemy infantry turned you even slightly so your shield wasn't perfectly faced at the archer it was very simple to just shoot the small open angle.

There were more bizarre things archers were capable of but seeing as how most of those are gone now I think I've acknowledged enough. In this new update archers now have to pay more attention to where they are standing to not be put in danger and the slower shooting rate will really separate the skilled shooters from people that are just really good at throwing arrows at every .5 second opening.

1. Never seen this. I doubt it's a thing. Could just be prevented completely with some kind of cooldown between kicking and bending your bow.
2. They were already made slower (although having less armor but whatever).
3. They should be able to hit whatever is not covered. Everything else is just mele-bias galore.

I disagree with your assessment of good balance. Archers should be worse at mele, they shouldn't be Jackie Chan at close range, but up until the point you get to them they're at advantage. Everything else is just toying around. Inf should be at an advantage in formation, yes! There should be formation in MP (like overhead shieldwall) which participating in made artificially easy (and to break out just as easily). That's how you could make sure archers don't land shots (and fights are potentially more intense), that's how inf should be buffed. The way it is done now is completely uncreative and looks weird all over.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Imagine shieldwall in skirmish :ROFLMAO:

Imagine all kinds of dumbasses running around, not speaking the same language, not being cognitively or physically able to make themselves understood with hands or feet but somehow having the same military goals 🤣
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
Imagine all kinds of dumbasses running around, not speaking the same language, not being cognitively or physically able to make themselves understood with hands or feet but somehow having the same military goals 🤣
Jihad?
 

CdJrcxx

Sergeant at Arms
NW
Oww oww, some dude you know killed people with it. :facepalm: Internet arguing lesson 2



1. Never seen this. I doubt it's a thing. Could just be prevented completely with some kind of cooldown between kicking and bending your bow.
2. They were already made slower (although having less armor but whatever).
3. They should be able to hit whatever is not covered. Everything else is just mele-bias galore.

I disagree with your assessment of good balance. Archers should be worse at mele, they shouldn't be Jackie Chan at close range, but up until the point you get to them they're at advantage. Everything else is just toying around. Inf should be at an advantage in formation, yes! There should be formation in MP (like overhead shieldwall) which participating in made artificially easy (and to break out just as easily). That's how you could make sure archers don't land shots (and fights are potentially more intense), that's how inf should be buffed. The way it is done now is completely uncreative and looks weird all over.

Well in captain mode yes, there is formations. I assume we're talking about skirm/TDM. In these modes teamwork does not come in formations because you would die if you tried to move in a way so predictable.

Archers should be worse at melee this is true, but I think right now its not in too terrible of a spot. The issue is that in the previous patch archers did not really need to worry largely about their positioning because of how quickly they could knock an arrow and tag any cav that comes close or just outrun infantry.

You are also right they should be able to hit what is not covered, I agree. That is why you try as an infantry to point the enemy's flanks and back to your archers. The issue is it simply was too easy, anyone could tag even slight openings and with the shooting speed it was at and even after getting tagged the infantry would have near no time to put himself in a good position to ward off the other infantry before another arrow is coming his way. It is still possible for the archer to do this, just not 100% of the time now with the lower accuracy at half draw.
 
Oww oww, some dude you know killed people with it. :facepalm: Internet arguing lesson 2



1. Never seen this. I doubt it's a thing. Could just be prevented completely with some kind of cooldown between kicking and bending your bow

This just shows how completely Ill informed you are.

It’s kind of unfair for the people who actually know what their talking about when someone like you grandstands about your opinion when you have absolutely no idea how the game works, and therefore can’t accurately assess the changes which Taleworlds makes. It’s ok to say “well this is how I WANT the game to work!” But complaining about balance changes when you lack a fundamental understanding of why those changes were made hurts the entire dev process. Kick shooting was 1000% a thing. Taleworlds recognized this and changed the shooting mechanics so that it’s no longer a balance issue.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Metafa, quick question. Do you think in a 6v6 game mode we should line up in formations?

I think so. It should be a kind of snap option to align to it up until the point any portion of it is involved in a battle, you could participate or not.
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
I think so. It should be a kind of snap option to align to it up until the point any portion of it is involved in a battle, you could participate or not.
this is why you don't get to decide which changes the game needs :smile:
 
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