Lorcalus
This thread is not as technical as headline suggessts but it is actually overview of main game activities based on my playstyle and likes/dislikes.
Basically, core gameplay loop of Bannerlord can be defined as next:
Recruit army --- fight ---take loot --- build bigger army --- fight bigger army
Nothing wrong with this. Battles are the main thing of Bannnerlord. There is nothing better than to crash armies together, lead your troops etc… There are certain problems but those are more balance wise than design. All in all, main gameplay loop works great and provides a lot of fun but without a good supplementary activities and progression, battles would get stale quickly as they would be nothing more than fighting (like custom battles get boring quickly on its own even if you like battles very much).
Current (main) Supplementary activities:
Trade; Pretty boring and tedious. Perks are the only incentive to level the skill. Outside of funding your party, there is no other interaction available to sink money in.
Workshops; Only purpose is to give you revenue. Buy and forget mechanic. No interactions available. Dont really affect any of your choices.
Raiding; Actually nice feature but too punishing. Dont really have that much devastating effect on enemy. Great for breaking monotomy.
Quests; Only reactive types. Design behind quests make them non interesting from the start. Main questline not really that great-not incorporating more different game mechanics into it.
Clan system; Very basic. No special intaractions to guide the members actions. No dissagrements inside clans. Members always supportive. No options to disintegrate the clan from inside. No clan rivalries. No culture differences.
Kingdom management; Policies are nice but otherwise no other ways to differentiate kindoms. Every kingdom basically democracy. Voting is actually nice but there are really no issues to vote on (variance).
Leveling; Nice design but tedious at higher level. No incentive to focus on some skills. Boring ways of leveling for some skills. No alternative ways to gain exp.
Supplementary activities on its own seem a little empty but their weakness become really clear during playthroughs.
Early part is quite good. You start with certain stats. Recruit first soldiers. Start fighting smaller battles. Get accustomed to trade, start some quests and getting yourself aquinted with world standings. In my opinion this part is what is supposed to be. Intruductory with clear options of progressions and things to do. Nothing boring or stale until now. Early part actually doesnt need any additions and is actually what early game of complete game should be like.
Middle part of the game is when it starts lacking. You usually start connecting yourself with certain faction, start a caravan, buy workshop for supplementing your income. Everything starts good but this is where quests starts lacking .Variety aside the problem is their reactive nature. There are no repeateable quests which would focus on single thing. THere are no quests that would take you on a longer journey with certain goal in mind. Caravans and workshops are nice when you first start using them but dont provide any additional interactions. Design idea is basically buy and forget (if they make profit). There is some progression in terms of battles. From aligning with your faction and trying to get a first fief is quite interesting. Every battle gets you close, you know why you need influence and renown. When you actually get a fief it is quite an acomplismhment.
After that, game is quite tedious and boring. Voting is nice but only fort he first vote (since its something new). Getting a vote is not really an accomplishment since too many characters can vote. Not really any options to seriously influence any major decisions. Commanding combined armies is great but without a goal they can become purposeless after few great battles. Clan mechanics are basic and dont provide additional gameplay. Expanding the kingdom is nice at start but nothing realy changes (mechanics wise). Because of the level, certain skills become extremly hard to level. You need to seriously grind them and results are lackluster. Getting more fiefs is nice in terms of income but otherewise not. There is no incentive to make grant fiefs to your clan since you dont have control over them (everyone can assemble armies).
Overally looking, mid and late game dont provide incentives or additional mechanics for me to make it interesting. It is true that in sandbox games you make your own story but for that you need a lot of tools/mechanics that game lacks. For example, it is advertised you can play as a merchant, vassal, mercenary etc. But in reality those playstyles are empty. What is point in playing as merchant if the only thing you can do is travel and manually trade. Higher levels dont unlock anything new. You cant pour money into anything really. It is similar with other playstyles. Mercenary gameplay is the least lacking but there is still no purpose in mid to late game. You fight/ raid and help faction grow, but outside of growing your army there are no interactions available.
Example of changes that would make game far more sandbox like and replayable:
Trade; Trading quests that reward trade experience to make leveling more interesting. More interactions that get unlocked when reaching certain levels. A way to influence the game economy/enemy factions with beeing trader. Options to block certain faction caravans from trading in certain cities.
Workshops; Options to upgrade them (a way to pour money somewhere in game).
Raiding; Option to capture residents and transfering them to your fief increasing your militia and possible troop availability while gettin different culture units. Option to create raid patrols from your fief etc.
Quests; Adding different kinds of quests than just reactive ones. Skill quests should exists that helps with leveling certain skills.
Clan system; Differentitation in terms of hierarchy. Giving orders to clans how to behave during wars (defend, join armies, raid etc). Different culture have different demands as clans. Making clan leaders more influential and different from members.
Kingdom management; Adding law system that differentiates betwen kingdoms. Laws define organization, who can vote etc.. Based on Laws in effect certain policies are available. Would make becoming a vassal an important achievment by granting rights to use the system. Possibility of rebellions based on dissagrement of laws in effect etc..
Leveling; Option to level through skill quests that reward skill experience. These quests would make some skills more interesting Adding additional interactions available by reaching certain level in skill.
Neutral locations; Visitable locations around the whole map. Froam oases to ruins and other locations. Certain companions can be found there along with different resources you can find and take. Optios to link quests to these locations. Way to learn game lore in these locations by delivering artefacts to NPC in cities that can exchanged them for lore scrolls. Great way to break monotomy.
Hierarchy system; Clear distinction betwen rank. Adding count-duke-king example of hierarchy. Should be an upgrade of current clan system. Clan leaders should be like dukes. Assembling army is based on rank –king can assemble all, dukes can call just their vassals. Assigning marshal should be an important function. Becoming duke is possible only by having high enough clan rank and asking king. Incentive to give away fiefs to create vassals. King should delegate new fiefs to dukes (clan leaders) than they would delegate them to their unlanded vassals. Cant get more fiefs unles you are duke tier vassal.
Possible new Gameplay experience:
Based on the example of previous possible additions, game would become far more playable and interesting. In terms of early gameplay nothing much would change since that part is already great.
Everything else would change significantly. There would be important to know which clan leader you offer vassalage to. YOu would have an incentive to help the clan you are vassal of. Getting a fief is just small step. Your choices who to help would have big effect. If you wanted to become Duke tier vassal you would need to level clan level. This way it becomes more interesting since you know why and what you need to grind. Each rank gives you new way to affect/interact with game. This way allows you to play game only as a small vassal if you want to. With complex law system you can mould every kingdom into what you want. Getting a voting right is based on laws. If you become Duke tier it allows you to start revolts etc. Since Dukes have total control over your vassals every fief you get significantly incresed power base.
If constant battles would make it boring you have a lot of interesting other options to do. Neutral locations would provide some exploration feeling. These locations could be anything from ruins, oases, abandoned mines etcc. To make it more interesting they could contain some resources you could pick, ancient bits o lore or special companions that can only be meet there. If nothing else it would greatly reduce the stalenees of some chores. For example, you want to trade across whole map which ussually meant a boring/long gride. With these new interactions you could now, while you are on the way, visit all netrual locations, do some skill quests, etc.
Most importantly it would allow player a different amount of playstyles. Playing as a vassal gives you a ton of interactions and true hierarchy system. Playing as trader would finally give you something to focus on, while with a certain perk could allow you to bank on the playstyle and buy yourself a number of vassals etc.. With skill quests, the leveling itself becomes far more enjoyable and interesting and if anytime game become stale, you can always visit those netral locations and add a touch of exploration to the game.
This is a view on the game from my perspective and what I like /dislike, and especially how certain mechanics affect my personal playstyle. Hope this thread starts constructive disscussion. This thread is meant to be more of a feedback than suggestion so I posted it here.
If anyone wants to read my personal suggestions for better game:
Kingdom management, Settlement management, Clans, Smithing, Diplomacy, Feasts and much more
Skill Quests and Alternative leveling
Basically, core gameplay loop of Bannerlord can be defined as next:
Recruit army --- fight ---take loot --- build bigger army --- fight bigger army
Nothing wrong with this. Battles are the main thing of Bannnerlord. There is nothing better than to crash armies together, lead your troops etc… There are certain problems but those are more balance wise than design. All in all, main gameplay loop works great and provides a lot of fun but without a good supplementary activities and progression, battles would get stale quickly as they would be nothing more than fighting (like custom battles get boring quickly on its own even if you like battles very much).
Current (main) Supplementary activities:
Trade; Pretty boring and tedious. Perks are the only incentive to level the skill. Outside of funding your party, there is no other interaction available to sink money in.
Workshops; Only purpose is to give you revenue. Buy and forget mechanic. No interactions available. Dont really affect any of your choices.
Raiding; Actually nice feature but too punishing. Dont really have that much devastating effect on enemy. Great for breaking monotomy.
Quests; Only reactive types. Design behind quests make them non interesting from the start. Main questline not really that great-not incorporating more different game mechanics into it.
Clan system; Very basic. No special intaractions to guide the members actions. No dissagrements inside clans. Members always supportive. No options to disintegrate the clan from inside. No clan rivalries. No culture differences.
Kingdom management; Policies are nice but otherwise no other ways to differentiate kindoms. Every kingdom basically democracy. Voting is actually nice but there are really no issues to vote on (variance).
Leveling; Nice design but tedious at higher level. No incentive to focus on some skills. Boring ways of leveling for some skills. No alternative ways to gain exp.
Supplementary activities on its own seem a little empty but their weakness become really clear during playthroughs.
Early part is quite good. You start with certain stats. Recruit first soldiers. Start fighting smaller battles. Get accustomed to trade, start some quests and getting yourself aquinted with world standings. In my opinion this part is what is supposed to be. Intruductory with clear options of progressions and things to do. Nothing boring or stale until now. Early part actually doesnt need any additions and is actually what early game of complete game should be like.
Middle part of the game is when it starts lacking. You usually start connecting yourself with certain faction, start a caravan, buy workshop for supplementing your income. Everything starts good but this is where quests starts lacking .Variety aside the problem is their reactive nature. There are no repeateable quests which would focus on single thing. THere are no quests that would take you on a longer journey with certain goal in mind. Caravans and workshops are nice when you first start using them but dont provide any additional interactions. Design idea is basically buy and forget (if they make profit). There is some progression in terms of battles. From aligning with your faction and trying to get a first fief is quite interesting. Every battle gets you close, you know why you need influence and renown. When you actually get a fief it is quite an acomplismhment.
After that, game is quite tedious and boring. Voting is nice but only fort he first vote (since its something new). Getting a vote is not really an accomplishment since too many characters can vote. Not really any options to seriously influence any major decisions. Commanding combined armies is great but without a goal they can become purposeless after few great battles. Clan mechanics are basic and dont provide additional gameplay. Expanding the kingdom is nice at start but nothing realy changes (mechanics wise). Because of the level, certain skills become extremly hard to level. You need to seriously grind them and results are lackluster. Getting more fiefs is nice in terms of income but otherewise not. There is no incentive to make grant fiefs to your clan since you dont have control over them (everyone can assemble armies).
Overally looking, mid and late game dont provide incentives or additional mechanics for me to make it interesting. It is true that in sandbox games you make your own story but for that you need a lot of tools/mechanics that game lacks. For example, it is advertised you can play as a merchant, vassal, mercenary etc. But in reality those playstyles are empty. What is point in playing as merchant if the only thing you can do is travel and manually trade. Higher levels dont unlock anything new. You cant pour money into anything really. It is similar with other playstyles. Mercenary gameplay is the least lacking but there is still no purpose in mid to late game. You fight/ raid and help faction grow, but outside of growing your army there are no interactions available.
Example of changes that would make game far more sandbox like and replayable:
Trade; Trading quests that reward trade experience to make leveling more interesting. More interactions that get unlocked when reaching certain levels. A way to influence the game economy/enemy factions with beeing trader. Options to block certain faction caravans from trading in certain cities.
Workshops; Options to upgrade them (a way to pour money somewhere in game).
Raiding; Option to capture residents and transfering them to your fief increasing your militia and possible troop availability while gettin different culture units. Option to create raid patrols from your fief etc.
Quests; Adding different kinds of quests than just reactive ones. Skill quests should exists that helps with leveling certain skills.
Clan system; Differentitation in terms of hierarchy. Giving orders to clans how to behave during wars (defend, join armies, raid etc). Different culture have different demands as clans. Making clan leaders more influential and different from members.
Kingdom management; Adding law system that differentiates betwen kingdoms. Laws define organization, who can vote etc.. Based on Laws in effect certain policies are available. Would make becoming a vassal an important achievment by granting rights to use the system. Possibility of rebellions based on dissagrement of laws in effect etc..
Leveling; Option to level through skill quests that reward skill experience. These quests would make some skills more interesting Adding additional interactions available by reaching certain level in skill.
Neutral locations; Visitable locations around the whole map. Froam oases to ruins and other locations. Certain companions can be found there along with different resources you can find and take. Optios to link quests to these locations. Way to learn game lore in these locations by delivering artefacts to NPC in cities that can exchanged them for lore scrolls. Great way to break monotomy.
Hierarchy system; Clear distinction betwen rank. Adding count-duke-king example of hierarchy. Should be an upgrade of current clan system. Clan leaders should be like dukes. Assembling army is based on rank –king can assemble all, dukes can call just their vassals. Assigning marshal should be an important function. Becoming duke is possible only by having high enough clan rank and asking king. Incentive to give away fiefs to create vassals. King should delegate new fiefs to dukes (clan leaders) than they would delegate them to their unlanded vassals. Cant get more fiefs unles you are duke tier vassal.
Possible new Gameplay experience:
Based on the example of previous possible additions, game would become far more playable and interesting. In terms of early gameplay nothing much would change since that part is already great.
Everything else would change significantly. There would be important to know which clan leader you offer vassalage to. YOu would have an incentive to help the clan you are vassal of. Getting a fief is just small step. Your choices who to help would have big effect. If you wanted to become Duke tier vassal you would need to level clan level. This way it becomes more interesting since you know why and what you need to grind. Each rank gives you new way to affect/interact with game. This way allows you to play game only as a small vassal if you want to. With complex law system you can mould every kingdom into what you want. Getting a voting right is based on laws. If you become Duke tier it allows you to start revolts etc. Since Dukes have total control over your vassals every fief you get significantly incresed power base.
If constant battles would make it boring you have a lot of interesting other options to do. Neutral locations would provide some exploration feeling. These locations could be anything from ruins, oases, abandoned mines etcc. To make it more interesting they could contain some resources you could pick, ancient bits o lore or special companions that can only be meet there. If nothing else it would greatly reduce the stalenees of some chores. For example, you want to trade across whole map which ussually meant a boring/long gride. With these new interactions you could now, while you are on the way, visit all netrual locations, do some skill quests, etc.
Most importantly it would allow player a different amount of playstyles. Playing as a vassal gives you a ton of interactions and true hierarchy system. Playing as trader would finally give you something to focus on, while with a certain perk could allow you to bank on the playstyle and buy yourself a number of vassals etc.. With skill quests, the leveling itself becomes far more enjoyable and interesting and if anytime game become stale, you can always visit those netral locations and add a touch of exploration to the game.
This is a view on the game from my perspective and what I like /dislike, and especially how certain mechanics affect my personal playstyle. Hope this thread starts constructive disscussion. This thread is meant to be more of a feedback than suggestion so I posted it here.
If anyone wants to read my personal suggestions for better game:
Kingdom management, Settlement management, Clans, Smithing, Diplomacy, Feasts and much more
Skill Quests and Alternative leveling
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