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MArdA TaleWorlds said:

We can comment more detailed if we see the scene. We will enable asserts and warnings in the modding tools soon. This will make sure the tools will give better error messages before crashing.

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OK ive included that in this file.

Is this everything you need?

MArdA TaleWorlds said:

Issue: Hardcoded values on the worldmap that can not be changed
Status: Our answer to the open letter has also listed this as an ongoing task. You can check it here.

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Btw a modder on the total conversion discord called Urist_McAurelian has found a temp fix by coding some dll files to fix the issues with the map height and spawning under the map.

Although the fix works it does require a bit of game and modding knowledge to get it to work and even when I give detailed instructions some people find it hard to get working, I think if you are able to contact this person they will be able to give more details you can find out what the original issue was and how to fix it.

MArdA TaleWorlds said:

Can you send us the scene files?
RAR/ZIP the scene files and upload the RAR/ZIP to upload.taleworlds.com. With the URL of this thread and your username to be written to the description. There are 2 folders located under the below paths with your scene name:

• WOTS\Modules\SandBox\SceneObj
• WOTS\Modules\SandBox\SceneEditData

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MArdA TaleWorlds said:

Can you send us the scene files?
RAR/ZIP the scene files and upload the RAR/ZIP to upload.taleworlds.com. With the URL of this thread and your username to be written to the description. There are 2 folders located under the below paths with your scene name:

• WOTS\Modules\SandBox\SceneObj
• WOTS\Modules\SandBox\SceneEditData

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I’m not 100% sure but when I get this error in DNspy it highlights the error under navmesh.
It’s possible that the game was trying to spawn something on impassable terrain as recently the modding community has created a fix for the map height error and since then I haven’t seen this sandbox corrupted error.
I don’t know if it’s possible that my map corrupted the sandbox dlls somehow but if it happens again I will sent the files over but for now it might be fixed but I haven’t had time to throughly test it

Murat Türe said:

Those factor color slots that you change are being used by the in-mission faction colors, namely the primary and secondary colors. It is normal for the game to override those.

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Sorry for the late reply.
I had forgotten about this.
I’ve since solved it by using some different layers.
I still have some issues where it won’t always come out the same color as I Set it in substance painter (where in the past it always would)
But I’m able to work around it now

Styrian said:

Hey,

I have similar problem as you - my model is invisible both in model viewer and in game (it was crashing too upon equipping it + empty item icon).

As I understood, the problem you faced was the exported Rigg from Tpac Tool that was causing problems?

I export mine (from tpac) as .dae, Type Rigged and then I export (from 3ds max) by having Rigg and skinned items selected (..and _notused suffix at root dummy object and 1st root bone).
I don't understand the part with two skeletons.. did you import body and head into your software to get two?

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I honestly don’t remember as it was a while ago now, it was something to do with importing 2 skeletons by accident and then exporting both as I didn’t know what I was doing at the time

Eärendil Ardamírë said:

You are not bringing any arguments into the discussion, so not really worth the time.

If you think that this is an useful argument in this discussion, I have to disappoint you. I am very well aware of the amount of modders around waiting to get a better grip at modding the game and bringing new features into it. It is however still not their time to shine. The game is in early access, a better modding support shouldn't be expected until full release.

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This is a fair point but do you not agree that if we don’t say something now and get them at least thinking about it, that in 1 or 2 years the majority of modders will have moved on seeing it as a lost cause?

I think it is time for the modders to shine and this doesn’t necessarily mean actually making mods, it also means being recognised as an important part of the community and communicated with in a correct way that makes both parties happy as well as getting our opinions across.

Because let’s face it, if this post is complete ignored (an example only) or we are told “suck it up, wait another 2 years until the game is complete” most modders won’t come back.
A lot of early access games get stuck in early access for longer than that and waiting until the game is nearer completion means that a huge amount of people won’t be there to play it.

I’ve seen it time and time again with many early access games and this is exactly how it starts every single time, some still make it but a lot also don’t.
It always starts with poor communication and features no one wants while other things people are asking for get neglected.


Or do you think that is wrong?

Bloc said:

I know how TW code (or used to code). ?

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Ok ok that’s fair but regardless.
A decent sized part of the community is asking their needs be taken into account and for better communication.
If we don’t, in 2 or 3 years a lot of them would have moved on (some people already are) and people will say we should have made ourselves known sooner.

Now is a good time to make our point before it’s too late which I’ve seen with other games.

They released the mod tools and if they don’t take notice which is what we are asking for, that’s when things go downhill.
Good games grow by listening to their player base, if we just stay silent it doesn’t do anyone any good.
Sometimes priorities need to change and adapt

Bloc said:

And you think this has been done just to cripple the modding community - enforcing your team and other teams?
They probably hardcoded terrain/height-related stuff because they had to link that in their modding tool. This is one of the reasons why they can't always update the modding document - requires maintenance.

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Ha no not at all, it was working fine before that update. So it never had a problem with having to be linked.
In 1.5.4 I had a very stable mod relating to the map, never encountered any issue that would require such a drastic change.
Anyway the point is that making that kind of change doesn’t make sense when It was working perfectly before that, you could argue that they are laying down foundations for something in the future but it’s still a huge blow to myself and other total conversions at least because from our point of view (and a couple of people I’ve spoken to) see it like “if we can’t use this feature to mod we may as well just abandon it” because to some people this is gonna look like we won’t ever be able to mod that thing, when we could before.

Which I brings us to one of the main points:
Communication.
They don’t need to write up a ton of documents, a simple “changed this in modding tools and may affect this”

If I can find a bug in 1 minute of opening the mod tools and see what it will affect, there’s no reason the guys who know the game inside and out can’t make a note when they change something like that.

Bloc said:

Was it all public at the first stage of EA and they suddenly changed classes to internal or something? As far as I know, that never happened. Was it not hardcoded at the beginning and then converted to hardcoded all the sudden? No.

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Actually yes.
The game main map campaign height used to be linked the the map itself.
Suddenly in 1.5.5 when you load a custom map you spawn below the ground and it uses the vanilla game height And cannot be changed.
A group of very talented coders who I worked with from my mod and some others mods all tried together and found it had now been hardcoded into the game almost completely removing the possibily of custom main maps

so there’s at least 1 for you of something suddenly being hardcoded if that’s what your getting at unless I’m misunderstanding what you say.

As someone working on a large mod. It has been sad to see over time some essential modding tools have not been fixed when reports were made a long time ago.
A number of issues are holding back my mod and despite getting together with some of the best modders out there none of us can find workarounds to some issues that I feel should have been addressed months ago.

I hope this post will get the attention it needs in order for us to continue to develop great mods, and is no way a dig at the team behind the game.
It’s just very disappointing for me that so much potential is being lost at this time due to things holding modders back.

MArdA TaleWorlds said:

It would be great if you can open a separate topic about this.
---
Forwarded to the devs again. thanks!

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Sorry for late reply but yeah this was just caused by some xml changes causing issues.


Map height is however is still bugged in latest versions of the game when making changes to the main map and is an issue for a lot of players and anyone trying to mod the main map in 1.5.8 as well and I’ve heard it’s still an issue in 1.5.9 Beta

Callum said:

• Fixed the resize terrain issues.

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Is this the bug that was casuing custom main maps to spawn you below ground?
Are you saying its fixed?

Since its still not on the known issues after nearly 3 months can we assume you have fixed it?

babelfisch said:

If they wanted to abandon the game they would've done it 10 months ago.
/pointless discussion

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No there are plenty of games that continued to make pointless updates for years after the dev team abandoned it after getting money leaving a small team to add things no one wanted

It happens all the time on steam

danEN said:

My god man just look at the poll, accept you're wrong and shut up. I don't care about your crazed conspiracies, I just want the dev's to fix the game before they release it.

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To be fair the vote has nothing to do with a company abandoning a game after getting paid.
This has happened on countless other games and could easily happen here.

And from a modders point of view the game has gotten worse over the last two months, not just worse but a lot of major issues have not even been added to the known bugs for the mod tools in over 2 months (I reported some major bugs on the 24th December but apparently they were known at least a week before that in BETA)

Two months with no bug fixes and not even having them as known bugs is unacceptable plus adding more bugs with each update is getting ridiculous now.
It takes 5mins to go into the tools and find these bugs so it’s not like they are here to reproduce.

It has nothing to do with getting the game stable before fixing the mod tools.
Most of the bugs have nothing to do with game stability and are just that, tools.
For example the terrain painter crashes when used at all, it wouldn’t affect the game at all if it were fixed or not, just modders.
If your going to release mod tools you should be supporting them and not ignoring them so that so many bugs build up that making certain mods is becoming more impossible every update.

Gandamula said:

Enough with Patches, I can live with the game as it is now, but I can't without many of the mods that are getting lost. Modders are obviously giving up, Mods with thousands of downloads are dead. To be honest, the latest Patches add nothing, 1.5.8 is a complete disaster and no one uses it. Launch the game and do a big and tested upgrade in three months, but stop with this nonsense. Everyone is already getting tired of so much uncertainty and instability, there was supposed to be a connection to the game, this is only achieved with stability, not with a constant addition of frustrations.

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I’m gonna pitch in as a modder on a large mod.
One of the main reasons I’ve seen people giving up especially lately is due to the completely broken mod tools that get more broken with every patch.

In 1.5.4 a bug broke any custom maps so you spawn below the ground, messed up terrain painting and disabled the ability to fix it manually.
In 1.5.8 the bug still happens, it’s fine if you want to make a few minor edits but if you want a whole new map it messes with it badly.

Most of the tools to edit custom maps crash the mod tools even still even though the bugs were in 1.5.4

More new bugs were introduced in 1.5.7 such as the model viewer crashing and having to reload or re import assets from before 1.5.7. (Took me 35 hours of leaving my pc on running all the imports for 1800 models and textures)
Because the Tpac files are slightly different and some are incompatible with past 1.5.6.

They also restructured and changed a lot of the xml code meaning a lot of pre 1.5.7 won’t work and entire xmls have to be re written, in a total conversion mod like mine this means almost every file is now useless.

There are tons of other bugs in tools I don’t use too so you can see there isn’t much incentive to continue when it’s basically become a full time job now just to get the mods working.

Since all these bugs have been here since 1.5.4 mostly and have only added each patch with no signs of them being worked on

Callum said:

Hotfix 16/02/21​

Singleplayer​

Crashes

• Fixed a crash that occurred when executing the last non-mercenary lord of a kingdom.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when clicking Ctrl and (+) button on an empty item stack in the inventory.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when switching weapons in the smithy.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when the 'Conspiracy Base of Operations' quest completed with Hideout Boss dead.

Fixes

• Fixed an issue with raid icons appearing after loading a save file.

Multiplayer​

Crashes

• Fixed a crash that could occur when logging in to multiplayer.

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Did you change anything else because that seems like a lot for 1.4gb download.

As after this update it’s causing my map to crash every few minutes, all the files associated with the map are correct and my settings remain the same as they were before the hotfix

None of those things should affect the map

human72 said:

has anyone figured out why even the lightest mods when enabled now for this patch one gets a error log and crash? it seems not even the lightest mods are safe from it and I normally don't do mods on beta games but tried a few to see what they are etc.

when will it after enough time reach stable final release so mods can be stable for the game again?

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If the mod was made for a version 1.5.6 or before it wont work at all most of the time because a lot of the game code was changed.
It means a lot of mods will have to completely re write a lot of it.

For bigger mods like mine it’s an unnecessary addition to the game code that has the exact same result.

Looking at the code a lot of it makes no sense as to why it was changed, some parts of it appear to have been changed just to make modding harder.

MArdA TaleWorlds said:

Are you still experiencing this issue on 1.5.7?

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Yes it still crashes when trying to paint on the main_map scene
I tried on the game’s standard map with no mods enabled