Recruit
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nononono leave it. especially with the way axes now absolutely decimate shields now as they should.
I want to say i LOVE new pugio-blade for this class, and i think an idea of dagger-like fastswords should go even further into other classes/factions
So while I wouldnt call the weapon options OP, the 1st perk slot is abit... weird.
You can:
Replace your 3 javelins that do 40 damage for 6 javelins that do 40 damage.
Replace your 3 javelins that do 40 damage with 3 javelins that do 50 damage.
Replace your 3 javelins that do 40 damage with 3 Javelins that do 40 damage and a Pila that does 113 damage and can be used in melee.
Essentialy, aside from the 'better javelins' scenario you always have 3 javelins that do 40 damage and you get something ontop of that. The better Javelin perk replaces them though and does nothing else ontop of that.
While the Pila can be used in melee as a spear its kinda on the short end of the spectrum for a spear and once you throw it, its gone. Id suggest replacing it with a normal spear perk that replaces the javelins, not is taken alongside the javelins. Maybe the Western short spear or western long spear? Although the Legionary also has the western long spear as an option so id lean towards the western short spear.
Maybe also give the better javelins perk a little damage boost, maybe turn them into jareeds? Because if I can choose for 6 at 40 or 3 at 50 taking the less but higher damage options is generally almost never worth it. Jareeds do 55 damage which is a nice damage boost compared to 40 and could be worth it given that the damage is a fair bit higher.
You can:
Replace your 3 javelins that do 40 damage for 6 javelins that do 40 damage.
Replace your 3 javelins that do 40 damage with 3 javelins that do 50 damage.
Replace your 3 javelins that do 40 damage with 3 Javelins that do 40 damage and a Pila that does 113 damage and can be used in melee.
Essentialy, aside from the 'better javelins' scenario you always have 3 javelins that do 40 damage and you get something ontop of that. The better Javelin perk replaces them though and does nothing else ontop of that.
While the Pila can be used in melee as a spear its kinda on the short end of the spectrum for a spear and once you throw it, its gone. Id suggest replacing it with a normal spear perk that replaces the javelins, not is taken alongside the javelins. Maybe the Western short spear or western long spear? Although the Legionary also has the western long spear as an option so id lean towards the western short spear.
Maybe also give the better javelins perk a little damage boost, maybe turn them into jareeds? Because if I can choose for 6 at 40 or 3 at 50 taking the less but higher damage options is generally almost never worth it. Jareeds do 55 damage which is a nice damage boost compared to 40 and could be worth it given that the damage is a fair bit higher.
Knowing how insistent TaleWorlds can be with balance changes and the upcoming nerfs to all javelin infantry units, perhaps it'd be a good time for me to suggest the following:
New Weapon: Throwing Dagger (Javelin Downgrade)
Quiver of 3, inflicts 40 cut damage on throw, can't be used in melee
Functionality-wise, it'd be identical to the Vlandian Northern Throwing Axe and could be given to players that choose to pick the Pilum as their Perk 1 choice. This would allow the Recruit to still be able to deal a respectable amount of ranged damage against shock troops and other peasant units while still having a throwable anti-cavalry weapon. The main drawback of these throwing daggers would be that they aren't effective against armored opponents and also lack the ability to do bonus damage on headshots.
Figured this would be worth suggesting as I'd like to believe that peasant units should be a viable pick for late joiners to show off their skills rather than exist for the sole purpose of punishing players who die as a 110 or 120 cost unit.
New Weapon: Throwing Dagger (Javelin Downgrade)
Quiver of 3, inflicts 40 cut damage on throw, can't be used in melee
Functionality-wise, it'd be identical to the Vlandian Northern Throwing Axe and could be given to players that choose to pick the Pilum as their Perk 1 choice. This would allow the Recruit to still be able to deal a respectable amount of ranged damage against shock troops and other peasant units while still having a throwable anti-cavalry weapon. The main drawback of these throwing daggers would be that they aren't effective against armored opponents and also lack the ability to do bonus damage on headshots.
Figured this would be worth suggesting as I'd like to believe that peasant units should be a viable pick for late joiners to show off their skills rather than exist for the sole purpose of punishing players who die as a 110 or 120 cost unit.
Bring back the 1h axe please, the swords the recruit gets are so god damn trashy, the only redeeming quality this class has is the pilum. Give him either a half decent weapon or improved armor perk.
this class right now is quite broken imo and a stronger melee weapon is in my opinion absolutely not needed.
Except for the Pilum what is strong on the class exactly ?
Pugio can out-slash some shock troops and the upgraded shield is the same shield used by the Legionary heavy infantry.
That said, i don't think the Recruit will be in a good position for very long due to the upcoming nerfs to the melee proficiencies of javelin infantry and throwing spears acting as a javelin replacement in non-Captain modes. If TaleWorlds commits to these changes, it's likely that the Recruit will go back to acting as punishment for players who die as a Menavlion Infantry.
A medium infantry option for Empire (also to other factions aswell) fixes this problem, here's your axe/mace/good sword and shield combo and somewhat good armor at cheap price, while recruit exists as skirmisher with weak melee still.
I was wrong. Recruit's still a solid pick for the most part, though I feel that with the changes put into 1.6.1, Empire's gonna be a lot more vulnerable to cavalry compared to other factions in the game. Wonder if it'd be worth it to remove the Pilum entirely and have an infantry spear/3 throwing daggers combination perk to replace it?
[CAPTAIN MODE]
I think Recruits are finally solid.
There are 3 non-option perks in Captain Mode, though.
The AI doesn't know the Pugio is fast and this doesn't seem to affect its decision to attack with it, so its fairly useless. AI in this game really struggles in general to hit with short weapons.
Shields already have a HP multiplier in captain mode so there's no real motivation to use the improved shield.
The Pilum is now fairly useless, dealing reliably less damage than the Improved Javelin and the AI seems to have an extremely difficult time hitting with it.
The new glancing mechanics seem to affect short polearms very disfavorably and it can be hard for AI to even flinch an infantryman with it, let alone a horse. Somehow the Improved Javelin acts as a better short spear than the Pilum in all ways but reach.
In every scenario in captain, you should take the Spatha over the other two options.
So the only real decision to be made is whether you take the 10-quiver javelins or the 5-stack better javelins which is largely determined by which map you are on.
I think this is honestly why the RECRUITS AER BAD meme still exists. People don't grok there's only really 2 usable loadouts for Recruits
edit: Also TW pls replace the "More Javelins" perk with a "Sling" perk thank you have a nice day.
I think Recruits are finally solid.
There are 3 non-option perks in Captain Mode, though.
The AI doesn't know the Pugio is fast and this doesn't seem to affect its decision to attack with it, so its fairly useless. AI in this game really struggles in general to hit with short weapons.
Shields already have a HP multiplier in captain mode so there's no real motivation to use the improved shield.
The Pilum is now fairly useless, dealing reliably less damage than the Improved Javelin and the AI seems to have an extremely difficult time hitting with it.
The new glancing mechanics seem to affect short polearms very disfavorably and it can be hard for AI to even flinch an infantryman with it, let alone a horse. Somehow the Improved Javelin acts as a better short spear than the Pilum in all ways but reach.
In every scenario in captain, you should take the Spatha over the other two options.
So the only real decision to be made is whether you take the 10-quiver javelins or the 5-stack better javelins which is largely determined by which map you are on.
I think this is honestly why the RECRUITS AER BAD meme still exists. People don't grok there's only really 2 usable loadouts for Recruits
edit: Also TW pls replace the "More Javelins" perk with a "Sling" perk thank you have a nice day.
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I agree with most all this except I think rapid fire is the better perk so it turns into one loadout for me, long sword and rapid fire, im unsure if stronger shield covers more area because it looks bigger, I think it would work better as a perk like the aserai skirmisher shield on the second perk pool. Still, a viable unit usually best as one on team in my opinion.
Definitely agree. Skirmishers are a 1-per-team pick mostly, the exception being Wildlings I think.
I only use the Better Javelin perk on the Hillfort map, occasionally on Streets, simply because there is not enough time to throw 10 javelins before you lose most of your unit. I'd be interested to know if you had any success with that.
The damage output of Rapid Throws is much higher overall, so if you can get your team to cooperate it is the better choice in most scenarios.
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I still think the Pila is pretty pointless in Skirmish mode, since javelins are your primary method of inflicting damage. I wonder if it'd be more productive to have the Pila be a Captain mode only weapon, with Skirmish's counterpart instead being the Courser's Infantry Spear accompanied by a quiver of 3 standard javelins.
With the removal of the Pugio, i think it's safe to say that the Recruit sucks again. If the Faster Sword perk is to be gone for good, then can we instead have the following:
Increase Leather-Bound Kite Shield health from 80 to 110
Stronger Shield replaced with Improved Armor
You definitely aren't gonna live long enough to make use of your shield's increased health pool. Since you'll have to rely on weapons you find off the ground for survival, it might make sense to have an extra 9 points of armor since that Gladius will only succeed in getting you killed because you failed to score a kill with your javelins.
I get that the Recruit's supposed to give the vibe of "poorly equipped soldier who's weapons are only useful in large numbers" though since we are talking about a multiplayer game with (ideally) even headcounts per team, I think there should be some actual incentives for late joiners to actually spawn as a recruit since his only purpose right now is to punish players who die as a Menavlion Infantry or Archer Militia.
Increase Leather-Bound Kite Shield health from 80 to 110
Stronger Shield replaced with Improved Armor
You definitely aren't gonna live long enough to make use of your shield's increased health pool. Since you'll have to rely on weapons you find off the ground for survival, it might make sense to have an extra 9 points of armor since that Gladius will only succeed in getting you killed because you failed to score a kill with your javelins.
I get that the Recruit's supposed to give the vibe of "poorly equipped soldier who's weapons are only useful in large numbers" though since we are talking about a multiplayer game with (ideally) even headcounts per team, I think there should be some actual incentives for late joiners to actually spawn as a recruit since his only purpose right now is to punish players who die as a Menavlion Infantry or Archer Militia.
Because TaleWorlds seems insistent on having a "Strength in numbers" unit in a game where both teams are expected to have even headcounts, I wonder if it'd be worth it to replace the Footwork perk with the following:
Captain Mode: Reinforcements (Adds +3 models to your unit)
Behaves as you'd expect a reinforcements perk to
Non-captain modes: Reinforcements (duel excluded. Footwork is still used in that mode)
This is probably where things will get a little tricky, but since TaleWorlds wants to keep their strength in numbers unit, here's how I think will be the best way to approach this:
Gain an AI controlled companion to accompany you
Companion recruit will always have a quiver of 4 javelins, regardless of your perk selections
AI recruit has a 15% damage penalty with melee weapons until player-controlled
AI recruit has a 30% damage penalty with ranged weapons until player-controlled. This should put the javelin damage on par with the pre-1.6.1 light javelin, though I don't think players will wanna be stuck with the Light Javelin proper.
Ranged team damage is further reduced by 50%, but will never deal less than one damage. This is to make javelins recoverable, since zero damage ranged attacks will just cause throwing weapons to despawn.
AI recruits will not deal any team damage at all
AI recruit is dressed in a Sackcloth Robe and is bare-headed. This is to distinguished AI recruits from their leader, since such a clothing configuration is actually impossible to have in the Armory menu.
The following attributes only apply to TDM/Siege:
TDM-specific: Recruits with Reinforcements (and their AI companion) are only worth 10 points instead of 20. To get the full 20 points, you'll need to kill both recruits attached to that particular player.
Kills obtained through the AI companion do not contribute to the First Melee Kill or First Ranged Kill bonus
Captain Mode: Reinforcements (Adds +3 models to your unit)
Behaves as you'd expect a reinforcements perk to
Non-captain modes: Reinforcements (duel excluded. Footwork is still used in that mode)
This is probably where things will get a little tricky, but since TaleWorlds wants to keep their strength in numbers unit, here's how I think will be the best way to approach this:
Gain an AI controlled companion to accompany you
Companion recruit will always have a quiver of 4 javelins, regardless of your perk selections
AI recruit has a 15% damage penalty with melee weapons until player-controlled
AI recruit has a 30% damage penalty with ranged weapons until player-controlled. This should put the javelin damage on par with the pre-1.6.1 light javelin, though I don't think players will wanna be stuck with the Light Javelin proper.
Ranged team damage is further reduced by 50%, but will never deal less than one damage. This is to make javelins recoverable, since zero damage ranged attacks will just cause throwing weapons to despawn.
AI recruits will not deal any team damage at all
AI recruit is dressed in a Sackcloth Robe and is bare-headed. This is to distinguished AI recruits from their leader, since such a clothing configuration is actually impossible to have in the Armory menu.
The following attributes only apply to TDM/Siege:
TDM-specific: Recruits with Reinforcements (and their AI companion) are only worth 10 points instead of 20. To get the full 20 points, you'll need to kill both recruits attached to that particular player.
Kills obtained through the AI companion do not contribute to the First Melee Kill or First Ranged Kill bonus
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I would kill for an Ai in some sort of, in multi sieges, they could make a game a little more static in a differ for what is now, where all run around the castle, and you must chase them more than hold a line.
Yea, "reinforcements" in Capitan mode would a make a good change for them, but they would still be weak,
light/skirmish inf need some bufs for Capitan (excluding aserai and khuzaits, they got good light inf already)
Yea, "reinforcements" in Capitan mode would a make a good change for them, but they would still be weak,
light/skirmish inf need some bufs for Capitan (excluding aserai and khuzaits, they got good light inf already)
Thing with the recruit is that TaleWorlds insists on the Recruit being as pathetic as they are due to adhere to the lore that the Calradian Empire has such a massive army that they have more soldiers than they have the resources to adequately train and equip them.
My suggestion for giving them AI companions in Skirmish/Siege/TDM is so that their wimpy weapons can be numerous enough to actually be a threat while other peasants remain as strong as they are.
