Dear Callum

[cyresdog]

^ Except this guy. He mad an account not to long ago and he’s probably the most vocal critic of this game alive.

That is because he soaks every feedback and critique the game got in and reposts them. If you follow his posts you can actually see that every argument he brings on the table was conveniently posted 2 posts before him.
He is basically the dude who repeats a joke just louder than the guy who told the joke in the first place.

 

[Telyon]

Does it even matter?

Is "your" opinion more worth if you have more posts or joined 5 years ago when TW was still show casing feautes in their dev blogs which will never be in the game?

An argument is good, if it´s a good argument...

I would say that the majority of praise comes from newer accounts because older fans of the series have Warband as a frame of reference.

I'd better not be quoted later on as saying something as pretentious as older fans are "real" fans.

 

[Highest of all Landers]

Given that there are hundreds of posts going on everyday, it took a while for me to track the origin of my claim. My argument above is based on the mexxico's indirect statements.

First of all, in his profile on 14 July, mexxico stated that:



What can we deduce from his message? I, at least, deduce that the development is complete by %90 and the remaining %10 is more about balancing and new 'contents'. I am not a developer or a competent person to evaluate what the remaining %10 account for. Maybe writing %90 of the code does not necessarily mean that the development is %90 completed. Maybe %10 is all they need to enrich the game, provide all the new mechanics, content or whatever our hearts desires for this game. I, however, fear that it is not exactly like this. My concern in this regard is reinforced by another indirect "official" statement. In a poll in which people are asked how complete do they think Bannerlord complete is, mexxico responded "Mostly complete in terms of features and mechanics, maybe a little bit more before release". (See the image).

Combining these two remnants of the information provided above, I can conclude that Taleworlds stands nowhere near what we expect them to be. From an employee's perspective, the game is almost done (%90) and requires a few additions before its release. This, of course, does not suggest that Taleworlds will fail to fulfill its promises for its full version. I think, they will implement the features they advertised soon or later, even if not in the next or two years or not in the form we hope them to be. This is also what callum keeps saying here and there. What is worrisome for me (perhaps for others too), however, is that the game will never be fulfilling in terms of gameplay mechanics and content. Maybe I should elaborate more on what I understand from content but it would beg for another post probably. However, in a few words, I can conclude that Bannerlord is incomplete, content-poor and not immersive as it stands today. In the full-version, probably Bannerlord will be complete, yet still content-poor and not immersive game. The lack of immersion and content, I fear, is not limited to the early access, and considering where Taleworlds stands, I fear that I am right.

Thanks for your research.

I hope that this 90% doesn't account for all that is available to the public through the beta or main branch and that it is only available internally for testing, bugfix and so on. It is also worth noting that we have no way of knowing what that 90% actually includes and what would be the remaining 10%.

As for the discussion that ensued on whether this post and poll from mexxico means anything, I know it is hard to be neutral about it, he is one of the developers after all, but interactions in the forum are not part of his job and he does this in his own personal time. I don't really think it can be considered definitive because so many questions can be raised about what he wrote, like what is he basing those numbers on. We would actually need someone that can officially speak for TW to comment further on this.

 

[NLCRich]

We would actually need someone that can officially speak for TW to comment further on this.

I am actually kind of surprised TW lets players go on like this. (the topic of dicussion). In a lot of other game dev forums, an admin would have locked this thread after the initial response to OP. Here, they let players go on questioning the legitimacy of the response and then also compare against comments made by other folks at TW. It's really quite hilarious conjecture.

 

[markp27]

I am actually kind of surprised TW lets players go on like this. (not you specifically, just the discussions in general). In a lot of other game dev forums, an admin would have locked this thread after the initial response to OP. Here, they let players go on questioning the legitimacy of the response and then also compare against comments made by other folks at TW. It's really quite hilarious conjecture.

A lot of forums will not shut the thread unless it gets out of hand, with players reporting each other. The forums are supposed to be there for open debate and this is exactly what this thread has become. The users have apologised to each other, if they believe they have insulted someone and this is the way it should be. Whilst it remains like this, there is no need to shut it down.

 

[stevehoos]

A lot of forums will not shut the thread unless it gets out of hand, with players reporting each other. The forums are supposed to be there for open debate and this is exactly what this thread has become. The users have apologised to each other, if they believe they have insulted someone and this is the way it should be. Whilst it remains like this, there is no need to shut it down.

Exactly, no harm done.

 

[MostBlunted]

As for the discussion that ensued on whether this post and poll from mexxico means anything,

Do I understand you correct that you´re not even believing one of the TW devs?

 

[stevehoos]

Thanks for your research.

I hope that this 90% doesn't account for all that is available to the public through the beta or main branch and that it is only available internally for testing, bugfix and so on. It is also worth noting that we have no way of knowing what that 90% actually includes and what would be the remaining 10%.

As for the discussion that ensued on whether this post and poll from mexxico means anything, I know it is hard to be neutral about it, he is one of the developers after all, but interactions in the forum are not part of his job and he does this in his own personal time. I don't really think it can be considered definitive because so many questions can be raised about what he wrote, like what is he basing those numbers on. We would actually need someone that can officially speak for TW to comment further on this.

If I am looking at this objectively, I'd say that there is not a new big feature. Just touch ups.

 

[NLCRich]

A lot of forums will not shut the thread unless it gets out of hand, with players reporting each other. The forums are supposed to be there for open debate and this is exactly what this thread has become. The users have apologised to each other, if they believe they have insulted someone and this is the way it should be. Whilst it remains like this, there is no need to shut it down.

Well, the thread is a callout to a specific person at TW. What I'm saying is that you'd think they would want to leave a clear message as to what their response is and leave it at that. The thing is that it can be harmful. I'm not talking about insults or getting out of hand. It's harmful because the player base becomes confused as to what the concrete stance is and also what features are exactly expected. It's harmful that players have to feel like they need to pull scraps from a bunch of different places to try and figure out exactly what is going on, really just as OP was trying to say.

 

[Rhaskos]

If I am looking at this objectively, I'd say that there is not a new big feature. Just touch ups.

This is my impression. They wouldn't be spending so much time balancing existing features if new mechanics (requiring rebalancing) were to be added in a matter of months.

 

[markp27]

Well, the thread is a callout to a specific person at TW. What I'm saying is that you'd think they would want to leave a clear message as to what their response is and leave it at that. The thing is that it can be harmful. I'm not talking about insults or getting out of hand. It's harmful because the player base becomes confused as to what the concrete stance is and also what features are exactly expected. It's harmful that players have to feel like they need to pull scraps from a bunch of different places to try and figure out exactly what is going on, really just as OP was trying to say.

The problem is, is that there is no clear message. This thread has proved that. We have Callum the voice of TW saying one thing, and Mexxico a developer saying something else. Closing the thread would do neither side any good, as more threads would just pop up. TW need to sit down and decide how they want to go forward from here, as having one message coming from Callum and another from the developers is obviously not working.

 

[stevehoos]

This is my impression. They wouldn't be spending so much time balancing existing features if new mechanics (requiring rebalancing) were to be added in a matter of months.

Here's my theory:

EA is done in a year, we get a few new armors, smithy adjustments, balancing, and a light overhaul of diplomacy options. I think If we get new big features or more immersive features (imperative in my view) that will come via DLC.

 

[Highest of all Landers]

Do I understand you correct that you´re not even believing one of the TW devs?

No, you don't understand it correctly, I have said that we have no way of knowing and no way of actually measuring what he said, so it can go either way.

If I am looking at this objectively, I'd say that there is not a new big feature. Just touch ups.

And you have reason to believe so from what MrDayz added this post from mexxico to this thread. Like I said, I hope what we have now is not the 90% mexxico mentioned and they are only putting in what they believe is ready for the public, but in the end, we are just speculating.

 

[Lord of Banners]

Here's my theory:

EA is done in a year, we get a few new armors, smithy adjustments, balancing, and a light overhaul of diplomacy options. I think If we get new big features or more immersive features (imperative in my view) that will come via DLC.

This is what Callum says we will get when EA is finished:

Unique Maps for Towns, Castles and Village: Although we plan to create unique maps for every town and castle in the game, it is a rather arduous process to create that many well designed maps and as such, different locations may share the same map during early access.

Quest Content: A portion of planned quests may be missing entirely, and those in the game may be using placeholder maps, animations, etc.

Balancing: Various aspects of the game may be poorly balanced. Parts of the game may be too easy or too hard.

Voice overs: Since the game uses a lot of dynamic text and hundreds of NPCs, we are planning to record voice-overs for only a limited subset of the dialog (greetings, companion introductions and main quest). Some of these planned voice overs may be missing or using placeholder versions during EA.

Savegames: We will strive to keep savegame compatibility during EA, however it may be technically infeasible to provide 100% backward compatibility in savegames and you may occasionally have to start a new game after updating to a new version.

Bugs and glitches: Although we strive to create a stable game experience, the game will be actively developed during early access and hence there will be a greater chance of bugs and glitches creeping up. It will of course be a priority to fix these.

Localization: Our current plan is to localize the game into the following languages: French, Italian, German, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Brazilian Portuguese, Russian, Simplified Chinese, Spanish (Latin American) and Turkish. Other languages may be added later. During EA, localizations for these languages may be missing entirely or may be incomplete.

Multiplayer modes and features: The game currently supports several popular multiplayer modes, but we are planning to add more modes and features, possibly including ranked matchmaking.

Singleplayer Features: Several planned single player features may be missing or incomplete. These include but are not limited to: full game controller support, some skill and perk effects, crafting, some aspects of sieges, and clan, army and kingdom management.

 

[NLCRich]

I guess it all really comes down to what features people expect to see.

Here is what I expect from TW:

- More fleshed out story
- More immersion, specifically by localizing how people from different areas respond to the player.
- More impact on discussions depending on relations and/or origin of player
- All the other things TW said they would do when they released the early access (especially the bit about improving the siege AI)

I consider these features and I expect TW to be true to their word. What other features is anyone looking for? Is the argument over whether these should be considered features? Or is it over whether or not we will receive what is expected? Are we all just saying the same thing in different ways?

 

[VictorF]

I don't know about anyone else but Bannerlord is for me the most important and expected game of the last 10 years. What will be avaiable for players by the end of the EA phase won't be even close to what I expected and I made my peace with that. In fact, I now believe this game will only have a chance to reach what I personally expected it to be after some more years, when all the DLC's and general post-realease content gets released. What they say is 90% right now is ok for me, considering it is 90% of what they want to release this year... I like and have reason to believe it isn't even a 30% of all that can and will eventualy be done.



Oh God. I just have to believe that.

 

[markp27]

I guess it all really comes down to what features people expect to see.

Here is what I expect from TW:

- More fleshed out story
- More immersion, specifically by localizing how people from different areas respond to the player.
- More impact on discussions depending on relations and/or origin of player
- All the other things TW said they would do when they released the early access (especially the bit about improving the siege AI)

I consider these features and I expect TW to be true to their word. What other features is anyone looking for? Is the argument over whether these should be considered features? Or is it over whether or not we will receive what is expected? Are we all just saying the same thing in different ways?

A complete overhaul of the arena, to include stamina and more participants.
Quests linked to the arena including The Lady's Favour etc.
More games based upon cultures around town, cards in Vlandia and Knucklebones in Sturgia etc.
Companions having more roles and able to be married, so their children will grow up alongside yours building bonds and rivalries.Better names too.
More smithing options including making armour.
Engineers to start off with some smithings skills. In fact better skills all around as many cannot progress as their field is finished when you get them and cannot be advanced until you level them up.
Armour that works correctly, extension of lance lengths so they can hit a spearman before the horse is hit, better tactics from the AI.

How long a list did you want?

 

[froggyluv]

Do I understand you correct that you´re not even believing one of the TW devs?

Irony of this post is delicious

 

[Lord of Banners]

Irony of this post is delicious

Lmao good catch!

A complete overhaul of the arena, to include stamina and more participants.
Quests linked to the arena including The Lady's Favour etc.
More games based upon cultures around town, cards in Vlandia and Knucklebones in Sturgia etc.
Companions having more roles and able to be married, so their children will grow up alongside yours building bonds and rivalries.Better names too.
More smithing options including making armour.
Engineers to start off with some smithings skills. In fact better skills all around as many cannot progress as their field is finished when you get them and cannot be advanced until you level them up.
Armour that works correctly, extension of lance lengths so they can hit a spearman before the horse is hit, better tactics from the AI.

How long a list did you want?

Nice ideas! How about perks that aren’t useless to players too! All those governor ones or 10% increase to troops in formation kinda suck.

 

[stevehoos]

I don't know about anyone else but Bannerlord is for me the most important and expected game of the last 10 years. What will be avaiable for players by the end of the EA phase won't be even close to what I expected and I made my peace with that. In fact, I now believe this game will only have a chance to reach what I personally expected it to be after some more years, when all the DLC's and general post-realease content gets released. What they say is 90% right now is ok for me, considering it is 90% of what they want to release this year... I like and have reason to believe it isn't even a 30% of all that can and will eventualy be done.



Oh God. I just have to believe that.

Yep, this game is my last refuge, I agree. If it ends up being lackluster I will be very sad.