Dear Callum

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markp27

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@Callum

Can we please get some clarification on where the developers believe that the game is at the moment. Many of the arguments that seem to be manifesting on the forum at the moment is over the recent delay we had and the lack of updates during that period. This has left some players feeling like the game is not progressing. I am not saying we need a 25.4572463% kind of update on where we are, more a between 20-40% completion type thing.

I for one would also appreciate some sort of regular update on our ideas and which ones are being discussed by the developers. This would help both the developers and the players, in that many feel their ideas are being ignored and therefore stop putting them up. This is not beneficial to either side and ultimately could be detrimental to both sides if it continues. As players will completely give up putting forward ideas and the game will never get to be as great as it could be.

Regards

Markp27 and hopefully most of the rest of the forum crew :grin:
 

Blood Gryphon

Knight
WBVC
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We are trying a new format for development updates and there have been a few teething troubles, but we should have something to share very soon.
They will be putting out dev updates soon. Maybe do a little searching on Callums post history before making threads like this.
 

markp27

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They will be putting out dev updates soon. Maybe do a little searching on Callums post history before making threads like this.
How did that answer my questions? All that is about is a new way of announcing each update. Nothing to do with how far into the development of the game that they believe they are at, and nothing on letting us know if our ideas are being discussed.

Maybe you should stop and read what someone is actually asking for, before putting replies like that!
 

Callum

Community Manager
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Right now, we are in Early Access, and that is how far along we are in development. I know that sounds like a non-answer (because it kind of is), and what you really want to hear is a specific percentage, but unfortunately, the only way I would be able to give you such a number would be by lying to you, which I am not prepared to do.

However, what I can say is that our original estimate when releasing the game was to spend around a year in early access before the full-release and I think we are still on track for that.
 

markp27

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Right now, we are in Early Access, and that is how far along we are in development. I know that sounds like a non-answer (because it kind of is), and what you really want to hear is a specific percentage, but unfortunately, the only way I would be able to give you such a number would be by lying to you, which I am not prepared to do.

However, what I can say is that our original estimate when releasing the game was to spend around a year in early access before the full-release and I think we are still on track for that.
Fair enough :smile: It's was more to stop the bickering that is happening in the forums. I am content to wait myself.

The other question was on ideas put up in the forums. Can we get clarification one whether they are being looked at by the developers, and what do they use as a basis, is it the amount of positive replies the thread gets, or some other method?
 
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MostBlunted

Squire
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However, what I can say is that our original estimate when releasing the game was to spend around a year in early access before the full-release and I think we are still on track for that.
So we shouldn´t expect new content and only this "fix that bug, add this bug" updates?
 

Neofenris

Regular
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However, what I can say is that our original estimate when releasing the game was to spend around a year in early access before the full-release and I think we are still on track for that.
I would consider this to be pretty bad news actually, does this means just a bit of bug fixing and polish and not so much content or features ?
 

Waaaaaagh

Recruit
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However, what I can say is that our original estimate when releasing the game was to spend around a year in early access before the full-release and I think we are still on track for that.
Damn. This means the game will be screwed up.
 

khuzait haircut

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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If the game will end up like what it is today, I will not pay for its DLC.
M&B series is all about the mods.The only thing gating that now is mod tools. There's a limit to what people can do by hand just editing xml or decompling and rewriting the C# code.
 

Noschkov

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Or they have a bunch of things still in internal testing and want to get them out faster when the game no longer causes other bugs and the performance is good. It would be easier perhaps to get over all the engine and performance stuff(like reduced filesizes, better animation processing and many things that we see in the latest patches) first before you start some larger things(like more companion-storys, buildings or Items, permadeath and inheritance system for Lords and Player and new maps) which are larger files(if they come in greater numbers) but without large chances to cause significant bugs(besides of some glitches on the new maps and some balancing issues). When you start releasing this stuff now it would be a lot harder to find old bugs or ways to optimize the code when it gets burried under large amounts of more or less "safe" files. Atleast you have to think about the amount of new maps that they integrated in the game since release. When the tools are realy so easy to use they eighter have only one guy in the whole company who builds battlemaps as a second job or they have something prepared(when you listen to the Devblogs where they described how easy it is to build new maps now so i am pretty sure that it would be possible even for a small group of 2-3 people to build more then the 4-5 Maps we got.)
 

NLCRich

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I am just another player, but as someone who has worked as a software engineer, I ask you to consider this:

The game released to early access on 3/30, so we are just barely 1/3rd of the way through the Early Access period. In a normal development cycle, bug fixes, balancing, and those sort of improvements must come before adding additional features. The reason is that if you add features to an already buggy foundation, you are going to dig yourself into a hole that can be difficult to climb out of. I have seen this in other Early Access releases, and the result of taking that approach is far more significant lashback, and sometimes multiple years in Early Access, or almost permanently residing in early access.

Players need to consider just how ambitious of a game this is. We have addictive action based combat, with fully implemented RPG and player quest mechanics, overlayed on an open ended, non-linear, grand strategy campaign map, in a fully simulated medieval world that goes as far as to integrate marriage, birthing, a dynamic economy, tons of quests, and the list goes on. Each feature that is implemented doesn't just need to serve its purpose, but also needs to integrate and balance properly with all of the other aspects of the game. On top of that, they also need to manage the multiplayer aspect of the game.

To summarize, I don't think that only a year in EA should indicate a lack of new features. In the latest beta 1.4.3, a slew of new features are implemented, including new quests, story content, U.I. changes, etc. I would expect more advanced features to come later in the early access period. That said, any new features that are chosen have to fit within the time constraints the devs have set for themselves.

Lastly, in the past when TaleWorlds has released DLC, it isn't because their base game is in any way unfinished like we see with games like (CKII, Stelaris, the sims, etc). The DLC have always essentially been an entirely different game, on an entirely different map, with many different features, and an entirely new experience that is worth the $$.

If I could offer TaleWorlds any constructive criticism, it would be that you would benefit from some additional help in PR. When a negative comment receives a response, even if it is as simple as "We are working on that," "we will take that into consideration" " we apologize for the issue" this type of regular activity and response can discourage further negativity in a positive way.
 

Callum

Community Manager
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So we shouldn´t expect new content and only this "fix that bug, add this bug" updates?
I would consider this to be pretty bad news actually, does this means just a bit of bug fixing and polish and not so much content or features ?
You should expect everything that we talked about in the EA description of the store page, and possibly a few things more. I'm really not sure how you jumped to this conclusion from the comment I made about us expecting to be in EA for around a year...
 

MrDayz

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
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I'm really not sure how you jumped to this conclusion from the comment I made about us expecting to be in EA for around a year...
Let me help you to understand: Roughly 1/3 of Early Access is complete and the progression of the game is close to zero content-wise. No reason to believe that the rest 2/3 will be different especially considering that "you are on the track".
 

Callum

Community Manager
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"While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year. Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product."

Take from that what you will, but I think we are still on track and can stand by this statement. If it takes longer than a year, it takes longer, and ultimately, the game will be ready when it is ready. But you shouldn't for one moment think that we will just be fixing bugs and then call it a day when some self-imposed timer is up.
 

markp27

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"While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year. Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product."

Take from that what you will, but I think we are still on track and can stand by this statement. If it takes longer than a year, it takes longer, and ultimately, the game will be ready when it is ready. But you shouldn't for one moment think that we will just be fixing bugs and then call it a day when some self-imposed timer is up.
And still you choose to ignore the question, of if our ideas are being discussed by the developers and how do the developers look at the forums. Is it by popularity of the idea or some other measure?
 

MrDayz

Sergeant
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"While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year. Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product."

Take from that what you will, but I think we are still on track and can stand by this statement. If it takes longer than a year, it takes longer, and ultimately, the game will be ready when it is ready.
I personally did not refer to any deadline. Neither I had an intention to imply that you are slow or whatever. My statement is all about the development of the game content-wise. A brief clarification:

It has been 4 months since the EA started, which account for 1/3 of the estimated early access progress. So far, the game is neither fun nor enjoyable; it lacks even the fundamentals. Development-wise, the last 4 months (1/3 of the estimated progress) have been just about dealing with the fundamentals (that people can finally run their games and so on, yes it sounds funny). Wait, it hasn't touched to the bottom; to make it worse, in the last 4 months, the fundamentals have not been solved yet. That is to say, there is a profound reason to believe that upcoming months will be about fundamentals too. So, what to conclude from this fact? Here is the conclusion: Does the community have expectations for new content? Hell yes. Does the community have any hopes for new content anymore? Hell no. It is something for you to think about maybe.

I hope the game takes longer than a year in EA. To think that it will be released in the appx. next 8 months is just worrisome.
 
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Foxosaur

Recruit
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0
I am just another player, but as someone who has worked as a software engineer, I ask you to consider this:

The game released to early access on 3/30, so we are just barely 1/3rd of the way through the Early Access period. In a normal development cycle, bug fixes, balancing, and those sort of improvements must come before adding additional features. The reason is that if you add features to an already buggy foundation, you are going to dig yourself into a hole that can be difficult to climb out of. I have seen this in other Early Access releases, and the result of taking that approach is far more significant lashback, and sometimes multiple years in Early Access, or almost permanently residing in early access.

Players need to consider just how ambitious of a game this is. We have addictive action based combat, with fully implemented RPG and player quest mechanics, overlayed on an open ended, non-linear, grand strategy campaign map, in a fully simulated medieval world that goes as far as to integrate marriage, birthing, a dynamic economy, tons of quests, and the list goes on. Each feature that is implemented doesn't just need to serve its purpose, but also needs to integrate and balance properly with all of the other aspects of the game. On top of that, they also need to manage the multiplayer aspect of the game.

To summarize, I don't think that only a year in EA should indicate a lack of new features. In the latest beta 1.4.3, a slew of new features are implemented, including new quests, story content, U.I. changes, etc. I would expect more advanced features to come later in the early access period. That said, any new features that are chosen have to fit within the time constraints the devs have set for themselves.

Lastly, in the past when TaleWorlds has released DLC, it isn't because their base game is in any way unfinished like we see with games like (CKII, Stelaris, the sims, etc). The DLC have always essentially been an entirely different game, on an entirely different map, with many different features, and an entirely new experience that is worth the $$.

If I could offer TaleWorlds any constructive criticism, it would be that you would benefit from some additional help in PR. When a negative comment receives a response, even if it is as simple as "We are working on that," "we will take that into consideration" " we apologize for the issue" this type of regular activity and response can discourage further negativity in a positive way.
100% my sentiments. Thank you.
 

Dabos37

Knight
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After 4 months the game is much more stable and pretty pleable. Some few things have been added but a nice feature about permanent death and aging is almost totally implemented (assuming that old characters will start dying in the next patch). Rebelions/Revolts system is partially implemented in the game and adding new diplomacy and relationship options with lords do not look like too much complicated tasks (compared with a much more deeper features).

I mean, I think the current situation is not that bad and biggest problem has been the amount of time invested in refractiring. After 6-7 weeks, de still have some bugs related to It.