1.7.1 Battania is coded to die?

[Theofilos]

I started a new campaign after 1.5 years of not playing and i joined my fav faction Battania.Long story short after 5 in game years we fought 3 wars 1-2 days each,they're making peace immediately and all lords are dirty poor with under 40% parties so no armies can be made.I would expect the game to have solved these issues after 2 years in EA but its still unplayable

 

[Death Knell]

But Battanian's are the best faction ...

 

[EmptyPepsiCans]

Battania has fairly crappy troops, apart from the noble line, and hands down the worst location in the game. They ought to be pretty safe, up in the mountains like they are, but their castles are the wrong places and enemy armies can just march through the passes.

Come to think of it, none of the castle placement makes a lick of sense. You'd think that choke points, passes, bridges, and the like would all be fortified. For instance, in any rational world there'd be castles at the chokepoints between Aserai and Empire territory and between eastern and western Sturgia. Those are natural places for tax collection and defense. Add in a mechanic where only small bands can slip past defenses to raid (which would therefore be dangerous, as it should be) and the world would be a whole lot less chaotic. That would make for stronger economies, better armies, and wars that were more than random, unfocused dustups.

 

[five bucks]

I think it's a good thing if Battania are usually the quickest faction to be destroyed, from a lore perspective.

In Warband they don't exist at all except as forest bandits, all their territory had been captured by Vlandia/Swadia, Nords and Sturgia/Vaegirs and they have been completely wiped off the map.

With that said, these AI issues you speak of aren't exclusive to Battania, all kingdoms' AI is a bit dumb and often subject to financial troubles. If anything, Battania has the best culture bonus in the game, with the strongest upsides and most irrelevant downside. In the patches before 1.7 they were actually one of the most dominant factions thanks to their high cavalry proportion too.

Is your Battania losing much actual territory or just paying tribute? Seeing the map state would be interesting.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

They're in the Piper Peri couch spot for sure, but whether they get taken out isn't consistent. Whiteout direct player carrying of other factions they seem to stick around. I don't know about extended games but for normal play time the snowballing (or complete elimination of factions by AI) doesn't seem to happen in say 15-18 years.

 

[Sir Frederic]

Surely they are ia problems, but also check if there is any active law that is draining a lot of income, battania has the cantonal law if I am not mistaken, maybe you should vote to remove it. Help the villages and cities with their problems that cause prosperity to fall.

Lastly and most drastically, spend a few days in the smithy making money and then start giving the chiefs of each clan half a million each so they'll have plenty of money to spend on recruits.

 

[black_bulldog]

Lastly and most drastically, spend a few days in the smithy making money and then start giving the chiefs of each clan half a million each so they'll have plenty of money to spend on recruits.

It shouldn't take intervention by a player to keep a faction financially sound and resorting to cheese strats to do so is even worse.

 

[Sir Frederic]

It shouldn't take intervention by a player to keep a faction financially sound and resorting to cheese strats to do so is even worse.

I wish more than anyone that it wasn't necessary but well...
In my current game, I'm holding my enemies prisoner with my -100% escape chance, and even though it's a game mechanic and the only way to avoid unstoppable looting chaos or sieges, it still feels cheesy.

 

[black_bulldog]

I wish more than anyone that it wasn't necessary but well...
In my current game, I'm holding my enemies prisoner with my -100% escape chance, and even though it's a game mechanic and the only way to avoid unstoppable looting chaos or sieges, it still feels cheesy.

It's sad that you feel you have to do that. It shows just how bad the base mechanics of this game are.

 

[five bucks]

I wish more than anyone that it wasn't necessary but well...
In my current game, I'm holding my enemies prisoner with my -100% escape chance, and even though it's a game mechanic and the only way to avoid unstoppable looting chaos or sieges, it still feels cheesy.

I actually wouldn't consider -100% escape chance a cheese mechanic - there were quite a few nobles in real life who never escaped captivity. You have to work a bit to get to that point, too.

Would not want TW to change it.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I think it's a good thing if Battania are usually the quickest faction to be destroyed, from a lore perspective.

In Warband they don't exist at all except as forest bandits, all their territory had been captured by Vlandia/Swadia, Nords and Sturgia/Vaegirs and they have been completely wiped off the map.

With that said, these AI issues you speak of aren't exclusive to Battania, all kingdoms' AI is a bit dumb and often subject to financial troubles. If anything, Battania has the best culture bonus in the game, with the strongest upsides and most irrelevant downside. In the patches before 1.7 they were actually one of the most dominant factions thanks to their high cavalry proportion too.

Is your Battania losing much actual territory or just paying tribute? Seeing the map state would be interesting.

I don't want predictable things to occur. If Battania is going to fall every time you play unless you actively help, its not interesting.

EDIT: Say what you will about TW, but I love their stupid April Fools stuff.

 

[Death Knell]

wtf lol april fools on me.

 

[five bucks]

me don't want predictable things to occur. If Battania is going to fall every time you play unless you actively help, its not interesting.

EDIT: Say what you will about TW, but me love their stupid fourth moon klubheads stuff.

I agree Battania shouldn't fall first every time. Ideally, I'd like to see them be the "underdogs", and it is usually either them or an Empire sub-faction to be first to fall - but in some games they can also successfully rise up and conquer Calradia.

Unga bunga me like ludonarrative consistency unga bunga

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

? is the way unless they fully revamp basically everything so there's real balance, compensations/penalties and air tight control over troop behavior and add the mf'n mini map from warband. All hail the ??

 

[JedSlater]

Surely they are ia problems, but also check if there is any active law that is draining a lot of income, battania has the cantonal law if me am not mistaken, maybe you should vote to remove it. Help the villages and cities with their problems that cause prosperity to fall.

Lastly and most drastically, spend a few days in the smithy making money and then start giving the chiefs of each clan half a million each so they'll have plenty of money to spend on recruits.

How do you give them money?... ahh yeah hunt them down and give them a gift got it.

 

[Theofilos]

I continued the campaign by giving them unlimited money with console command and now they are in constant war while having double strenth of every other faction,boring gameplay.

At first i thought ok maybe they slowed everything down so the game would last 100 years until i found the real reason why they were not fighting.They were broke with no chance to form army.

Im ok with them being the underdog but these guys were doomed from start.Btw they were paying tribute to two factions and getting payed by one so i dont think thats the reason of their bad economy,something is wrong or broke idk in which patch as i havent played since july '20.

 

[MostBlunted]

They're in the Piper Peri couch spot for sure,

 

[Zorion_no]

I continued the campaign by giving them unlimited money with console command and now they are in constant war while having double strenth of every other faction,boring gameplay.

At first i thought ok maybe they slowed everything down so the game would last 100 years until i found the real reason why they were not fighting.They were broke with no chance to form army.

Im ok with them being the underdog but these guys were doomed from start.Btw they were paying tribute to two factions and getting payed by one so i dont think thats the reason of their bad economy,something is wrong or broke idk in which patch as i havent played since july '20.

Your conclusion about them being broke is what I've figured aswell.

All my plays(read I never play'em) and they get wiped of the map in 5-10 yrs tops.
The faction I'm with rarely are at war with them.

The main problem is that they end up paying too much tribute and once that sets in, they cant even maintain garrisons.

In the current game Rhemtoil Castle that is owned by Caladog have 94 tropps but -7 due to salary..
At the very least imo a garrison should be able to have about 90-100 in castles, and 200-300 in towns.

So basically a few of the things that is "wrong in the game in this regards" is that they for instance is paying Aserai 1400 denars pr day.
They are paying Southern Empire 1200 pr day.
None of theese factions shared any borders with Battania at the time of war, but they decided to be greedy, and knew that Battania would fork out for peace.

Vlandia is getting 4,5k
Western Empire is getting 4k
Sturgia is getting 5,4k

Northern empire is the one they are at war with atm and they want 4,5k.

Total power of Battania atm is at year 5 of my play 1,6k starts at 5,5k roughly same as all other factions right?
They have list 1 town Marunath cause you know they had a throng of useless milita in it, but a puny garrison(under 100)
They have lost 1 castle Abercom or what its called the one next to Vlandia.
Thats it, they even have Veron Castle they took from Western Empire.

The mechanics of endless tribute is just "bad for the longevity of the game" it needs to be 30 days with tribute, then after its 0.
That way the factions have a chance to "rebuild".
The other thing that hurt Battania more than other factions though, is that they have the policy of Canton, which cuts their income by x% but they get +1 milita(which is useless..)

So with the prime location that they have with several hostile neighbours all got nice borders with'em they end up in this cycle of slow decay.

Canton policy needs to be reviewed and change, as the benefit of +1 milita just isnt good enough.
Since the milita in ai vs ai is useless(even worse vs player)

The "Battania" issue really needs to be looked into.
This outcome also happends if I just start the game, and hide in a "safespot" and speed time along for hrs of game(like over the nite etc).
The few times I've joined Battania they are fine(but so is any other faction that I join, but never do I see the others be wiped of the map that early).

Some games I've seen Southern Empire also be wiped out, but thats typically more due to them being unlucky and loosing "good lords" early on, which is rng.

 

[Theofilos]

Yeah at the start of the game they fight all neibhoor factions and regardless the resaults they pay huge tributes as this system is totally bs and then they have a long peace period in which they slowly decay.

The only reason why they dont just vanish from the map in 5 years is because AI armies dont have food to do sieges.

Before i tried the game again i saw a yt video showing how ballance is achieved in 100 years and thought ok the game's going good but then after playing it i reallised this ''ballance'' is achieved cuz all the wrong reasons.

It looks good on paper but its so bad if you play the game,nothing makes sense.....now the only hope is tottal conversion mods but then again if the core gameplay isnt good.....

 

[Zorion_no]

Yeah at the start of the game they fight all neibhoor factions and regardless the resaults they pay huge tributes as this system is totally bs and then they have a long peace period in which they slowly decay.

The only reason why they dont just vanish from the map in 5 years is because AI armies dont have food to do sieges.

Before i tried the game again i saw a yt video showing how ballance is achieved in 100 years and thought ok the game's going good but then after playing it i reallised this ''ballance'' is achieved cuz all the wrong reasons.

It looks good on paper but its so bad if you play the game,nothing makes sense.....now the only hope is tottal conversion mods but then again if the core gameplay isnt good.....

I dont think they need to do an overhaul.
But a few tweaks, mainly Cantons be removed or changed, the heavy tribute with also them earning much less than other factions from their income "hurts too much".

At start they do well, but then they get ganked by 2-3 or more factions at once and end up with the crazy heavy tribute to all the factions.
This breaks their financial backs.

I did join them in one play, just to change things up - removed cantons for one, and within a few years even if we didnt loose terrain nor win any, they ended up with being able to field decent size parties.
When I left, they ended up takeing big chunks of Vlandia and Western Empire(until they got in war with my faction, and well that didnt go well)(for them).

Overall the endless warmongering is part of the issue I think, and it needs to be dialed down abit.
So that you dont end up with the scenario like Battania where nations not touching borders declare war, just to get tribute aswell.

A very easy fix, would also be to remove the tribute from endless to limit it to 30 days.
Then war dont have to be declared to get out of a rotten tribute, or that the kingdomes can recover abit.

I still dont like the system of war vs peace in the game enough, I felt that its kind of good, but also lack something, but I liked the system from Warband more where it was a "just cause" Causis Belli to declare war, and not just cause we can get tribute.