Bannerlord was a grift

[ShakenSpeare]

Does it help at least?

I mean, yeah, but I do those hobbies regardless of Bannerlord or the Forums. Stereotyping people who criticize TW on here as people who do nothing else is a weak argument and you could just as well stereotype people who constantly defend the game on here as doing nothing else either. I'm sure many forum lurkers do really need other hobbies and focuses, but there's no real way you can possibly induce whether that's the case or not for individuals. You're not the first person to make this argument.

 

[mujadaddy]

@LuciusDomitiusAurelianus Good post. Transparency is not really TW's #1 watchword, though. It's also fairly likely that they know how large the backlog is, and they're biting their nails and counting on console VC to actually finish the game, full stop

 

[Roy1012]

I mean, yeah, but I do those hobbies regardless of Bannerlord or the Forums. Stereotyping people who criticize TW on here as people who do nothing else is a weak argument and you could just as well stereotype people who constantly defend the game on here as doing nothing else either. I'm sure many forum lurkers do really need other hobbies and focuses, but there's no real way you can possibly induce whether that's the case or not for individuals. You're not the first person to make this argument.

Most of us, myself at least, are just browsing and posting on the forum while at work/very bored. You got a good point that if you accuse someone of that, you can easily be accused of it and there is the exact same defense against it.

 

[black_bulldog]

You can always read MORE books and do MORE shootings!

I actually spit my drink out thanks MostBlunted.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Didn't see this until Shakenspeare's comment. So you are just trolling and arguing to argue lmao. You gotta make it a little less obvious bro.

This entire thread is trolling and 'arguing to argue'!!

Oh btw - using American legal laws Roy (which you are bound by); this thread could very easily be considered defamation;

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things:

1) a false statement purporting to be fact;
2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person;
3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and
4) damages, or some harm caused to the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

You have clearly accused them of a crime - that is very simple to disprove.

https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

When libel is clear on its face, without the need for any explanatory matter, it is called libel per se. The following are often found to be libelous per se:

A statement that falsely:

• Charges any person with crime, or with having been indicted, convicted, or punished for crime.

And online publications do indeed count;

Can I sue someone for defamation on social media?

Social media has introduced a new type of libel and defamation claims. Our lawyers explain when you can sue someone for defamation on social media.

www.hja.net

What counts as publication?

Publication includes defamatory statements made on social media.

I wouldn't be shocked if TW could actually leverage a civil case against you.... and what do you know.. here is a Lawyer in the U.S. that specialises in exaxtly these types of cases

Defamation Attorney | KR Lawyers

Having litigated dozens of internet defamation cases over the last twenty years, a KR defamation attorney is happy to bring experience to bear for you.

krinternetlaw.com

What takes only minutes to post to the internet or social media can cause significant harm to a company, a brand, or an individual. Defamatory statements can be especially harmful when they are in blogs, consumer reviews, or employee reviews of the company that appear as top search engine results. For over fifteen years, Kronenberger Rosenfeld has represented parties in internet defamation disputes, and we can bring this experience to bear for you.

 

[Roy1012]

This entire thread is trolling and 'arguing to argue'!!

I disagree. I have been asking for a legitimate reason for your TW simping, and you have yet to give a real response. Maybe its because you don't have an actual legitimate argument?

Oh btw - using American legal laws Roy (which you are bound by);

this thread could very easily be considered defamation;

I don't think anyone called it defamation before this. It was called slander, though that doesn't even apply since its not spoken, it is written (libel). Either way, let's move on with your accusation:

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things:

1) a false statement purporting to be fact;

These are all theories and have been presented as such, so this is endpilled.

2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person;

True.

3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and

I am indeed negligent of TW's balance sheet, hence why I theorized about it, and never purported it as fact.

4) damages, or some harm caused to the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

It's possible this applies, but you need all four, and you have two at best.

You have clearly accused them of a crime - that is very simple to disprove.

Source?

https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

When libel is clear on its face, without the need for any explanatory matter, it is called libel per se. The following are often found to be libelous per se:

A statement that falsely:

• Charges any person with crime, or with having been indicted, convicted, or punished for crime.

Never accused them of any crime whatsoever.

And online publications do indeed count;

Can I sue someone for defamation on social media?

Social media has introduced a new type of libel and defamation claims. Our lawyers explain when you can sue someone for defamation on social media.

www.hja.net

What counts as publication?

Publication includes defamatory statements made on social media.

Okay....

I wouldn't be shocked if TW could actually leverage a civil case against you.... just FYI...

Yeah. I'm sure you wouldn't, because you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know what Afghanistan dictatorship you live in, but making estimations about a company's financial position and showing severe disapproval for a product is not a crime lmao

 

[Mad Vader]

Let's see what the hobby lawyers experts think in the comments!

You have clearly accused them of a crime - that is very simple to disprove.

Wouldn't you need internal TW communications showing intent to deliver what their PR promised? TW would settle before airing its internal emails if they were controversy-averse like US corps.

I'd go for false advertising instead of grift in Roy's place though, seems more precise and correct, though I'm not sure how it would fare in courts.
Maybe TW would force Roy to legally change the name of the thread to an accusation of a lesser crime.

 

[Roy1012]

I'd go for false advertising instead of grift in Roy's place though, seems more precise and correct, though I'm not sure how it would fare in courts.
Maybe TW would force Roy to legally change the name of the thread to an accusation of a lesser crime.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I disagree. I have been asking for a legitimate reason for your TW simping, and you have yet to give a real response. Maybe its because you don't have an actual legitimate argument?



I don't think anyone called it defamation before this. It was called slander, though that doesn't even apply since its not spoken, it is written (libel). Either way, let's move on with your accusation:

These are all theories and have been presented as such, so this is endpilled.

True.

I am indeed negligent of TW's balance sheet, hence why I theorized about it, and never purported it as fact.

It's possible this applies, but you need all four, and you have two at best.

Source?

Never accused them of any crime whatsoever.

Okay....

Yeah. I'm sure you wouldn't, because you have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know what Afghanistan dictatorship you live in, but making estimations about a company's financial position and showing severe disapproval for a product is not a crime lmao

You literally accuse them of a crime;

Conclusion: Bannerlord was a Grift

Also ignorance is not an excuse;

Social Media and Online Defamation

Learn what cyber libel and online defamation are, how to prove online libel or defamation, and how you can get compensated for any resulting damages.

www.nolo.com

Are Opinions Protected?​

But let's qualify this statement. Let's say that you wrote, "I think that John Smith hit his wife two weeks ago." Statements of opinion are not statements of fact, and so theoretically are protected from libel suits. But is this really a statement of opinion? Sometimes statements of opinion really are viewed as statements of fact, depending on the circumstances. In this case, the average person may very well look at your statement as a statement of fact, depending on how well you know John Smith and his wife, and why you believe that Smith hit his wife.

The bottom line: Just because you phrase something as a statement of opinion -- "I think" or "I believe" -- does not automatically protect you from a defamation claim.


1. The statement: you have accused them of a criminal offense without knowing any/all of the facts and portrayed it as truth.
2. Publication to a third party - this thread has 1000's of views on their primary social media platform.
3. The fault - Very very very simple to prove that Taleworlds have committed no criminal offense. Opinion / negligence are no defence.
4. The damages - more difficult to prove but certainly not impossible given the volume of views.

4/4....

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

This entire thread is trolling and 'arguing to argue'!!

Oh btw - using American legal laws

I stopped caring immediatly after American legal laws. Sincerely, the rest of the world.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I stopped caring immediatly after American legal laws. Sincerely, the rest of the world.

Roy is from the U.S.- which is why this is relevant.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

Roy is from the U.S.- which is why this is relevant.

I'm sure the terms & conditions of TW favor the turkish judicial system.

 

[Roy1012]

You literally accuse them of a crime;

Grifting is not a crime. Grifting, at least in the American sense, is doing something solely for the money, as evidenced by my original post's conclusion. If it was illegal to call someone a grifter as "defamation", half of reddit would be imprisoned.

The bottom line: Just because you phrase something as a statement of opinion -- "I think" or "I believe" -- does not automatically protect you from a defamation claim.

I believe the profit ratio to the content given is terrible in our favor. Also, you have to keep in mind that -- what if it actually is a grift? What if, as @MadVader it was considered to be false advertising, by a court of law? Where the hell does your claim that I did any wrongdoing go? Right in the trash. Either way, both hypothetical scenarios are absolutely absurd, good luck getting any court to believe that there should be any repercussion for calling an independent studio's game a grift lmao

I'm sure the terms & conditions of TW favor the turkish judicial system.

I'm sure they do, and if TW decided to ban me I would have literally no reason to be pissed at them. It's their website, they are more than welcome to do whatever the hell they want, that's free speech. They can ban anyone & nobody and while I might be pissed my account is screwed, that's just how the cookie crumbles and I accept the logic of it. Like, if I eat pizza every day for 5 years I'm not going to be happy that my heart collapses, but I understand the reason why it did and accept that. TW doesn't need a reason to ban me or anyone else, they are free to do so. Either way, I don't think a Turkish court would take such a lawsuit seriously -- let alone the US. Yep, let's extradite a 20 something nobody because he started a thread on a website.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I'm sure the terms & conditions of TW favor the turkish judicial system.

Civil claims can be made under the jurisdiction of the location the offence was committed. TW could use U.S. lawyers and U.S. defamation laws to bring this case against the U.S citizen.

 

[NPC99]

You have quite literally accused Taleworlds of committing a crime in front of a large audience. I wouldn't be shocked if TW could actually leverage a civil case against you.... just FYI...

TW have better things to do than take out a legal case against someone who can't afford to pay them adequate damages, if they won. Despite comments in this thread by Mexxico and d_Duh, most TW Devs avoid participating in unproductive rants. Those who are comfortable communicating in English are more active in the TW Forums Modding Discord where they can provide constructive help to modders without abuse.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Grifting is not a crime. Grifting, at least in the American sense, is doing something solely for the money, as evidenced by my original post's conclusion. If it was illegal to call someone a grifter as "defamation", half of reddit would be imprisoned.

I believe the profit ratio to the content given is terrible in our favor. Also, you have to keep in mind that -- what if it actually is a grift? What if, as @MadVader it was considered to be false advertising, by a court of law? Where the hell does your claim that I did any wrongdoing go? Right in the trash. Either way, both hypothetical scenarios are absolutely absurd, good luck getting any court to believe that there should be any repercussion for calling an independent studio's game a grift lmao

The Merriam-Webster dictionary literally defines it as;

Definition of grift​

transitive verb
: to obtain (money or property) illicitly (as in a confidence game)
intransitive verb
: to acquire money or property illicitly

That is the official U.S. dictionary is it not?

In theory any defamatory comment could be sued against yes. Though most don't get the volume of views or so clearly make defamatory statements. The very title of this thread is defamatory.

Oh and regardless of whether you think it is or isn't you would need to prove it as such. Which given the circumstances of your claim is going to be an extremely tough argument....

 

[Roy1012]

The Merriam-Webster dictionary literally defines it as;

Definition of grift​

transitive verb
: to obtain (money or property) illicitly (as in a confidence game)
intransitive verb
: to acquire money or property illicitly

That is the official U.S. dictionary is it not?

We don't even have an official language (which I'll admit is kind of whack), so we definitely do not have an official dictionary. Anyone can create a dictionary and say whatever the hell they want in it. Doesn't mean that is accurate or correct, and obviously there are more reputable dictionaries than others, but it is subjective at the end of the day. I can claim that the word "boat" means to scoop ice cream, and if enough people use that usage, well, that's the meaning of the word now, or at least a meaning. Whether a court of law will recognize it is another question...

 

[AxiosXiphos]

We don't even have an official language, so we definitely do not have an official dictionary. Anyone can create a dictionary and say whatever the hell they want in it. Doesn't mean that is accurate or correct, and obviously there are more reputable dictionaries than others, but it is subjective at the end of the day.

Maybe official was the wrong word - certainly the dictionary definition that would be used in a U.S. court of law. Let's go with that.

Anyway as amusing as this is - of course Taleworlds are not going to sue you. Though it is fascinating that if they did - they would have a good chance of getting a very strong case.

...maybe something to consider though if you use any other social media platforms in the future though. The next company you accuse of a crime might not be so relaxed about it.

 

[NPC99]

Maybe TW would force Roy to legally change the name of the thread to an accusation of a lesser crime.

You're just stirring the pot, despite knowing TW could ask forum moderators to do that in an instant without any legal costs, if they cared to get down in the gutter with us.

 

[Roy1012]

Maybe official was the wrong word - certainly the dictionary definition that would be used in a U.S. court of law. Let's go with that.

Black's Law Dictionary for legal terms is used, as I understand dictionaries are rarely used -- and saying "The dictionary defines ____ as...." is seen as fairly unprofessional and somewhat patronizing, as you are assuming the jurors/people in the court don't understand the word.

Though it is fascinating that if they did - they would have a good chance of getting a very strong case.

I seriously doubt that. I don't think they have a case at all based on the fact not only is calling something a "grift" not a crime, but also because I strictly said it was not a scam, although as I mentioned, the argument for false advertising perhaps has merit to it (about a year = 2.25 years?). I'm not specifically making that argument in this thread, though. If calling something a grift is a crime, America has truly lost the plot.