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WHY is the class system staying?
- Thread starter Kylbee
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Unrelated to the current topic, but since @AVRC offered a comment in the reddit thread:
"Tools to allow communities of players to play against each other or practice among themselves is also in the works. They will not be in the form of old school community servers but it will be a solution which both works with our back-end systems and satisfies the community needs. They will be built on top the Clan system."
I am hoping that you could expand on this explanation. I understand that there is a matchmaking system and that this will be supported by yourselves as you have said 'works with our back-ends systems and satisfies the community needs'. Where does this leave minor regions for Bannerlord's multiplayer? I have my own criticisms of the games current class system, but I feel that such a massive part of the player base will be left out in this multiplayer solution and this is a much bigger issue than the current class system debate. SA & OCE will be completely and totally unsupported with the above. I get it, server infrastructure is expensive, but surely there is some other option? I am not familiar with the SA scene or how they organised themselves there but here in OCE we have always had various self-branded communities who pay for servers out of their own pockets and host events on different days. I am just one player posting, but these communities, believe it or not, compromise of 100+ of people. As others have written in this forum, many of them have complete and utter contempt of forums or writing anything about the state of mount & blade, these communities are mostly vocal (discord & before that, predominantly teamspeak). With what is written in AVRC's comment, we will be completely left out to dry.
Will TW ever explore some sort of crowd-funder option for these regions if matchmaking is the only route that Bannerlord is going down. It is absolutely crushing to know that we do not have the same ability to play & test the current game and finally that we won't be supported at all in the future.
Maybe @azakhi could help here too?
"Tools to allow communities of players to play against each other or practice among themselves is also in the works. They will not be in the form of old school community servers but it will be a solution which both works with our back-end systems and satisfies the community needs. They will be built on top the Clan system."
I am hoping that you could expand on this explanation. I understand that there is a matchmaking system and that this will be supported by yourselves as you have said 'works with our back-ends systems and satisfies the community needs'. Where does this leave minor regions for Bannerlord's multiplayer? I have my own criticisms of the games current class system, but I feel that such a massive part of the player base will be left out in this multiplayer solution and this is a much bigger issue than the current class system debate. SA & OCE will be completely and totally unsupported with the above. I get it, server infrastructure is expensive, but surely there is some other option? I am not familiar with the SA scene or how they organised themselves there but here in OCE we have always had various self-branded communities who pay for servers out of their own pockets and host events on different days. I am just one player posting, but these communities, believe it or not, compromise of 100+ of people. As others have written in this forum, many of them have complete and utter contempt of forums or writing anything about the state of mount & blade, these communities are mostly vocal (discord & before that, predominantly teamspeak). With what is written in AVRC's comment, we will be completely left out to dry.
Will TW ever explore some sort of crowd-funder option for these regions if matchmaking is the only route that Bannerlord is going down. It is absolutely crushing to know that we do not have the same ability to play & test the current game and finally that we won't be supported at all in the future.
Maybe @azakhi could help here too?
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Goobz
Recruit
What I want to know is why will these tools NOT be in the form of the old school community servers? They were PERFECT. There was nothing wrong with them. Changing that format to a clan based system? Why?? Just let us have old school community servers and everyone will be happy. There's no need to change what doesn't need fixing.
I'm also extremely concerned as to why there is absolutely no mention of any of the unsupported regions as @Tacostrom mentioned above (eg OCE, SA etc.), in that reddit post in regards to the feedback. So what we're going to implement all these 'cool' things for the community but we're not going to give the other regions that have been BEGGING for matchmaking since launch their matchmaking? Which in turn totally negates most of these changes/features that you're planning on introducing for these regions, because we simply CANNOT PLAY. Please sort out your priorities Taleworlds. It's real ****ing disappointing.
I'm also extremely concerned as to why there is absolutely no mention of any of the unsupported regions as @Tacostrom mentioned above (eg OCE, SA etc.), in that reddit post in regards to the feedback. So what we're going to implement all these 'cool' things for the community but we're not going to give the other regions that have been BEGGING for matchmaking since launch their matchmaking? Which in turn totally negates most of these changes/features that you're planning on introducing for these regions, because we simply CANNOT PLAY. Please sort out your priorities Taleworlds. It's real ****ing disappointing.
DainMorgot
Sergeant
You have 4k hours on warband and 2 of those are on CRPG. That is something you said in this thread before. How did you not like CRPG if you spent 50% of the time in it?
Archer with a shield wasn't OP, it was necessary, lest the archer become dead weight.
1h, with shield and spear is the expected standard loadout, and even then, mass infantry was rarely picked. Just because it was the stability pick for teams doesn't mean it was OP.
Lance was strong, especially with bumplancing, but due to the animations, having a proactive teammate smashing tilde and wielding a spear could make cavalry only situationally useful.
so 0.5/3.
Warband was one of the most balanced games I've ever played.
I approached AVRC with this a week or so ago. There will be community servers once they are done developing everything that is needed for them. Until then, they are creating a system which will be a part of the clan features allowing groups of players to directly matchmake against each other. This will allow for tournaments and training matches (scrims) between teams to happen and even though I would rather see community servers with adjustable settings, this will have to be enough for now. I actually think that this feature will be up for all the regions, not just EU and NA.
Which builts did you pick over it then? Or maybe there were no alternatives to it?
Thanks for the reply Kern, do you have a link anywhere that confirms the last part about it being up for all regions?
No, that is an opinion of my own. So do not count on it. It would be silly to not implement this feature for other regions too. Especially if people won’t have the option to host servers for a long time.
Guaccmoleboy
the limitations of warband's equipment system were the fault of warband, not from the fundamental system. people played with what equipment was available; obviously the basic swadian infantry will choose 1h, shield, awlpike because what else is there to choose?
when the system did provide players with choices, players used them. it is dishonest to suggest that the competitive community only used 1 loadout for each faction. examples: swadian inf with heavy armour at the cost of low tier weapon and shield, sarranid inf with scimitar instead of axe for more armour, sarranid inf with javs at cost of armour/weapon, courser cavalry for more speed/armour at cost of tank horse, war horse cavalry at cost of armour, etc etc.
when you present players with options in the warband equipment system, they will use them. the gold system balances how each option interacts with each other. with some fine tuning (that i was expecting to come from bannerlord), the system could definitely have been perfected.
i agree that the class system works, and probably works better than the warband equipment system, in skirmish mode - they were designed to complement each other. however, when we think of other game modes like siege, tdm and battle, the faults of the class system become far more apparent.
when the system did provide players with choices, players used them. it is dishonest to suggest that the competitive community only used 1 loadout for each faction. examples: swadian inf with heavy armour at the cost of low tier weapon and shield, sarranid inf with scimitar instead of axe for more armour, sarranid inf with javs at cost of armour/weapon, courser cavalry for more speed/armour at cost of tank horse, war horse cavalry at cost of armour, etc etc.
when you present players with options in the warband equipment system, they will use them. the gold system balances how each option interacts with each other. with some fine tuning (that i was expecting to come from bannerlord), the system could definitely have been perfected.
i agree that the class system works, and probably works better than the warband equipment system, in skirmish mode - they were designed to complement each other. however, when we think of other game modes like siege, tdm and battle, the faults of the class system become far more apparent.
The fact that you haven't even for a second assumed that those 'two sources' might be overlapping and instead insisted that they represent unique voters and didn't even shy away from bumping and rounding up the number before boldly telling me to stop fighting 'it', made me wonder if by 'it' you meant bias.
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Exactly, some people seem to pick that either one is better then the other. While the fact is that both system works for specific gamemodes.
But it doesn't change the fact the current class system is unpopular to the community. It's been proven time and time again and there is nothing that will changes this. People can whine about it all they want.
In pub play? Too many to count.
In competitive? Small alterations. But perhaps you're conflating 'most viable in a competitive environment' with 'OP', which of course aren't the same thing.
There’s probably close to a 100% chance that some people voting on reddit also voted on forums, and? There’s no way of saying if the overlap was rather large or small, though I think it is somewhere in the middle. Don’t call me out for not saying something that is pretty obvious. I might have bumped the number, since I do not know the exact number of people voting on reddit, so yeah, if that’s the case - mea culpa. EDIT: Seems like it would be around 650 inputs with reddit.
Orion already gave all of us a well-constructed reply and if you want to neglect that one, go on. You keep fighting against all the people giving negative feedback and asking for changes because you think that people on forum only represent the opinions of minority. I am honestly tired of that, feedback is always given by the “minority” that is actually active on more “platforms” than just in-game. Should TW not act when there are maybe up to hundreds of people hoping for changes? Or just neglect the feedback because those hundreds do not represent the thousands?
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The second, especially if the thousands are happily playing the game.
tbh didnt see that many class posts on reddit most complain about the combat (block delay) and siege crashes. You shouldnt listen to small vocal groups for changes (this one is litterly just a revert) or you will never be able to develop anything meanigful and innovative.
They just need to add more choices, more customisation for each class. Let's not fool ourselves, the warband system didnt have that Much customisation, you were playing one of 3 classes and choosing your équipement. If they add more customisation to the class it becomes pretty close to the warband system
You keep saying that, have you a source?
People are dropping like flies... Yes, thousands may be playing... but you've no clue if they are happily playing or not. I'm playing, I'm not too happy with the state of the game, or the fact the devs feel shackled to a ****ty meme class system chasing other games trends instead of what made people love the MP in their previous title. But more concerning is that many more people should be playing then are playing.
Those numbers don't lie, people are speaking with their feet, which is also pretty obvious from the numbers of people trying to find matches a few weeks ago compared to now.
And that seems to be the case here with the complaining about the class system.
Yeah it totally has nothing to do with the fact that the game is incomplete, the siege servers are crashing by cooldown, that there's literally nothing to do yet apart from badge grinding and you can't even setup your own server. Yeah, it's just the class system, nothing else.You keep saying that, have you a source?
People are dropping like flies... Yes, thousands may be playing... but you've no clue if they are happily playing or not. I'm playing, I'm not too happy with the state of the game, or the fact the devs feel shackled to a ****ty meme class system chasing other games trends instead of what made people love the MP in their previous title. But more concerning is that many more people should be playing then are playing.
Those numbers don't lie, people are speaking with their feet, which is also pretty obvious from the numbers of people trying to find matches a few weeks ago compared to now.
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