WHY is the class system staying?

Kylbee

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Here is the thread on Reddit that leads to a response on the top voted comment, stating that the class system will be staying despite the overwhelming negative feedback against it. On a side note, quite an informative thread.

"The class system will stay, but there is a lot of room for its evolution related to troop stats, weapons and perks. We are doing a lot of testing to allow players more meaningful and impactful options. Right now we believe that the classes and perks are not as fun as they can be, but as I said, we are approaching the issue from multiple angles and testing a lot of changes."

I just want to know why. We truly dislike it. And I'm going to be blunt.. As soon as mod support is released to the community, all of that hard work you guys are attempting to do is going to be left in the dust to people who revert the equipment selection back to how it was in Warband.


My take on it is that it is extremely restrictive in the sense that it forces me to equip things that I don't even want, and it makes the community lose player identity (unique customization in a way that people can recognize each other on the battlefield). I also can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be forced to play a peasant class. Most people don't care about "making an impactful decision" when choosing a class. They just want to pick the equipment they want and play.
 
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Tork789

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the overwhelming negative feedback against it
And you say that based on what? The thread itself has 317 upvotes, and the top comment dissing the class system has 173 points. Unless I'm missing something I think it's hard to judge.
 

Kylbee

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And you say that based on what? The thread itself has 317 upvotes, and the top comment dissing the class system has 173 points. Unless I'm missing something I think it's hard to judge.
Based on when it was originally introduced as an idea, all the way through beta, and up until now. It has always been negatively received and continues to be a problem as they are not even close to being implemented correctly. And they probably never will be.

No one in that thread praises the class system either.
 

Tork789

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Based on when it was originally introduced as an idea, all the way through beta, and up until now. It has always been negatively received and continues to be a problem as they are not even close to being implemented correctly. And they probably never will be.

No one in that thread praises the class system either.
Well, non of it suggests that the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. People playing the game is also a feedback, just because there are a few hundred people not happy with the system doesn't mean the fun should be ruined for the thousands simply enjoying the game.
 

Kylbee

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Well, non of it suggests that the feedback is overwhelmingly negative. People playing the game is also a feedback, just because there are a few hundred people not happy with the system doesn't mean the fun should be ruined for the thousands simply enjoying the game.
Brother, I'm talking about the feedback since the beginning of the implementation of the class system. Not just that specific reddit thread alone. The class system works for Captain Mode. But it does not have a place in any other of the game modes.

A few hundred unhappy people is all that's left of the MP community anyways as it stands.
 

Tork789

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Brother, I'm talking about the feedback since the beginning of the implementation of the class system. Not just that specific reddit thread alone. The class system works for Captain Mode. But it does not have a place in any other of the game modes.

A few hundred unhappy people is all that's left of the MP community anyways as it stands.
I was among those who initially met the new system with negativity, we even made a petition to get back the battle mode. But I changed my mind over time. I think it sits pretty well in skirmish and siege as well. I don't play TDM much to judge how well it sits there though.

If the few hundred is all that's left it just means TW should try something else and bring fresh blood.
 

Kylbee

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I was among those who initially met the new system with negativity, we even made a petition to get back the battle mode. But I changed my mind over time. I think it sits pretty well in skirmish and siege as well. I don't play TDM much to judge how well it sits there though.

If the few hundred is all that's left it just means TW should try something else and bring fresh blood.
We'll agree to disagree. I play Skirmish competitively and the class system has turned it into a "meta" of playing a certain class for a couple of rounds to get a third respawn, rather than people picking what they truly specialize in to have a meaningful impact for their team.

Here is a very recent thread showing proof of overwhelming negativity.

 

Tork789

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We'll agree to disagree. I play Skirmish competitively and the class system has turned it into a "meta" of playing a certain class for a couple of rounds to get a third respawn, rather than people picking what they truly specialize in to have a meaningful impact for their team.

Here is a very recent thread showing proof of overwhelming negativity.

The "meta" existed in Warband as well, meaning that everyone used the same equipment for each class and used the same drops, so in a way it was similar to what we have now. But what lacked is the amount of possible classes you could use from the start. For example you couldn't go heavy inf, archer of cav since you needed to grind the gold for a few rounds before you got access to better equipment - and since we ended up playing first to 3, a lot of equipment was rarely used if it all, I always thought that it was unsatisfactory and the new system solves that among many other problems.

Oh and the proof thread also has 171 votes in total. I wonder how many of those are the same people upvoting on reddit.
 

DainMorgot

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The class system stays because TW cannot accept their defeat when it comes to bad implementation. Nobody likes the class system as it is, I dont know about the beta, but for the early access part the opinions are 90% negative at least on skirmish and siege. I dont really care about captain mode at all.
 

Kylbee

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The "meta" existed in Warband as well, meaning that everyone used the same equipment for each class and used the same drops, so in a way it was similar to what we have now. But what lacked is the amount of possible classes you could use from the start. For example you couldn't go heavy inf, archer of cav since you needed to grind the gold for a few rounds before you got access to better equipment - and since we ended up playing first to 3, a lot of equipment was rarely used if it all, I always thought that it was unsatisfactory and the new system solves that among many other problems.

Oh and the proof thread also has 171 votes in total. I wonder how many of those are the same people upvoting on reddit.
Like I said, we'll agree to disagree. I played competitively in Warband as well and I can assure you, not everyone used the same equipment for each class. There was depth in choosing your equipment. If you knew the other team were very skilled archers, but weak on cav, the infantry would replace spears with javelins w/o having to sacrifice shield strength.

I'll agree with you that is similar in a way, but it is very restrictive to force people to wear/equip things they would rather not have.

I very much enjoyed sacrificing my helmet to equip a heavier torso, for example. Or having the ability to choose a shorter sword without having to pay more gold just because it's in a separate class.
 

Tork789

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Like I said, we'll agree to disagree. I played competitively in Warband as well and I can assure you, not everyone used the same equipment for each class. There was depth in choosing your equipment. If you knew the other team were very skilled archers, but weak on cav, the infantry would replace spears with javelins w/o having to sacrifice shield strength.

I'll agree with you that is similar in a way, but it is very restrictive to force people to wear/equip things they would rather not have.

I very much enjoyed sacrificing my helmet to equip a heavier torso, for example. Or having the ability to choose a shorter sword without having to pay more gold just because it's in a separate class.
Of course I'm not forcing you to accept my pov so indeed agree to disagree, but like I said, I believe they are very similar and the choice is about as restrictive when it comes to competitive play, since it narrows down the amount of "viable" choices, which is about the same in BL or more thanks to the perks. I believe when TW finishes polishing it, it will be so obviously better that even those who complain now will admit it.

Now where the new system is lacking is the casual aspect, since I believe the equipment choice will matter a lot more for roleplaying in mods like CRPG, PW, etc. There I would actually like the old system be implemented, since there I wouldn't care as much about "viable" choices as much as freedom of expression.
 

DainMorgot

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Of course I'm not forcing you to accept my pov so indeed agree to disagree, but like I said, I believe they are very similar and the choice is about as restrictive when it comes to competitive play, since it narrows down the amount of "viable" choices, which is about the same in BL or more thanks to the perks. I believe when TW finishes polishing it, it will be so obviously better that even those who complain now will admit it.

Now where the new system is lacking is the casual aspect, since I believe the equipment choice will matter a lot more for roleplaying in mods like CRPG, PW, etc. There I would actually like the old system be implemented, since there I wouldn't care as much about "viable" choices as much as freedom of expression.
Wrong, the most choices are non-viable in Bannerlord and perks is a bad system. Class system brings nothing to the table over a more free system because as mentioned, free systems already have more passive depth in viability. It's already proven that the class system is unenjoyable design because the game is literally on the brink of dead population. And class system is one of the top 3 reasons. CRPG is not an 'RP' mod, it's the mod that fistly took the system of native and skyrocketed its freedom of choice while implementing constant progression. After that, it was mercs. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and I doubt you actually spent time on those mods.
 

๖Kern

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It is a completely fine assumption when you say that the class system was met with overwhelmingly negative opinions. There have been 500 people voting on forums, from which 350 voted that they want the Warband system back. Now, it seems like the same thing was mirrored on reddit, where most of the opinions on it were negative. I'd easily go as far as saying that the system isn't liked by 70% of the players.
 

KSHMR

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In my honest opinion, the class system at this moment in time is indeed quite restrictive. However, as stated, the developers are working on expanding the options for this class layout system. In any case, we don't exactly know what they have in mind for the future. It could very well be that they add more classes or that each class gets more than the currently available three customization options.

I also want to point out that you are being quite dramatic over something that will potentially be something great.

There are less trolls in bannerlord because people cannot spawn naked. In Warband you had these trolls that would literally spawn without armour or weapons and run around doing nothing. This goes for siege but also battle servers. So if you want to know my opinion on that (and probably many people agree with me here), I kind of like that.
I also like that the game forces you to take a balanced outfit (even though some set-ups like Fiann 2h need massive nerving).
 

DainMorgot

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It literally has RP in the name...
You said RP as if its it's different from warband. Warband is an rpg-action game, so I guess you said RP because of actual roleplaying aspect which is not really true, since CRPG was consisting of some of the most hardcore pvpers and clearly was not an 'RP' mod.

There are less trolls in bannerlord because people cannot spawn naked.
No, there are less trolls on bannerlord because the game has the population of a village.
 

KSHMR

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I have more than 4000 hours on Warband and only 2 out of these 4000 are for the CRPG Mod. I guess this gives you an idea about how much I like your idea :grin:
 

DainMorgot

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I have more than 4000 hours on Warband and only 2 out of these 4000 are for the CRPG Mod. I guess this gives you an idea about how much I like your idea :grin:
Then you clearly developed bad taste, because if you come from CRPG which I doubt, and you claim that the class system has the chance to become something amazing implying that it will ever be better than free-gear customization and you actually endorse developers forcing you to wear outfits they like then my comment about your bad taste is clearly accurate.
 

KSHMR

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I understand your point of view. All I am saying is that you should wait it out a bit because the class system might become more customizable than you would expect.

Anyways, CRPG is great as a mod for those that like the grinding and all. But this is not the main idea of the game XD