Which leveling system do you prefer Warband or Bannerlord?

[Gamersaufromage]

They just need to balance some of them like scooting or Medecine and they need to give extra point every 2 lvl or 2 extra points every 3 lvl !

 

[bantad87]

Steward is currently the fastest leveling skill, i'd say it levels up faster than it should. Medicine is leveling fine. Leadership, as stated, is bugged.

I agree with everything here, except leadership being bugged. I went from about 7 leadership to 68 leadership in about 2 hours, simply by commanding Armies.The larger the army, the faster it rises. Leadership is gated behind becoming a powerful clan, where you can begin exercising your influence to take command - which to me makes sense. Anyway, just wanted to point out that the skill does actually level once you get to the later stages of the game.

 

[bantad87]

Personally I can't stand the new system and my biggest hope is for a total rework into the older (better( system. I'm curious to see how many feel the same way.

My biggest issues with the Bannerlord leveling system are:

• Inconsequential choices. (You don't really feel the impact of any choices outside of the minor annoyance of more/less save scumming.)
• Grindy as all hell. (It brings with it the WORST aspect of the Elder Scrolls games. Where you just repeat the same metagame stuff over and over to grind skills.)
• Disjointed stats that do nothing but raise skill caps. (They are just entirely pointless. Either give them a use or remove them.)
• Companions never level. (They also start with FAR too many combat skills. They simply outclass you entirely.)
• Soft/Hard effective level capping. (You reach a point where you can't level without skillups, but you can't get skillups unless you level.)
• The focus system in unintuitive. (Sure you get a modifier on skill increases, but you can just grind more to get those increases, effectively it's just a cap increase.)
• The fact that skills have arbitrary cap limits to begin with. (See the points above.)
• Unclear concepts of what you actually have to do to raise some skills. (Why wasn't someone hired to make proper tool tips?)
• Skill leveling speed imbalance. (Some skills take ages to increase. You actually penalize yourself at creation by assigning points to quick leveling skills.)

In summation I find the entirely system overly complicated, inferior, and more limiting that the system most of us have used for the past 15 years. I think the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies here in spades. There is a reason you don't need to reinvent the wheel. It works, leave it alone.

It's pretty clear that you don't actually see the real meaning behind the skill system. It's designed to gate you to rudimentary level skills on anything you don't focus on. The more skills you focus on, the lower your skill cap becomes in those skills - because of your need to spend focus / attributes across a wide variety of skills.

This limits jack of all trades characters to being just "ok" at a bunch of skills, whereas specializing in a skill will allow you to reach mastery. This promotes character specialization.

 

[Mppqlmd]

I agree with everything here, except leadership being bugged. I went from about 7 leadership to 68 leadership in about 2 hours, simply by commanding Armies.The larger the army, the faster it rises. Leadership is gated behind becoming a powerful clan, where you can begin exercising your influence to take command - which to me makes sense. Anyway, just wanted to point out that the skill does actually level once you get to the later stages of the game.

That's good to know, but the tooltip says the skill will go up when "keeping up high moral", which it totally does not do, that's why i call it bugged.

 

[ErrorMcJigg]

I so far prefer the Bannerlord system on paper. But I like small incremental changes that emulate natural growth over a sudden burst of power. I've seen lords swinging swords much faster than my character, are we 100% sure the skill level means nothing?

Yes, gains need to be looked at, but I like that trade goes up by trading. In Warband, trade only went up by killing people. Not putting focus in medicine shouldn't mean I don't level it at all. If it's a implemented as a proper soft cap, it just means it levels slower.

There will always be issues with power leveling, no matter the system. It just changes from 'spam doing x' instead of 'grind x mob for xp'. It's also a player habit that will never fully be defeated. Even D&D has those just looking to min max.

There may be some who question the newness of my forum account. My original account, just named 'McJigg' I lost access to, it's connected to an e-mail account I deleted years ago. Steam says I got Warband on April 7th, 2010. 4 days short of a decade.

I have a campaign with over 1600 days in Warsword Conquest, I've done 3 complete playthroughs of Last Days of the Third Age and am a large fan of Perisno. It's not only people new to the series who like the new system. I don't like every change in Bannerlord, but with a proper balancing pass I think this leveling system will be better.

 

[DrDruGs]

When I first started playing, I thought that warbands leveling system was way better, however the Bannerlord way of doing things has grown on me and I actually enjoy it now more than warband now.
There are still imbalances and after a point it becomes seriously grindy, some of the reason for this is bugs (like stuff you do dont give you xp etc), other reason is that some skills aren't used as much no matter what character you're building.
Looking forward to seeing the system tweaked and the bugs fixed !

 

[Gmaxhunter]

I prefer the current skill system, though I think some skills should be possible to increase in other ways. A few examples off the top of my head:

- Leadership should be easier to increase, currently it levels far too slowly even with morale at a near constant 60. Perhaps getting a lot of personal kills should keep morale high longer, or they could add event pop ups where you could trade certain resources for skill gain in Leadership. The food variety element from Stewardship should either be moved to leadership or split between the two, as well.

- Roguery should receive an all-new element by adding the ability to sell goods at a black market, which would work like Starsector and give the player notoriety that scales with the amount of goods they sell illegally. Not all criminals raid villages or caravans, after all.

- The Arena should allow players to skill up while participating both in practice fights and tournaments. To balance this, make time pass every time the player joins a fight or tournament, effectivelly putting a cap on skill gain per day.

There's obviously many more. These suggestions couldn't exist without the new interesting skill system, though, so I would like to reiterate that I really prefer it. Warband had a very stale and uninteresting skill system all in all, where everything was just leveled by killing, essentially - not very interesting, nor did it mesh well with certain character builds.

1+

 

[kalarhan]

New system is fine, but the speed needs a review.

something like:

year Level
1. 10
2. 16
3. 20
5. 26
10. 31
20. 36 (and also close to death, old age)

And combine with companions that grow and complement your skills like in Warband.

note: keep in mind that campaign is bugged right now, but should last for decades

 

[Gmaxhunter]

I'm sorry but I don't really buy that argument. I want to be a good leader, but leveling leadership is neigh impossible to do without a decent influence income.

If I want to focus on the smithing skillset because I value what it gives me, doesn't mean I enjoy the way and pace that smithing is leveled at.

To level charm for example... a skill I might interested in, it says I need to socialise with nobles... Okay, that involves clicking through the same 3-4 stock conservations like 500 times or what?

A lot of these skills are simply not enjoyable or viable to actually level up, despite the fact that I may well find their benefit useful and interesting

that's life for me, okay... but this is a game.

1- It's actually easy when you have an economy going. Just create another party and then call them to arms, it will level your leadership up while costing you no influence, just cash.

2- I completely agree, smithing is not good right now, too much work and waiting for too little result.

3- I have no idea, and would like to know too, as I think it may be useful sometimes.

Let's just agree that the system itself is good, but it's very barebones at the moment. The old system wasn't nearly as realistic or even rewarding. Think of it, you can actually level up without ever fighting or questing now, how awesome is that?

 

[vota dc]

Stats could give something more than just raising the cap of the 3 related skills, for example vigor +1 hp or social +1 party.

It's better than Bannerlords system of fighting 1000 Vlandian makes you better at... absolutely nothing.

I mean just think about it. You have to kill HUNDREDS of people with your sword... for something like a 4% damage increase. There have been a LOT of skilled sword combatants in history and not a damn one of them ever killed a thousand men with his sword. Skills in life generally increase through study. Experience was just a natural way to represent the progression of your characters. You don't get better with a sword by stabbing 100 people in the back with it, you get better by practicing.

Experience/Levels is an artificial system, but at the end of the day it's still more logical than "kill 10000 people with your sword."

With zero focus points you get the 25 value and you can choose between that +4% damage increase or the +3 hp. After 25 without focus point is slow. After 50 even with focus points maxed is a lot slower than warband proficiency (expecially with weapon mastery). Some skills like smithing seems slow to increase even from 5 to 10.

 

[Tiberius_Invictus]

Has anyone else crunched the numbers on this? Per the game design the maximum level is 24, which means the last perks in every skill tree are pointless because it's literally impossible to obtain any of them!

Here's the proof by the numbers:

You start the game with 18 attribute points, 12 focus points, and 210 skill points.

Each focus point increases your skill cap by 30 in a single skill and each attribute point increases your skill cap by 10 in 3 skills.
6 attribute points are wasted because the first point in each attribute doesn't increase any caps. This means your cap on total skills at level 1 is 720.

Now, each level up requires gaining skill points equal to your current level x 5. If you take the total cumulative skill points gained to get to level 24, the number is 1380. (5+10+15+20+25, etc.)

At level 24, you have gained 23 more focus points and 8 more attribute points, increasing your total skill cap to 1660. Now remember, you started with 210 and have gained 1380, so at level 24 you have 1590 skill points.

Now you have a problem, because to get to level 25 requires 125 more skill points, but you can only gain 70 before you've maxed out every skill. This means that EVEN IF YOU ACHIEVE THE MAXIMUM IN EVERY SKILL AVAILABLE, THE MAX POSSIBLE LEVEL IS 24!

To make matters worse, the final perks in each skill tree require 275 skill points. Because of how skill caps work, you would need 5 focus points and 14 attribute points (remember the first attribute point is wasted) to get your skill cap above 275.

Where the hell are you going to get 14 attribute points?!? You only get 8 before you hit max level, so unless you answered questions that gave you 6 attribute points in the related attribute at time of character creation and allocated every attribute point gained from leveling up to that attribute, the final perk is not available to you!!

So yes, the current leveling system is broken.

 

[Revenant342]

I really dislike the hard skill caps based on focuses and think they're a bad system. Would be nice if they were multipliers before you hit them, then you just get standard gain after.

 

[stevehoos]

I don't like the system, and part of it is because it doesn't work.

 

[Tiberius_Invictus]

The current system is objectively broken. Per the game design the maximum level is 24, which means the last perks in every skill tree are pointless because it's literally impossible to obtain any of them!

Here's the proof by the numbers:

You start the game with 18 attribute points, 12 focus points, and 210 skill points.

Each focus point increases your skill cap by 30 in a single skill and each attribute point increases your skill cap by 10 in 3 skills.
6 attribute points are wasted because the first point in each attribute doesn't increase any caps. This means your cap on total skills at level 1 is 720.

Now, each level up requires gaining skill points equal to your current level x 5. If you take the total cumulative skill points gained to get to level 24, the number is 1380. (5+10+15+20+25, etc.)

At level 24, you have gained 23 more focus points and 8 more attribute points, increasing your total skill cap to 1660. Now remember, you started with 210 and have gained 1380, so at level 24 you have 1590 skill points.

Now you have a problem, because to get to level 25 requires 125 more skill points, but you can only gain 70 before you've hit your max. This means that EVEN IF YOU HIT THE HARD CAP IN EVERY SKILL AVAILABLE, THE MAX POSSIBLE LEVEL IS 24!

To make matters worse, the final perks in each skill tree require 275 skill points. Because of how skill caps work, you would need 5 focus points and 14 attribute points (remember the first attribute point is wasted) to get your skill cap above 275.

Where the hell are you going to get 14 attribute points?!? You only get 8 before you hit max level, so unless you answered questions that gave you 6 attribute points in the related attribute at time of character creation and allocated every attribute point gained from leveling up to that attribute, the final perk is not available to you!!

So yes, the current leveling system is broken.

 

[paladinx333]

I now own two nice warhorses (and a camel) that I won in tournaments. They all require 90 riding skill. My character will most likely die of old age before he ever has the riding skill to use them. Getting skill on polearms seems to work okay. Getting skill in riding, not so much.

 

[Jhaerik]

The current system is objectively broken. Per the game design the maximum level is 24, which means the last perks in every skill tree are pointless because it's literally impossible to obtain any of them!

Here's the proof by the numbers:

You start the game with 18 attribute points, 12 focus points, and 210 skill points.

Each focus point increases your skill cap by 30 in a single skill and each attribute point increases your skill cap by 10 in 3 skills.
6 attribute points are wasted because the first point in each attribute doesn't increase any caps. This means your cap on total skills at level 1 is 720.

Now, each level up requires gaining skill points equal to your current level x 5. If you take the total cumulative skill points gained to get to level 24, the number is 1380. (5+10+15+20+25, etc.)

At level 24, you have gained 23 more focus points and 8 more attribute points, increasing your total skill cap to 1660. Now remember, you started with 210 and have gained 1380, so at level 24 you have 1590 skill points.

Now you have a problem, because to get to level 25 requires 125 more skill points, but you can only gain 70 before you've hit your max. This means that EVEN IF YOU HIT THE HARD CAP IN EVERY SKILL AVAILABLE, THE MAX POSSIBLE LEVEL IS 24!

To make matters worse, the final perks in each skill tree require 275 skill points. Because of how skill caps work, you would need 5 focus points and 14 attribute points (remember the first attribute point is wasted) to get your skill cap above 275.

Where the hell are you going to get 14 attribute points?!? You only get 8 before you hit max level, so unless you answered questions that gave you 6 attribute points in the related attribute at time of character creation and allocated every attribute point gained from leveling up to that attribute, the final perk is not available to you!!

So yes, the current leveling system is broken.

Yep. That fact that people can't see this is just painful to me.

 

[ErrorMcJigg]

Yep. That fact that people can't see this is just painful to me.

I think it's more along the lines of we realize it's a work in progress. Unfinished game, it's had 0 balancing. As it is right this minute isn't how we're judging it.

 

[stevehoos]

Not a great start out of the gate for the new system.

 

[Dathalidus]

Personally I can't stand the new system and my biggest hope is for a total rework into the older (better( system. I'm curious to see how many feel the same way.

My biggest issues with the Bannerlord leveling system are:

• Inconsequential choices. (You don't really feel the impact of any choices outside of the minor annoyance of more/less save scumming.)
• Grindy as all hell. (It brings with it the WORST aspect of the Elder Scrolls games. Where you just repeat the same metagame stuff over and over to grind skills.)
• Disjointed stats that do nothing but raise skill caps. (They are just entirely pointless. Either give them a use or remove them.)
• Companions never level. (They also start with FAR too many combat skills. They simply outclass you entirely.)
• Soft/Hard effective level capping. (You reach a point where you can't level without skillups, but you can't get skillups unless you level.)
• The focus system in unintuitive. (Sure you get a modifier on skill increases, but you can just grind more to get those increases, effectively it's just a cap increase.)
• The fact that skills have arbitrary cap limits to begin with. (See the points above.)
• Unclear concepts of what you actually have to do to raise some skills. (Why wasn't someone hired to make proper tool tips?)
• Skill leveling speed imbalance. (Some skills take ages to increase. You actually penalize yourself at creation by assigning points to quick leveling skills.)

In summation I find the entirely system overly complicated, inferior, and more limiting that the system most of us have used for the past 15 years. I think the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies here in spades. There is a reason you don't need to reinvent the wheel. It works, leave it alone.

I agree, its very grind heavy not much fun tbh considering lord and what not have like 280 some combat skills

 

[Lamias]

I am confused.

If the current system gets optimized and doesn't feel grindy anymore, will you all like it?

Or do you prefer to have your character become a master trader simply because he killed 100 looters? Because that's what the old system was. Sure, it was WORKING, but it wasn't GOOD in my opinion.

A GOOD system for me is a system that rewards me only if I try. Finding good trade deals and making profit makes me better at trading, and that makes me happy.

I am sorry but I don't want to have a lvl 40 godlike character that is the best fighter, commander, pathfinder, surgeon, engineer and trader in all of Calradia. This kills all the fun. If this happens, I want it to happen because I actually tried to learn all these things.

The new system needs MUCH improvement and optimization to decrease grinding and make skills matter, but its philosophy is better for me.