Which leveling system do you prefer Warband or Bannerlord?

[LeChat]

Yes, it is buggy. Does not impact the choice.

 

[Brandbjorn]

I'm level 12, yet I got an army packed with highest tier troops, I own a castle, level 3/4 clan, constantly rocking armies of 100+, plus caravans, plus workshops, and yet all my companions are like level 16-20.


It's taken me forever just to get to level 12. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Real talk, field combat isn't even a challenge when it gets to that point, I'm only like 72 in polearms, yet:

Got the Voulge (A relatively cheap T5 polearm that can couch, be used as a one handed spear, AND as an OP swinging polearm) , got on a horse, and congrats! I can now one hit kill literally any unit on a swing. Yes, even the level 31 units and enemy heroes.

I feel like that level of ridiculousness should be an end-game thing, not barely mid level..

 

[Mppqlmd]

I like how the majority of people choose Bannerlords system when half of the perks don't even work at all. Just saying!

When you're playing an EA game, the perspective of content count as much as the actual content. It doesn't work, but we see where it's going (or where it could go) and we like it.

 

[Nordmann]

I prefer Bannerlord, but it needs a lot of work. It's painfully slow, and a little unclear in places, however it's a step on the right direction.

 

[Sundeki]

Right now? Warband. I'm not inherently opposed to this new system, it's just that right now the rate of growth, and when you get growth, and when you can't get growth is so abysmally broken that it makes levelling a chore(rather that feel rewarding), and extremely quickly you find your level growth completely stagnant. This model of levelling system needs a total rework, and then it could be good. Until then, however; Warband's system is objectively superior, for the time being.

Definitely Bannerlord's system. In Warband you gain levels through exp and you can spend it on any skill you want. That made no sense. Why should fighting 100 Swadians help me increase my engineering?
The Bannerlord system's much better but needs balancing and fixing around exp gain and stuff.

What skills does a character level up while resting in a town, right now? None. That doesn't make any sense, right? You could be doing a huge number of different things with your spare time, even while moving around the campaign map. Warband's system of being able to assign points to non-combat skills after leveling up due to combat was an indirect way of saying "If your character was real, it would be doing other things in his/her spare time, learning new skills and honing their crafts". But since Mount & Blade is first and foremost a medieval combat game series, the core gameplay loop will always be combat, so tying the growth of non-combat skills to combat doesn't take away from those skills since everyone who is actually playing the game will be doing that.

Right now in Bannerlord, your character's growth stagnates for no reason, and there's no mechanism through which you can learn many skills like you would in real life (e.g instruction or reading). Bannerlord's levelling system is less unrealistic and makes less sense than Warband's, ironically.

 

[Wolfsblut]

Should have been a third choice "Bannerlord with a heavy rework."
If someone is telling me they like the actual system with the perks like they are and the feeling of progression you get,
they didn't have played the game for more than 2 hours without cheats.

Even if you like the modern, shallow crap where you don't skill but only brain-afk level your char, the leveling should make sense at least.
The perks don't do mostly. At all.
I can just hope that not too much of it is hard coded and some modders are able to make something rpgish out of it.
Otherwise at least the perks should be reworked... preferably from someone who played the game for some hours...

 

[Mppqlmd]

What skills does a character level up while resting in a town, right now? None. That doesn't make any sense, right?

Medecine. Steward. Smithing. Leadership (or at least it's supposed to, and will when it's fixed).

But since Mount & Blade is first and foremost a medieval combat game series, the core gameplay loop will always be combat, so tying the growth of non-combat skills to combat doesn't take away from those skills since everyone who is actually playing the game will be doing that.

No. M&B is not Chivalry or For Honor. It's an squad managment, army builder game that lets you transition from a commoner to a mercenary captain to a lord to a king. Warband had one HUGE issue : your progress what only made by the people you kill. You. Personnally. As if your skills concerning leadership, trade, management, diplomacy, would be tied to your killcount, which is an absurd and extremely gamey notion.

Bannerlord tries something else : your skill with diplomacy will increase when you do diplomacy. Same with engineering. Same with trade. Right now it does not work as intended, so of course WB is currently superior, but the logic behind the BL system (and thus its potentiel) is vastly superior to WB.

 

[Brentimus Maximus]

It feels way too early to try to make a decision on this. We had ten years to experiment with Warband so lets give Bannerlord more than a week. My initial opinion is that I like the concept but I have yet to feel a meaningful impact on my gameplay. That said, I'm really just digging into the mechanics.

 

[Shrugging Khan]

I generally like how the grindy system actually marries skill gains to carrying out relevant activities. No more becoming a trader by bashing people's heads in, or becoming strong and athletic by doing diplomatic quests. It's better for immersion, and generally makes skill gains feel more deserved.

But as it is, the system has a lot of problems. The perks, for one, seem very arbitrary in every way. In terms of what effects they entail, what other effects they are exclusive with, what order they show up in...

I'd suggest just making the perks a list and letting us pick one for every X skill points we gain, with no exclusives. I'd also make the ones that provide a +x% bonus to some attribute repeatable and stackable a few times, so you can actually build up a stat that's important to you.

At least in Warband, when you invested in a skill you got exactly what it promised, and not a weird collection of semi-related effects.

 

[vahadar]

I am curious to see how many people actually played Warband during the beta (before 2010), or even the original M&B when it was still a shareware. Myself i was pretty not happy with Warband release, many features were there but not polished. And it took them many years for them to make Warband the great game it is now.

This is the same with Bannerlord, exept that this game has MUCH more feature than Warband had when initially released. Above all the UI is, and i guess most will admit it, absolutly fabulous. And having played M&B since 15 years i can say (just my opinion) that this one is the best, unpolished for sure, but a SOLID base for improvement, thanks to player input (like this thread).
So any random guy (even if random veteran) coming here to say, hey scrap the game, i prefer old working stuff, sorry but i tend to not listen to Stick to your old stuff and let others enjoy the game as flawed as it is, and promising as it could be. I prefer constructive post with people expressing their thought on how to improve the game leveling system (this is for OP), and not just scrap this, it sucks, before was better and such (his previous reaction with the REFUNDED thread)...

 

[Sundeki]

Medecine. Steward. Smithing. Leadership (or at least it's supposed to, and will when it's fixed).

None of them have gone up in 20 hours of play(smithing has, but only from physically smithing objects in the smithy). Like I've said, I'm not inherently opposed to the new system if they totally rework it so it makes sense, but right now it's makes no sense at all.

No. M&B is not Chivalry or For Honor. It's an squad managment, army builder game that lets you transition from a commoner to a mercenary captain to a lord to a king. Warband had one HUGE issue : your progress what only made by the people you kill. You. Personnally. As if your skills concerning leadership, trade, management, diplomacy, would be tied to your killcount, which is an absurd and extremely gamey notion.

Bannerlord tries something else : your skill with diplomacy will increase when you do diplomacy. Same with engineering. Same with trade. Right now it does not work as intended, so of course WB is currently superior, but the logic behind the BL system (and thus its potentiel) is vastly superior to WB.

Well I don't even know what to say, really. Who isn't playing Mount & Blade for it's combat? Also, while individual combat is a key element to character growth in Warband, it's not the only one. You gain exp based on Trainer skill of people in your party, and you gain exp from quests. There was several different sources, but considering that combat is the main draw of the series, of course you're going to get the most exp from combat, and more if you're effective in it.

And yes, I agree, if things actually worked in Bannerlord, it would probably be better, which is why I'm not inherently opposed to it. But it doesn't work as intended right now, and even if it did it would need a total rework to focus points, skill experience, skill limits, and interaction capabilites in order to not become a boring grind after level 15. Warband's system was more indirect, and wasn't trying to be anything that it wasn't, and from the perspective of representing individual talent/growth from a game that didn't really have many possible interactions. I also never felt myself stagnating until I was an absolute beast.

 

[Mppqlmd]

None of them have gone up in 20 hours of play(smithing has, but only from physically smithing objects in the smithy). Like I've said, I'm not inherently opposed to the new system if they totally rework it so it makes sense, but right now it's makes no sense at all.

Steward is currently the fastest leveling skill, i'd say it levels up faster than it should. Medicine is leveling fine. Leadership, as stated, is bugged.

Well I don't even know what to say, really. Who isn't playing Mount & Blade for it's combat?

Again, if i wanted a game that focuses around medieval combat simulation, i'd be playing chivalry. I (personally) love M&B for the journey it offers, for the sandbox personality that lets you start as a nobody and become someone important in a non-scripted environnement. If you play the game for the combat, great, kuddos to you, but anyone wanting to roleplay as a merchant or a general (and not a fighter) in WB was kinda screwed on the leveling aspect. BL tries to fix that by letting you level up by doing what you want to do.

And yes, I agree, if things actually worked in Bannerlord, it would probably be better, which is why I'm not inherently opposed to it.

Then we agree I'm not saying the current system is working as it should, i'm saying that what it tries to be appeals to me, and i have faith in it becoming something excellent based on what we're seeing.

 

[Slav Cossacksson]

In all previous Mount and Blade games, and spinoffs, the player was never given enough skill or attribute points to level everything.

Nobody is asking to level everything to max. Your character already has a finite lifespan to prevent this. No need for VIG, CNG, etc. or skill caps. The stat system they used is an artefact of old turn based RPGs where raw stats determined outcomes rather than manually controlling your character. Outcomes in this game are based on real-time events where the manipulation of your character is what matters.

So explain why I need to play D&D in my M&B?

 

[SirStart]

i think warband had the better leveling system as it made ye be more final with yer choices including ye chose a path from the beginning o wha ye wanted to make out o yer character, the new leveling system in bannerlord is to bland.
ye can be good at everything at once if ye put yer mind to it, its to much skyrim in it tha ye can jump around with the skills which in the end would result in my character being this super fighter in all styles o weapons, the best merchant around and at the same time being the best tactician lord in all o calradia all at the same time, i dont like tha ye earn character points when leveling a skill, as yer bound to get stuck at some point and get forced to level up something yer not interested in at tha game session just to unlock more character points, it kills the rp aspect and immersion o rp

 

[Jhaerik]

Damn dude, I didn't think of it this way. In my 40 hours of game play I've fought every single battle. I guess tonight is going to be more efficient

Ehh on my last campaign I've just auto revolved every single battle in a rush to try to get finances together before the snowballing.... it made no difference, day 168 and it's basically down to 4 kingdoms with 1 well ahead of the others. Going to try again on this new patch.... time to fall half asleep spamming auto revolve again. :/

Also why does it seems most of the people siding with Bannerlord have made an account in the last week?
Did these people even play Warband? Or is this just steam trolls?

 

[Von Winterfeld]

With tweaks and some changes, this new system will be really nice. I'm quite happy with the basics of it at the moment.

 

[Mppqlmd]

Also why does it seems most of the people siding with Bannerlord have made an account in the last week?
Did these people even play Warband? Or is this just steam trolls?

I wonder what's worse... creating a forum account to support a game you're enthusiast about, or buying that game, after refunding it, just to be able to continue complaining about it.

most of the people siding with Bannerlord

Very poor choice of word there. There is no war going on, no conflit for you to fight in. If you dislike the game it's absolutely fine. If i like it, it's absolutely fine. If you dislike its current state but hope it will get better, it's absolutely fine.

 

[giltirn]

I didn't like the Warband leveling system personally. I hate having to worry about builds and whether I'm making the wrong decision. The system of leveling-by-doing is vastly superior as it is much more organic; you get better at the things you do more. Sure some people will grind, but the fact that people obliged to is less a flaw of the system and more a matter of pacing - if leveling happens at a sufficient rate that people feel they are progressing fast enough naturally, they will not so much feel the need to grind. The only issues with the system as it stands, apart from the leveling rate which is way too slow, is that the attributes and focus point system runs counter to the organic system, introducing arbitrary and irritating caps for no reason whatsoever. What's so wrong with being a jack of all trades? If you're willing to put in the time then you should get the reward.

 

[giltirn]

I find it just rather unreal that people don't see this when it is so obvious. Most of the folks in here praising it are not vets of this game, this is obvious.

The choice is in how you choose to spend your time. If I want to be a good bowman, I don't just click a button a few times and magically become a good bowman, rather I have to go out and use a bow a lot, starting off weak and getting better.

If you want to question my credentials, then I have 350 hours in Warband. A drop in the bucket compared to some I know but hardly a fresh-faced scrub.

 

[lakired]

The new system has greater potential and depth... but the implementation is really lacking right now. For one, it's painfully slow and tedious. I also don't like the artificial caps. Just have focus and attributes increase learning speed. Age will naturally limit you from becoming amazing in every skill. There are also some skills that just don't have a lot of opportunity to increase naturally without very gamey methods of grinding, and so having a way to allocate points directly with attribute allocation (or something else) would be good. Finally, perks often don't make sense with their associated skills and should be redone, and you shouldn't be forced out of taking certain perks if you want them later on down the road.