[UNAC] Maps & Weekly Map Pool

[sotamursu123]

No.  Verloren is not bad (not that great either) but even with the change it allows access into the tower...STILL ON THE STRONGEST SIDE.  That means that a tower camp is not countered as the other team will reach the tower first, has immediate access to the ladder first, and the other teams has to flank the whole map to gain either access point.  That doesn't balance the tower, it really just strengthens the already strong spawn for a tower camp.  The real big issue with the map is that a tower camp leads to a front alley camp, which gives the tower the jump on 2 outta 3 masters spawns and not that far from the third.  The market master should be moved to the middle at the base of the tower (which you have to leave the tower to engage with ranged) and the master at the opening to the tunnel moved out of that corner and mirror the master at the other end of the alley.

Why not update to a version which clearly doesn't fix too much but adds small little almost unnoticeable things that make the map more fun to play? It won't really change any tactics or how the map plays out.

Not all "all cav" works on Open plains and once again you're trying to punish teams who have a high level of cav players because of the paradigm you feel teams should fit into.  Your personal opinions are self-serving and rantionalized by what you WANT and not what is best for every team as a whole, therefore rendering it invalid.

I want to punish TMW, the best clan in open plains at the moment? We beat wK at this by going all cav, i guess that tells something already...
Many of these changes would indeed make it harder for TMW, for an example, adding village or removing desert town, which i proposed.

Desert Town
Good map, nothing wrong with it.

But as i said, only if plains is deleted too, to balance out all-cav favouring map's removal by also removing all-inf favouring map.

 

[Calamity]

No.  Verloren is not bad (not that great either) but even with the change it allows access into the tower...STILL ON THE STRONGEST SIDE.  That means that a tower camp is not countered as the other team will reach the tower first, has immediate access to the ladder first, and the other teams has to flank the whole map to gain either access point.  That doesn't balance the tower, it really just strengthens the already strong spawn for a tower camp.  The real big issue with the map is that a tower camp leads to a front alley camp, which gives the tower the jump on 2 outta 3 masters spawns and not that far from the third.  The market master should be moved to the middle at the base of the tower (which you have to leave the tower to engage with ranged) and the master at the opening to the tunnel moved out of that corner and mirror the master at the other end of the alley.

Why not update to a version which clearly doesn't fix too much but adds small little almost unnoticeable things that make the map more fun to play? It won't really change any tactics or how the map plays out.

Not all "all cav" works on Open plains and once again you're trying to punish teams who have a high level of cav players because of the paradigm you feel teams should fit into.  Your personal opinions are self-serving and rantionalized by what you WANT and not what is best for every team as a whole, therefore rendering it invalid.

I want to punish TMW, the best clan in open plains at the moment? We beat wK at this by going all cav, i guess that tells something already...
Many of these changes would indeed make it harder for TMW, for an example, adding village or removing desert town, which i proposed.

Desert Town
Good map, nothing wrong with it.

But as i said, only if plains is deleted too, to balance out all-cav favouring map's removal by also removing all-inf favouring map.

That was Random Plains, not Open Plain.

You won the match. You didn't win Random Plains. 6-5 wK was the score.  Though at some point we had already lost so.. what can ya do.

 

[sotamursu123]

Spoiler

No.  Verloren is not bad (not that great either) but even with the change it allows access into the tower...STILL ON THE STRONGEST SIDE.  That means that a tower camp is not countered as the other team will reach the tower first, has immediate access to the ladder first, and the other teams has to flank the whole map to gain either access point.  That doesn't balance the tower, it really just strengthens the already strong spawn for a tower camp.  The real big issue with the map is that a tower camp leads to a front alley camp, which gives the tower the jump on 2 outta 3 masters spawns and not that far from the third.  The market master should be moved to the middle at the base of the tower (which you have to leave the tower to engage with ranged) and the master at the opening to the tunnel moved out of that corner and mirror the master at the other end of the alley.

Why not update to a version which clearly doesn't fix too much but adds small little almost unnoticeable things that make the map more fun to play? It won't really change any tactics or how the map plays out.

Not all "all cav" works on Open plains and once again you're trying to punish teams who have a high level of cav players because of the paradigm you feel teams should fit into.  Your personal opinions are self-serving and rantionalized by what you WANT and not what is best for every team as a whole, therefore rendering it invalid.

I want to punish TMW, the best clan in open plains at the moment? We beat wK at this by going all cav, i guess that tells something already...
Many of these changes would indeed make it harder for TMW, for an example, adding village or removing desert town, which i proposed.

Desert Town
Good map, nothing wrong with it.

But as i said, only if plains is deleted too, to balance out all-cav favouring map's removal by also removing all-inf favouring map.

That was Random Plains, not Open Plain.

You won the match. You didn't win Random Plains. 6-5 wK was the score.  Though at some point we had already lost so.. what can ya do.

A good thing we didn't spend the last spawn trolling blacktide.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

No.  Verloren is not bad (not that great either) but even with the change it allows access into the tower...STILL ON THE STRONGEST SIDE.  That means that a tower camp is not countered as the other team will reach the tower first, has immediate access to the ladder first, and the other teams has to flank the whole map to gain either access point.  That doesn't balance the tower, it really just strengthens the already strong spawn for a tower camp.  The real big issue with the map is that a tower camp leads to a front alley camp, which gives the tower the jump on 2 outta 3 masters spawns and not that far from the third.  The market master should be moved to the middle at the base of the tower (which you have to leave the tower to engage with ranged) and the master at the opening to the tunnel moved out of that corner and mirror the master at the other end of the alley.

Why not update to a version which clearly doesn't fix too much but adds small little almost unnoticeable things that make the map more fun to play? It won't really change any tactics or how the map plays out.

Fun is relative.  If you agree the changes do nothing then why update?  If anything the changes once again, make the stronger side stronger unbalancing further.

Desert Town
Good map, nothing wrong with it.

But as i said, only if plains is deleted too, to balance out all-cav favouring map's removal by also removing all-inf favouring map.

The fact you view the maps this way just show your mind is stuck.  Desert Town doesn't favor all inf.  Our pickup with TMW this past Friday proved 5 ranged + 2 cav countered their all infantry with a score of 4-3, 3-4.  Good match by the way.

Your brain is stuck, Sota, in your own mental paradigms.  Stop posting unasked for opinions that instantly get ripped to shreds till you get it fixed as I fear some fool later down the road might stumble on them and actually listen to you. (read as never, plox)

 

[ClockWise]

To be fair mad, one half-hearted pickup isn't a great judge of that tactic (anyways, the mad inf rushes won the map in the end =p freakin ties though man. freakin ties.), especially after wK did awesome against it using quite a few infantry. Also, I think too much is being made of what an "inf map" or "cav map" is. A map is whatever you want it to be/whatever you're good enough to make it, imo. Just my 2 cents.

I'll leave now before I make someone mad. 

 

[Mad_Dawg]

I think too much is being made of what an "inf map" or "cav map" is. A map is whatever you want it to be/whatever you're good enough to make it, imo. Just my 2 cents.

This is what I'm saying, yo.  ^  Team class composition is a misnomer to what dictates a map.  Sota continually is placing maps in a box that fits his thought process.  It's like him stating, "We played Haranear wrong."  You can't play a map wrong. 
 
Good map = Non-linear + counterable positions + spread and non-favored motf's + quality and thoughout prop placement + basic playability & stability

 

[Gelden]

prop placement

What I really look for in a map personally

 

[Kherven]

Solace is an ok competitive map, it's just a bit boring though. That reason is not enough to delete it however. Agreed river valley and port assault should be deleted. As much as I dislike plains maps for being mostly cav trump all, I can understand why people like it. Personally though I'd like to see variants of open plains and just delete random just to avoid weird swaps and rerolls.

Also dry valley needs serious work and veloran is perfectly fine the way it is

 

[Gelden]

Verloren Update it to it's newest version, the new version makes the middle tower less campable and fixes some other issues. Not that big change, but just fixes some retarded things. and adds a ladder going to the middle tower so you can attack to it from two directions (talking about the top of the tower).

No.  Verloren is not bad (not that great either) but even with the change it allows access into the tower...STILL ON THE STRONGEST SIDE.  That means that a tower camp is not countered as the other team will reach the tower first, has immediate access to the ladder first, and the other teams has to flank the whole map to gain either access point.  That doesn't balance the tower, it really just strengthens the already strong spawn for a tower camp.  The real big issue with the map is that a tower camp leads to a front alley camp, which gives the tower the jump on 2 outta 3 masters spawns and not that far from the third.  The market master should be moved to the middle at the base of the tower (which you have to leave the tower to engage with ranged) and the master at the opening to the tunnel moved out of that corner and mirror the master at the other end of the alley.

The update to Verloren really didn't help the map at all. 

The superior side to push the tower with is the bottom spawn, which gets first access to the roof via the stairs.  In the update, a ladder was added to the very side that already had the advantage - giving that side two access points to the roof.  Had the update added this ladder to the other side, fair game.

After a little bit of testing, it seems the tower isn't much worth to camp anyway.  If your strategy is to make camp until master spawns, there are better positions you can take that are more central to all three flags.

In summary, the map plays pretty well from the matches I've seen and there's no need to update it.

 

[sotamursu123]

The update to Verloren really didn't help the map at all. 

The superior side to push the tower with is the bottom spawn, which gets first access to the roof via the stairs.  In the update, a ladder was added to the very side that already had the advantage - giving that side two access points to the roof.  Had the update added this ladder to the other side, fair game.

After a little bit of testing, it seems the tower isn't much worth to camp anyway.  If your strategy is to make camp until master spawns, there are better positions you can take that are more central to all three flags.

In summary, the map plays pretty well from the matches I've seen and there's no need to update it.

True, but the ladder makes the top of the tower less campable, giving another access to the top which only had access through the stairs before the update. Updating this map is not that big deal but the updated version is indeed better.

 

[Gelden]

The update to Verloren really didn't help the map at all. 

The superior side to push the tower with is the bottom spawn, which gets first access to the roof via the stairs.  In the update, a ladder was added to the very side that already had the advantage - giving that side two access points to the roof.  Had the update added this ladder to the other side, fair game.

After a little bit of testing, it seems the tower isn't much worth to camp anyway.  If your strategy is to make camp until master spawns, there are better positions you can take that are more central to all three flags.

In summary, the map plays pretty well from the matches I've seen and there's no need to update it.

True, but the ladder makes the top of the tower less campable, giving another access to the top which only had access through the stairs before the update. Updating this map is not that big deal but the updated version is indeed better.

I getcha, but I just think it would have made more sense to put it on the other side :/

 

[Kherven]

The update to Verloren really didn't help the map at all. 

The superior side to push the tower with is the bottom spawn, which gets first access to the roof via the stairs.  In the update, a ladder was added to the very side that already had the advantage - giving that side two access points to the roof.  Had the update added this ladder to the other side, fair game.

After a little bit of testing, it seems the tower isn't much worth to camp anyway.  If your strategy is to make camp until master spawns, there are better positions you can take that are more central to all three flags.

In summary, the map plays pretty well from the matches I've seen and there's no need to update it.

True, but the ladder makes the top of the tower less campable, giving another access to the top which only had access through the stairs before the update. Updating this map is not that big deal but the updated version is indeed better.

I getcha, but I just think it would have made more sense to put it on the other side :/

^, the ladder makes it easier for the team that gets to the tower first to take the top faster.

 

[Cradoc]

Judging on the layout, it's slower than taking the stairs.
If you're having problems with archers camping it, avoid it or shoot them in the head.

 

[sotamursu123]

Judging on the layout, it's slower than taking the stairs.
If you're having problems with archers camping it, avoid it or shoot them in the head.

The only problem it might cause is that let's say, a team is losing 2v4. They decide to go camp the tower. That means they survive because 4 guys might even lose if they attack the tower, assuming at least one of those two was archer. In any map if there's a place where a situation like that is possible, the area should be removed, if just for public play. It's like spawns in nord town, except smaller scale. (Btw nord town deleted from EU cuz it's only camping lel)

Spoiler

delete retard camping spots pls

 

[Gelden]

The only problem it might cause is that let's say, a team is losing 2v4. They decide to go camp the tower. That means they survive because 4 guys might even lose if they attack the tower, assuming at least one of those two was archer.

Spoiler

 

[Mad_Dawg]

The only problem it might cause is that let's say, a team is losing 2v4. They decide to go camp the tower. That means they survive because 4 guys might even lose if they attack the tower, assuming at least one of those two was archer.

I rest my case.

 

[Kherven]

Sota...are you trying to say -gasp- that the maps maybe provide positional advantages?! Let the 2 camp tower. They don't get any flags there anyway. Thats why camping tower is not that big of a deal. Does it have a highway to all 3 flags? Yes. Do it contain a flag? no. (Thats where Port Assault fails)

 

[Erminas]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,268902.msg6549370.html#msg6549370

-look at my two posts on that page.Download link is in the second post.

My attempt to improve Port Assault.
However,in case that you find this version better,we definitely should end this season on the original Port Assault.

 

[Rhade]

In regards to map choice, I'd really like to see more maps which allow open, flowing playstyle instead of plenty of cover to camp and wait until master pops.

Haranaer was a good attempt towards the right idea, but bad execution.

 

[Mok the International]

Honestly, if fixed up, and polished, Hareonor could be a fantastic open map. Which we lack. We just need someone to sit down, find what's wrong and take steps to fix those issues.