[UNAC] Maps & Weekly Map Pool

[WilySly]

Why aren't we using the version of Nord Town that's on the IG_Battlegrounds server?  It has ladders up to each spawn.

Seems a little less campy than the one we use now.

 

[Lagstro]

Yea, I recommended that one a while ago. It's a really nice fix to the Nord Town we are using now. The roofs have more access points and can't be abused as much. It can potentially lead to much more aggressive play on Nord Town as it will require more work to successfully spawn camp, and attacking a spawn is much easier and rewarding.

The round robin portion of the tournament is about half over already, and nord town has been played a couple times. So maybe it would be a bit unfair to change it half way through. Maybe we should just wait until next season to change it. But maybe if all 4 teams that make it to the elimination stage agree on it, it can be added into the elimination stage map pool. IMO it could prove to make some very exciting final matches since it would promote a wider range of strategies and more rewarding aggressiveness.

 

[Kherven]

Not an official stance, but the feeling I've gotten from most of the admin team is there will be no more map edits for the rest of the tourny. If there is a UNAC season 2, expect a massive map revamp.

 

[Cradoc]

I hope that we can get an aggressive revamp (not only massive). Get to testing a lot of those maps and hopefully more maps can be modified or made.

Really disappointed that this wasn't the case for CAL/NANL and UNAC.

 

[Mr.X]

Why aren't we using the version of Nord Town that's on the IG_Battlegrounds server?  It has ladders up to each spawn.

Seems a little less campy than the one we use now.

Probably because we refuse everything EU simply because it's EU. Just a guess though.

 

[RoBo_CoP]

Not really that, just being generally uninformed can cause quite a bit of confusion. Taking a look at POM you can see this. Assuming they wanted the maps that were used in the WNL, quite a few of them were rejected, and maps like Shariz Village have been debated against for it's village like properties. If there are any maps from the WNL that would be a nice addition, would be Fort of Honour and the UPDATED Veloren Rat Market. Dry Valley had a lot of potential to be a good map, think if someone was to look at it and fix a couple of the issues with it, would be a great open map.

As far as the vers. of Nord Town on IG is concerned, I would suggest asking someone like Azan about how it plays out if you're looking into it. The spawn positions are still incredibly defensible however, a team doesn't need to leave spawn baring MoTF or to catch someone in a really bad spot. IMO just remove Nord Town and use the pool of other great closed maps to replace it. 

Other than that it's up to you guys to create open maps if you want them. Small bit of advise, no cliffs, no deep water, and don't let one ruin control 3 flags.

 

[African]

The flags on Solace should be reworked.

If those were balanced better it would still be a pretty **** map, but no more **** than a lot of the other maps so I won't argue for its removal entirely.

 

[Kherven]

Dry Valley had a lot of potential to be a good map, think if someone was to look at it and fix a couple of the issues with it, would be a great open map.

I feel like if AZAN just moved some of the flags on Dry Valley it'd be a good map already. (In other words, take a flag off that dang hill) 

Personally i want to be able to go into season  2 with at least 21 maps (7 per category) so that leaves us with needing 3-4 open and mixed and about 2 closed. I think while that is difficult, it is not impossible if theres a decent break between season 1 and 2.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

The flags on Solace should be reworked.

If those were balanced better it would still be a pretty **** map, but no more **** than a lot of the other maps so I won't argue for its removal entirely.

Yeah but...

Solace is an awesome competitive map.  It bugs me people don't know a good map when they see it, usually due to personal bias because they died on it in a pub and now the map is bad.  Solace is a balanced and non-linear map providing a proper mix of cover and open ground with no position so strong it cannot be countered and MotF properly spaced.  What else can you ask for?  You don't know what you're talking about.

There is really nothing wrong with that flag spawn.  It's a 1 in 3 chance they'll have the flag on that side, plus if they are camping the bridge on the side provides easy access to get an angle on them.  You guys did fine on the map, only dropping the one round when noone paid attention to the time.  Game play is not much different than Ruins is someone is camping till master where the village side gets a jump on 2 outta 3 masters.

I feel like if AZAN just moved some of the flags on Dry Valley it'd be a good map already. (In other words, take a flag off that dang hill) 

Yeah but...

Dry Valley has more problems than just MotF's.  It's linear.  Provides 2 options which are sitting at looking at each other or venturing into open ground.

 

[Kherven]

Dry Valley has more problems than just MotF's.  It's linear.  Provides 2 options which are sitting at looking at each other or venturing into open ground.

..Sorta like an open map?

I'm not arguing Dry Valley is perfect. But I think with some very slight modifications It'd be good enough to be added next season.

It is a horrible mixed map, however, as it is not mixed.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Dry Valley has more problems than just MotF's.  It's linear.  Provides 2 options which are sitting at looking at each other or venturing into open ground.

..Sorta like an open map?

I'm not arguing Dry Valley is perfect. But I think with some very slight modifications It'd be good enough to be added next season.

It is a horrible mixed map, however, as it is not mixed.

If you're referring to Plains (either) then it's not comparable as one team does not have perfect cover while the other is attempting to close the gap.  Think Kherven, think...

 

[Mr.X]

Dry Valley has more problems than just MotF's.  It's linear.  Provides 2 options which are sitting at looking at each other or venturing into open ground.

..Sorta like an open map?

I'm not arguing Dry Valley is perfect. But I think with some very slight modifications It'd be good enough to be added next season.

It is a horrible mixed map, however, as it is not mixed.

If you're referring to Plains (either) then it's not comparable as one team does not have perfect cover while the other is attempting to close the gap.  Think Kherven, think...

What about Field by the River?

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Dry Valley has more problems than just MotF's.  It's linear.  Provides 2 options which are sitting at looking at each other or venturing into open ground.

..Sorta like an open map?

I'm not arguing Dry Valley is perfect. But I think with some very slight modifications It'd be good enough to be added next season.

It is a horrible mixed map, however, as it is not mixed.

If you're referring to Plains (either) then it's not comparable as one team does not have perfect cover while the other is attempting to close the gap.  Think Kherven, think...

What about Field by the River?

Do I have to competitive break down every map?  Not mad (yeah right  ) but how are we not connecting these dots?

Name me a location you cannot properly flank due to the overall size of Field.  Even the ruin is easily out-flanked not to mention the time it takes teams to make it there from either spawn + interference from cav.

Dry Valley is 1/3 the size of field so your opponent sees every move you make with taking no risk to do so.  It has access to upper roof tops and a tower from one spawn and alleys and a raised defensible area on the other.  So if you push you opponent sees you coming, has time to deepen their ranks moving ranged to areas barely reachable, and tee off on you when you round the corner.  There is a difference between applying pressure to a flank by slipping an archer or cav out and around (as you can on Field) and rushing into your opponents defense which is, unless there is a large skill gap, a terrible idea.  The first option there is good, the second not so much.

I think most people need to stop looking at how teams are choosing to play maps and more on the potential a map has to be played.

 

[Kherven]

You say Dry Valley is linear yet it offers the same movement as any other map, solace included. From big village spawn you can take a wide right going all they around the valley, go far left taking tower, go straight using the wall as cover. Right now the small village is slightly overpowered due to the archer roof and flag placement, so with some minor edits (like I said) I think Dry valley will have just as many options as FBTR.

If you're going to say that Dry Valley has only two options, move or not move. Then yes, that's correct. With any map you must choose that.

 

[Mr.X]

I'm just saying that Field by the River has loads of cover. Trees, hiils, a wall, more trees, 2 villages, 3 bridges, water, etc. Wayyyy more cover than say Open Plains. So clearly the amount of cover isn't really being considered a defining factor for Open Maps.

 

[sotamursu123]

On NA map classifications, Field by the River is mixed. Field by the River is the most open map played on EU but it gives options for all classes equally because it's not a flat open field. The main points of interest are a fort, river, stone bridge, two forests, ruins, cover around every flag spawn to avoid total cav domination. Also it's possible to travel the map without moving into the open for long periods. It's barely any more open than Ruins or Frosty Battle.

btw are there any kinds of guidelines on how the maps are classified?

 

[Mr.X]

On NA map classifications, Field by the River is mixed. Field by the River is the most open map played on EU but it gives options for all classes equally because it's not a flat open field. The main points of interest are a fort, river, stone bridge, two forests, ruins, cover around every flag spawn to avoid total cav domination. Also it's possible to travel the map without moving into the open for long periods. It's barely any more open than Ruins or Frosty Battle.

btw are there any kinds of guidelines on how the maps are classified?

Its classified as Open according to this OP.

 

[Mad_Dawg]

Dense

Edit:  Not sure exactly how many matches you guys have called on these maps.  Just speaking from experience here.

 

[Mr.X]

Dense

Edit:  Not sure exactly how many matches you guys have called on these maps.  Just speaking from experience here.

Not exactly sure how many matches you've won on these maps. :/

ALSO one persons opinion doesn't end all conversation. Get over yourself.

 

[Rhade]

****.

Solace.

"Oh, I know, let's make a ****ing map that has a spawn in which master spawns 1/3 times and let's make that spawn a defensible fortress with a ****ing MOAT around it, high-ground over half the map, and amazing cover from rocks and trees. THEN, let's make the other master spawn very approachable from said fortress spawn, leaving that same spawn as having 1/3 MotF spawns LITERALLY under their feet, the other spawn a very, very close run and with range still covering from spawn fortress, and the last flag spawn not very far away at all.

****ing ridiculous. Tournament maps should not be a matter of "let's have one side horribly advantaged, but it's ok because you'll swap." We did this with TMW when we played Haranear, and whatever side had the bad spawn just got smoked.

No, just no.

On NA map classifications, Field by the River is mixed. Field by the River is the most open map played on EU but it gives options for all classes equally because it's not a flat open field. The main points of interest are a fort, river, stone bridge, two forests, ruins, cover around every flag spawn to avoid total cav domination. Also it's possible to travel the map without moving into the open for long periods. It's barely any more open than Ruins or Frosty Battle.

btw are there any kinds of guidelines on how the maps are classified?

This, in my opinion, is a massive problem. How is it that FBTR is the "most open" map you guys play, yet:

to avoid total cav domination. Also it's possible to travel the map without moving into the open for long periods.

Your entire play is focused around closed maps and cover. You're playing Urban Warfare simulator 2013 and you guys only really use cav as heavies to bump. As much hate as we get for using coursers and playing plains, I feel like the EU scene has a disdain for open maps. I don't want to see that disdain here, and I'd like to see more open maps like Haranear attempted with Open Plains being a great example of how Warband has more to offer than just urban warfare and cover and shoot. You guys try to "avoid total cav domination", but range and inf domination is just fine and acceptable?