Why Roleplay Servers Will Never Work

[Erk]

You could place high tiers in the same broad area, the choice being more do I want to hit a rock or a tree, not so much where to go. Broadly speaking.

How does this lock out work?

And if you go the exports route, you can change the price to whatever amount you want. For instance. you can have the wheat be sold at a higher price than gold...

In any case I am most interested in the no crafting version, I have given up trying to mend crafting.

 

[Splintert]

I was talking about my scene that I'm working on as I type this 

Materials can only be sold at 1000% of their default price, so no, wheat cannot be sold higher than gold.

I don't quite see the point in giving up on crafting. It is very important in giving factions not only a money advantage, but an equipment advantage. Since they tax purchased equipment, everything they produce provides a whole ton of net cash:

Material refund for engineer
Crafting reward for engineer
Crafting bonus reward for target stock counts for engineer
Tax when purchased to chest
Tax on stockpiled materials the engineer purchased to use into the chest
Undefined amount X that the equipment generates when being used by faction soldiers

Versus the export system with

Tax for sale of materials into the chest
Tax for purchase of unlimited stock equipment into the chest
Undefined amount X generated from the use of the equipment



Taking out crafting takes out a large chunk of a faction's income.

 

[Erk]

Regarding your point that crafting results in higher income than exports.

Check the stockpiles in any scene a couple of days after reset. For the raw materials that pay well, there can be thousands of items. Imagine all that wealth in the castle chest, which is basically what you can do if you share 100% of tax from export to chest. It is a wealth for factions that you wouldn't believe. Trumps anything you have seen before. Of course, one may adjust that.

So no, exports do not mean less gold for factions at all.

I am not sure that exports are subject to the usual restrictions, but in any case wheat at 1k a piece seems profitable. If you keep other objects at 1k a piece also then you have your desired balance. Maybe not higher than gold, but high enough.

Crafting does enable an strategic advantage: having a well stocked armory is indeed better. But how many factions ever bother to do that? Is it fair that just because I play at a later time I find an empty armory? Also, most gold in chests right now comes from selling items to faction members, which is not any external income. Else, it means you are giving away the precious weapons you somehow and very rarely manage to get a smith to craft. Meh, I don't like crafting. It messes things up and makes scene making a lot harder.
No one has ever succeeded in generating systematic crafting in their scene. I bow to evidence.

 

[Splintert]

Regarding your point that crafting results in higher income than exports.

Check the stockpiles in any scene a couple of days after reset. For the raw materials that pay well, there can be thousands of items. Imagine all that wealth in the castle chest, which is basically what you can do if you share 100% of tax from export to chest. It is a wealth for factions that you wouldn't believe. Trumps anything you have seen before. Of course, one may adjust that.

So no, exports do not mean less gold for factions at all.

I am not sure that exports are subject to the usual restrictions, but in any case wheat at 1k a piece seems profitable. If you keep other objects at 1k a piece also then you have your desired balance. Maybe not higher than gold, but high enough.

Crafting does enable an strategic advantage: having a well stocked armory is indeed better. But how many factions ever bother to do that? Is it fair that just because I play at a later time I find an empty armory? Also, most gold in chests right now comes from selling items to faction members, which is not any external income. Else, it means you are giving away the precious weapons you somehow and very rarely manage to get a smith to craft. Meh, I don't like crafting. It messes things up and makes scene making a lot harder.
No one has ever succeeded in generating systematic crafting in their scene. I bow to evidence.

A large majority of scenes are created with massive starting stockpiles for all weapons and armour, completely negating the point of crafting. When FG ran my scene Across the River, they editted it to raise starting stocks because they were too lazy to craft stuff. I won't claim that the scene had a perfect economic design (in fact I think its absolutely abysmal), but the owner didn't even give it a shot. It is similar on all other servers and scenes I've played on.

Selling weapons and armour to faction members creates money out of nothing. If you combine all faction members net gold, have then buy stuff, the net value of everything the faction owns will rise. This is more the case when engineers begin to restock the lost equipment.

An export/Quick Battle scene takes all of the incentives of a faction and throws them out. No longer is organization needed to successfully play the mod. One can just kill someone, take their money, and buy equipment at the nearest unlimited stock. This already happens on scenes with large starting stocks. Removing crafting merely makes individualized gameplay the forefront rather than faction based gameplay.

 

[Erk]

I have 1k. I buy a spear worth 1k from my faction's castle. I have a spear worth 1k and gold in the chest for a fraction of that. So yes, there has been some wealth created.

Now, in the meantime someone sold 40 iron ores at 500 a piece to my export. That's 20k to my chest. Compare.

My point is that making gold should be a faction thing. I could go solo and say mine, making say 20k per trip, minus the guard's payment and subject to some risk, hopefully much.

Or I could hold a castle and make 20k of every single miner that sells in my castle.

Price things well and people will need to hold castles in order to buy their precious toys.

That is what I suggest, moving from the rare strategic advantage of crafting (which by the way, be honest, how often does it happen?) to the advantage of gold holding. 

Of course, things shouldn't flow that easily, so one should make it hard for caravans to reach castles. People like to rob, but it is not worth it nowadays. Make it easier, giving ambushing spots and escape routes.

And let the fun begin .

PS-BTW, it already is very individualistic, crafting doesn't change a thing. If crafting is well managed, it happens because it is in people's best interest. Hence I can always walk into an armory and buy my toys.

 

[Splintert]

Since your idea has not been tested I will create a Quick Battle version of my scene with your recommendations (PM please), how things work from a technical standpoint such as percentages and placement would be great.

 

[Erk]

On it

 

[Erk]

Serann is the other law abiding citizen that tends to defend some rules. What do you think about no rules for war?

Some people complain that enemies enter they castle, position themselves, declare war an d butcher them.


Is this a bad thing?

 

[Splintert]

To an extent.

The only reason it is an issue is because factions are forced to see other factions as "friendly" until war occurs. If factions actually treated each other like they should, presumed hostile until proven otherwise, such a situation would not occur in the first place.

 

[Erk]

@Erk

So wait... when someone tries to tax you, you talk about rules the whole time, deliberately
acting as if it was the server rules... and when someone else does the same thing, you kill
them for whining?

So basically, you are abusing the system, that you allegedly hate, especially when it is abused?

Ops, just picked this up. I agree, I did abuse "the system" for a bit this one time. I guess out of frustration, for a little while. But stay calm, once I had proved my point, I proceeded to try to rob the knight myself...haha. It didn't end up so well, he just wore me off with sneak attacks from his charger.

I don't think anyone in PW who has played with me would say I abuse the system in any way. But if I wanted to, I could abuse the crap out of the system. Like you wouldn't believe.

PS - I agree with the message below. And that was my point to start with when I wrote the message back then. I wanted to give a real example of how easy it is to abuse the system.

 

[Splintert]

It's not hard. The system was designed to be abused by certain people, so the holes in logic are huge and easily exploitable.

 

[Erk]

I couldn't agree more, Splintert. I would love to see paranoic factions.


"No you can not get in my freaking castle, you sneaky scum!"

"Why are the Squirrels massing in that inn?"

"OMG a group of Eagles of Gondors are coming to the mine! Help help!"

I also  think it is bad that factions are forced to be friendly. Factions should see each other as threatening forces, unless they are allied.

I think it would be way more interesting.

 

[Korbal]

I couldn't agree more, Splintert. I would love to see paranoic factions.


"No you can not get in my freaking castle, you sneaky scum!"

"Why are the Squirrels massing in that inn?"

"OMG a group of Eagles of Gondors are coming to the mine! Help help!"

I also  think it is bad that factions are forced to be friendly. Factions should see each other as threatening forces, unless they are allied.

I think it would be way more interesting.

Yes and yes!
Thats a great idea. Finally knights will stay protecting the castle than do whatever they want. Finally you can start a suprise attack and dont care about fairness.
And now diplomats will actually play a bigger role in pw.

One point i might also add is that i found leaving faction mechanic way to exploitive. You can leave your faction whenever you want which is basically desertion. And nobody gets punished
for doing such. I mean the faction would be way too busy to actually fight the war and using rules could overwhelm the admins. Too much names etc. I hope they could implent the system in which you can only leave the faction if it is at peace.

Another point is that i never liked this neutral villages. Surely villages have a abudance of natural ressources and controlling it would mean a great benefit. So the village would be forced to ally with a faction to protect themselves. Maybe even flee to the castle for protection-like in real life.

Last point is that for me they are way too many factions. Many factions are basically 4-5 or even less. I always hoped for larger faction and with that larger battles.

 

[Erk]

Great points Korbal.

I am picturing a map with 3 actual factions and commoners and outlaws.

Furthermore, being in a faction should a money earning scheme. Nowadays joining a faction is a luxury, you join to spend your hard earned gold in some relatively thoughtless war.  Factions have no other purpose than war. Non at all.

For me, factions should represent power, land ownership and wealth. All of them related. Holding a castle should be owning the chicken of the golden eggs. Being rich would mean being able to purchase cool gear and pay for mercenaries and guards. Or as a lord, being able to pay for the loyalty of your men. Right now, no ones gives a damn about the lord. It is not that the lord can do anything for you, it is basically a favor to join a faction and fight his wars.

What can change this is map design. And some rule changes, that is, removing war rules.

Is people taking positions inside your castle and declaring war? Well why did you let the gang of armed men from a rival kingdom get in!

 

[Korbal]

Great points Korbal.

I am picturing a map with 3 actual factions and commoners and outlaws.

Furthermore, being in a faction should a money earning scheme. Nowadays joining a faction is a luxury, you join to spend your hard earned gold in some relatively thoughtless war.  Factions have no other purpose than war. Non at all.

For me, factions should represent power, land ownership and wealth. All of them related. Holding a castle should be owning the chicken of the golden eggs. Being rich would mean being able to purchase cool gear and pay for mercenaries and guards. Or as a lord, being able to pay for the loyalty of your men. Right now, no ones gives a damn about the lord. It is not that the lord can do anything for you, it is basically a favor to join a faction and fight his wars.

What can change this is map design. And some rule changes, that is, removing war rules.

Is people taking positions inside your castle and declaring war? Well why did you let the gang of armed men from a rival kingdom get in!

I might add that many lords are some random dudes. Basically vote me lord" i pay you back guys. And returning to fewer factions thats why people would have to vote in actual leaders.