Why Alayen makes the best trader (Companion Build Guide)

[Vampiresbane]

You might be thinking Alayen a trader? WHA?  He's a LORD!
Hear me out.  It has everything to do with stats and levels.  Most of the time if you play with a party setup for a decent time to "beat" the game in some fashion you and/or your companions will most likely hit level 30 or higher.  Personally I tend to get all my companions to 10 str first for wearing almost all of the best armor and weapons and then max out whatever skill I want them to focus in. 

My party makeup tends to go something like this:
Trader (Focus on CHA)
Engineer/Tactician + Training (Focus on INT)
Doctor (First Aid, Wounds, Surgery) (Focus on INT)
Tracker (Tracking, Pathfinding, Spotting) (Focus on INT)
Looter (Focus on AGI)
Remaining Companions are Warriors, maxing out Ironflesh/PowerStrike to 10 & then pushing Training to each Companion's max.

But Alayen doesn't start with ANY Trade skill you say?  You're right, but at level 2, his Charisma is 8 which is pretty good.  It's all about the long term plan.  Let's take someone with the highest vanilla starting trade, Katrin, Jeremus, Ymira or Marnid.  Let's make a comparison starting stats, mid stats (we'll pick... level 18...out of a hat), and then final stats/lvl when they're maxed.  I'll pick Katrin so the comparison is more obvious, but know that it'll either be because of stats or levels, that Alayen will hit max trading faster than all 4. 

(For full disclosure, I also make sure all my companions ride horses so 1 riding for each as well. In this case it doesn't matter since Alayen and Katrin have 3 & 2 in riding already.)

As you can see, Alayen hits max trade at level 24 while Katrin hits max trade at level 30 (Katrin would be maxed in trading two levels earlier if I hadn't added +2 Str).  Even at level 18, Alayen is outpacing Katrin in trade if comparing level to level, 8 to 6.  In fact, Alayen equals Katrin in trade at level 7 with 3 trade while Katrin starts at level 8 with 3 trade.  I realize that Katrin would start out higher and have a level headstart over Alayen but once you get into the high teens or low 20's, leveling is much slower and getting max skills at lower levels really makes a difference. 

I'll check my notes here for the other party major roles for who else fits the best. 

Best Companions for Particular Roles long term?:

Trader - Alayen

Doctor - Jeremus (though Marnid/Borcha are decent alternatives; all 3 would reach max FA,W,S at level 23, but Jeremus starts with points in those already so you can build him up further in other skills.)

Tracker - Borcha (Deshavi would max at lvl 24, but has 6 tracking points already; Marnid would max at lvl 23, but has no starting tracking skill)

Looter - Klethi (Firentis is also a decent pick stat wise, but he frowns on raiding towns and caravans so in his case, looting would only apply well to general fights; Alayen also would be a good looter, but he's the best trader.)

Engineer/Tactician - Marnid (For comparison, since most players would reason Artimenner would be the best pick, Marnid can hit max Engineering/Tactician at level 23 while Arty wouldn't do so until level 26.  Depending on party layout, Nizar and Ymira are good 2nd choices as they'd hit max E/T at level 24.)

TLR -
Trader - Alayen
Doctor - Jeremus
Tracker - Borcha
Looter - Klethi
Engineer/Tactician - Marnid

Alternatively if you want to have someone else as a trader, the best warrior?  Alayen 
He'll max out Strength by level 21 and then you can max Agility for better Athletics/Shields.  But that's if you focus him solely on Strength. 

Most flexible companion for intelligence based skills? Marnid
With his starting level of 1 and 11 intelligence, he easily could be the main docter, tracker, or engineer depending on your party needs. 
(Ymira isn't bad either with level of 1 & 11 intelligence, but her starting strength is so low it's harder for her to survive, kill, and earn experience which slows down her growth.)

 

[NeverUseCavalry]

Good guide.

 

[Seven of Spades]

Good reasons to turn Alayen into what he hates the most? Priceless!!

I tip off my hat to you my good lord Vampiresbane.

 

[✪Chewy]

Nicee

 

[blainedeyoung]

I think it's better to take Trade yourself.  It seems like a terrible waste of a companion to put all those points into Cha when there's only one skill he can use there.  And while Trade is a nice skill to have, it isn't critical- like several other skills are. 

You've only assigned Training to one companion.  You know Training stacks, right?  At the end of this last game, I had 6 companions with 10 Trainer (Bunduk couldn't get his Int up to 30 because he has all those points of Cha, and Klethi is my Looter so I stopped her Int at 12.  She had a 4.  Bunduk had 8 or 9 at the end). 

I used to make 3 or 4 companions into fighters, focusing on Str and Ag.  They become really impressive, but I was underwhelmed by their performances.  They're still just one man.  I decided it would be much better to use them as Trainers.  That way, they're not just one man.  They're factories that churn out top-tier troops.  So I stop all my companions at 12 Str and 12 Ag (except the Looter), and then put every point into Int.  The "fighters" focus on Trainer first.  Then develop other skills as back-ups for the skill monkeys. 

At the end of this last game, Jeremus had 10's in Wound Treatment, Surgery, and First Aid.  And so did Firentis.  Alayen had 10's in Wound Treatment and Surgery.  Ymira had a 10 in First Aid and 8 in Wound Treatment.  Deshavi had 10's in Pathfinding and Spotting, and so did Baheshtur.  Ymira had a 10 in Tracking.  And they all had 10 in Training.  They all had 12 Str and 12 Ag and were damn good fighters. 

I had a 7 Trading which means I effectively had a 9 with the +2 main character bonus.  It would have gone up to 11 in another level or two.  And I was confident I was getting more out of my companions that way. 

 

[Occam]

They all had 12 Str and 12 Ag and were damn good fighters. 

I usually put in more than 12str/12agi for my fighters but I see your point and I think you are right.
High weapon proficiency and top tier armor are much more important for fighters than an extra point or 2 of power strike.
The back-up on party skills can't hurt and the extra training definitely helps.

 

[annallia]

I have to agree on the training as well.

Trading is nice and all, but honestly by the time I level up enough or level a companion enough to get any real benefit in it I am already rolling in coin from my enterprises, fiefs, and of course loot and prisoners. If I could start out with trading at 10 it would be useful, but by the end I don't see the point in knocking a few thousand off that piece of armor when it is a mere drop in the bucket compared to what I will bring in.

Training on the other hand is something I do almost constantly, I am always, always recruiting new troops and training them upa bit to stuff away in one holding or another for later use either in defense or a quick stop to top off my party after a lengthy campaign has dwindled my numbers somewhat. Being able to train up a 100 top tier troops in a matter of days is far more useful to me than the odd saving on something I purchased.

 

[Vampiresbane]

You've only assigned Training to one companion.  You know Training stacks, right?  At the end of this last game, I had 6 companions with 10 Trainer (Bunduk couldn't get his Int up to 30 because he has all those points of Cha, and Klethi is my Looter so I stopped her Int at 12.  She had a 4.  Bunduk had 8 or 9 at the end). 

My party makeup tends to go something like this:
-snip-
Remaining Companions are Warriors, maxing out Ironflesh/PowerStrike to 10 & then pushing Training to each Companion's max.

I'm well aware training stacks.  But I don't max it like you do.  It's more a flavor/personal preference than anything.  And I would encourage you to try a maxed out fighter with 30 str/12 agi with top weapons and armor.  That companion + some nord Huscals can rip through a siege defense or at least punch through that bottleneck so you then can get on the inside and start taking out troops with bow/crossbow from behind.  4 or 5 companions with 30str/12 agi?  Runaway freight trains. 

Personally maxing out trading on the player character seems like a waste to me, but that's after I played one that did have max Cha and max trade/leadership and then one that maxed out Str first, then INT second.  Why? 

Well again, it's somewhat personal preference, but I keep having fun as long as I feel my character is still growing.  Part of the mechanics of this game require a player to gain experience in order to "grow" or gain levels.  What's the largest source of experience? Killing opponents in sieges.  Who's better suited to that, a trader or a warrior?  A warrior. 

That's not to say you can't max out STR and CHA instead, it's just in my opinion making sure your character is the biggest toughest brute tends to allow you first max out his combat skills and then build in other areas easier and faster due to game mechanics. 

This isn't really a guide on how to build the player character but I go something like this:
1.  Max to 30 str, 10 ironskin, 10 power strike, 10 power draw (although you don't have to max power draw to benefit from 90% of bows).
2.  Max to 30 int, 10 pathfinding, 10 first aid (Effect: Heroes regain 5% per level of hit-points lost during a particular battle. This is added to a base rate of 10%.  so that way, I can get up to 60% of my previous hit points, extremely valuable in multi stage offensive sieges).
3.  Add as many points to Training whenever possible.  Occasionally put points in shield, athletics, trade, and/or leadership as needed. 

I might try to max out engineering as well.  Haven't decided.  In Kingdom building, the things that seem THE most important are being able to fight and defeat garrisons or sieging forces AND being able to build siege towers as quickly as possible; the longer a siege tower takes to build the more likely the opposing realm will be able to bring a defensive force to scare your forces off.  My current character is level 45, has 30 str, 30 int, but gaining levels is pretty slow so I like exporting him to new worlds to conquer; keeps the gameplay fresh and fun. 

I imagine you like CHA maxed in order to max leadership as well for the larger parties.  With my build, I tend to gain renown much faster than my trader build and renown also helps increase party size.  I think either can be fun, but like I mentioned before, "growing" my character is really important to whether or not I have fun so making sure he was the biggest, baddest brute around was my first priority. 

 

[fragonard]

Maxed Engineering is amazing. I used to make do with 8 or 9 from a companion but after a few back and forths with Bakters on his speed run thread I have become a believer. Instant ladders and few hours for a tower make a huge difference; totally can change your tactics.

 

[NeverUseCavalry]

The game has some issues in this regard.  The main reason int is the power gamer stat of choice (well, there are a few reasons, but this is the reason that the alternative warrior build is so inferior) is that it's so easy to dominate a fight as the player even with bad str/agi.  I mean, a couched lance kills whether your str is 9 or 30.  An awlpike with some speed behind is the same.  A great long axe (or poleaxe or whatever your favorite tool of the trade) kills in 1 or 2 hits in a siege defense whether you have 9 or 30 str as well.  So if you can kill just as well (or at least very close to as well) with minimal physical stats, it's a no brainer to take advantage of the benefits of intelligence.  The fact that the player is the only one that can give himself a bonus to party stats is obviously another big factor, but I think there would at least be a tempting trade off if higher levels of str/agi actually translated to significantly better killing power.

 

[Occam]

You just gave me a great idea for the mod I've been working on.
I never liked that you could be a plate-wearing mounted archer using pretty much any weapon you want...there are just no trade-offs required.

I'm going to move power draw to agility and double the PD requirement for bows.
Also I'll raise the str requirement for top tier armor to 20+
If you want to be an archer, it''ll be hard to have the best armor too.
If you want to wear plate, you'll have to depend on your companions for party skills...

I think I'm gonna like it.

 

[NeverUseCavalry]

You just gave me a great idea for the mod I've been working on.
I never liked that you could be a plate-wearing mounted archer using pretty much any weapon you want...there are just no trade-offs required.

I'm going to move power draw to agility and double the PD requirement for bows.
Also I'll raise the str requirement for top tier armor to 20+
If you want to be an archer, it''ll be hard to have the best armor too.
If you want to wear plate, you'll have to depend on your companions for party skills...

I think I'm gonna like it.

Those are some really good ideas.

 

[JosieJ]

I'm well aware training stacks.  But I don't max it like you do.  It's more a flavor/personal preference than anything. 

One could say the same thing about Trade!  It really depends on how you play your game.  Frankly, I've never seen the need for high Trade.  You get a lot of good stuff through drops, especially if you have one of your companions level Looting.  If you focus on laying the groundwork for a good economy early, as I do, you have more than enough money to buy the really uber stuff when it comes up later in the game.  I'd rather be able to raise top-tier armies quickly, and having Training--at least a few points--on all my companions really helps with that.  Plus, I tend to take some CHA and Leadership myself to avoid having to constantly fight and keep up my renown to have a constant party size.

But that's just the way I play my game. 

 

[Vampiresbane]

You just gave me a great idea for the mod I've been working on.
I never liked that you could be a plate-wearing mounted archer using pretty much any weapon you want...there are just no trade-offs required.

I'm going to move power draw to agility and double the PD requirement for bows.
Also I'll raise the str requirement for top tier armor to 20+
If you want to be an archer, it''ll be hard to have the best armor too.
If you want to wear plate, you'll have to depend on your companions for party skills...

I think I'm gonna like it.

It always did make me scratch my head that the top str requirement for vanilla was 11 str for the winged helm.  11 str?  That's nothing. 

As for the agi req for bows?  It may seem odd for me to argue against it, but take the longbow for example, that takes incredible shoulder strength to draw; it's not really a matter of agility. 

 

[NeverUseCavalry]

You just gave me a great idea for the mod I've been working on.
I never liked that you could be a plate-wearing mounted archer using pretty much any weapon you want...there are just no trade-offs required.

I'm going to move power draw to agility and double the PD requirement for bows.
Also I'll raise the str requirement for top tier armor to 20+
If you want to be an archer, it''ll be hard to have the best armor too.
If you want to wear plate, you'll have to depend on your companions for party skills...

I think I'm gonna like it.

It always did make me scratch my head that the top str requirement for vanilla was 11 str for the winged helm.  11 str?  That's nothing. 

As for the agi req for bows?  It may seem odd for me to argue against it, but take the longbow for example, that takes incredible shoulder strength to draw; it's not really a matter of agility.

Yes, but this is one instance where game balance has to trump reality.  Do you realize the list of things I could generate that are completely unrealistic in the game but are necessary for the game to work?  Let's just start with taking a great axe to the face and not only surviving, not only staying conscious, but actually continuing to fight with no degradation in your fighting ability!  It's utterly absurd, but the game wouldn't be very fun if 90% of strikes took you out of the fight at the very least, which would be realistic.  Having bows as an agility weapon is standard in these sorts of games, and there's a good reason for that.  It's for game balance.  His solutions are very good in my opinion.  The best armors should require 20+ str for sure, and putting bows into agility prevents you from just having some lame rule like you can't use a bow with anything better than leather armor.