Only war going for the Sturgia is vs Northern Empire. They have one city left (Argonen). The Prince musters a full army with all the influence and then sets about "patrolling" near Balgard. I used my personal command to burn the n.empires two towns and set about stifling their recruiting efforts by capturing as many nobles as I could catch. There are about 1000 troops total running about for the N.Empire (including the town). Why wont this guy finish the war? I would gather them all together but don't have the influence and since he forms the army, marches around, army disbands, he calls them all back quite shortly after and does it again. I'm very confused as to why this is happening. Anyone know? He keeps forming a force about 2000 troops, leaves about 400 for me to call (which I did) and still it just "patrols". Come on man...
-
If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
Why AI Prince (Sturgia) won't finish an opponent?
- Thread starter KithKanan
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
This is what happens when an otherwise great game puts little to no focus into developing campaign mechanics.
My guess is that the "war strategy" as you can select as kingdom leader is set to defensive. It's useful as a player when you want to keep empires going because you've virtually beaten the game but want to keep factions alive to be able to fight. AI can likely use and set this as well. Just a guess.
That makes some sense. Just wild to see it blow through its influence when there is only a single war target left/possible. I'm just hoarding influence for the future in an attempt to ensure I'll finish the N.Empire off next time. After forming and eating through (Ragnavand) cohesion 3 times the nobles of Sturgia decided to start another war. Then few days later sued for peace with the N. Empire due to "too many enemies". lul
Hah, yeah, defensive to a fault. It's worth hoarding your influence for an army - and if they only have one fief left you won't need all that much in the grand scheme of things. I noticed in my current campaign with only 3 other factions left aside from my own, 2 factions having 1 fief each, my AI armies are only either taking fiefs from the faction with multiple fiefs or quickly taking fiefs back when the single-fief factions manage to snag one. All strats are set to defensive to keep the campaign going.
But tbf I haven't been kingdom leader long enough to try the other modes "balanced" or "aggressive" so it could be a genuine issue with the way AI is programmed.
SanyaBeli
Recruit
It seems that when they added faction death, they made it so AI lords won’t actually finish off a faction. In my game, the AI won’t finish off the Southern Empire that has been on a single fief for a while. AI factions go to war with them but just never actually siege Poros. Has anyone seen the AI take a faction’s last fief in the new update?
Not with how the garrison/NPC spawn mechanics work. That final town is always some 1k+ fief, not an easy task to take over and the NPC don't know (and can't) factor that in with whatever basic 'attack or flee' calculations are in place; so it's never a targetable objective.
Only the player, because only the player can summon how many parties needed to overcome it or 'game' it to beat those odds; or play the 'siege game'. Auto-sim is still heavily in favour of defenders (for good reason).
NPCs, absent the player, probably need at least a 2.5K army and I've yet to see armies get that large on their own; even if that is the only kingdom at war with too.
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
Am I the only one who thinks its odd how the ruler of Sturgia is called "Grand Prince"
Anyway, on topic, it's possible they're following the "Defensive" war strategy and programmed to avoid finishing off a faction. I have an on-going playthrough paused around 1102 and the Northern Empire, as usual, is reduced to 2 fiefs but nobody's wiping them out. Granted, their neighbors are busy tearing each other apart, but I have noticed an odd aversion on the part of the A.I. in declaring war on particularly weak targets. Like, for example, the little Calradia I'm building around Charas wasn't declared war upon in the near-decade it has existed (even after I started picking fights) and I suspect it's possible part of the war calculation disfavors targeting weak countries. Alternatively, it's possible having positive reputation actually prevents the monarch from war with neighbors (I was well-behaved and got my Charm up, after all) and that's best seen when you have a small country.
The easiest way to find out would be to open up the game's files and see what formulae is uses for war declarations and whether there's a variable in place to protect tiny countries as well, but I can't do that on PS4 to help with that.
when his vassals are all called "Knyaz," which is the Slavic term for a king? I'd greatly prefer it if the ruler was called "Great King" instead, although I understand this weirdness is to follow the historical ignorance and confusion of Westerners with regards to Slavic titles and, in particular, what the heck a Velikii Knyaz is and whether that should be equated to a "king," "duke," "emperor," or what. Seeing how a "knyaz" is a king, at least that's how I translate it, I think the Velikii Knyaz should be called "Great King" in Bannerlord rather than Fresh Prince of Chertyg as is presently the case. Perhaps especially since "Prince," if we're going to keep Calradia based in historical Europe, is a Latin-derived title and thus not as appropriate as one with a closer etymology, although I'm not a fan of this logic since it becomes increasingly confused as you go further from Insert Language Here as a "center."
I guess if I were to continue ranting about trivia, I'd likewise object to the use of non-Your Game's Language titles for nobles and monarchs but this is largely for stylistic and 'immersion' reasons rather than ones I can articulate without, at some point, coming off as ignorant and inconsistent lol.
I guess if I were to continue ranting about trivia, I'd likewise object to the use of non-Your Game's Language titles for nobles and monarchs but this is largely for stylistic and 'immersion' reasons rather than ones I can articulate without, at some point, coming off as ignorant and inconsistent lol.
Anyway, on topic, it's possible they're following the "Defensive" war strategy and programmed to avoid finishing off a faction. I have an on-going playthrough paused around 1102 and the Northern Empire, as usual, is reduced to 2 fiefs but nobody's wiping them out. Granted, their neighbors are busy tearing each other apart, but I have noticed an odd aversion on the part of the A.I. in declaring war on particularly weak targets. Like, for example, the little Calradia I'm building around Charas wasn't declared war upon in the near-decade it has existed (even after I started picking fights) and I suspect it's possible part of the war calculation disfavors targeting weak countries. Alternatively, it's possible having positive reputation actually prevents the monarch from war with neighbors (I was well-behaved and got my Charm up, after all) and that's best seen when you have a small country.
The easiest way to find out would be to open up the game's files and see what formulae is uses for war declarations and whether there's a variable in place to protect tiny countries as well, but I can't do that on PS4 to help with that.
Zorion_no
Sergeant
This is an asumption on your part - Ive seen several kingdomes fall in my plays.
By year 10-15 (even as early as year 5) Battania falls - and are crushed.
Southern Empire have also a tendency to fall early. Seen them wiped out 2 times.
Asarai actually fell in one play, this was the first and only time I've seen them be wiped out by the ai ever in any game(I've wiped them out on my own though in a worldconquest run).
Northern Empire tends to be hold out with 1 town or 2 left for some time, but I've seen them be wiped out by enemy factions aswell.
What I find annoying with the kingdome destruction that in my plays there is few if any of the clans from a failed kingdome that actually join a new kingdome.
Read if you want them to "survive" you need to recruit them before the fall "clans not in a kingdome have no kingdome to defect from and thus cant be recruited" (this is a ****ty mechanics, and should add in an option to let us recruit those aswell).
Zorion_no
Sergeant
To your rant, its abit "semantics" perhaps.
But alot of cultures for instance Norway back in time had many "kings" who ruled their own small part, however they all had to pay their taxes to the "high king" or the King of Norway.
The others would be king of a "region", like here where I lived you'd be King of Alfheim.
I'm guessing that given that the Swedish Norsemen/Vikings had their cultural impact on the Kievean/Rus which Sturgia is based of, that the culture there also had their simialr "kings" but one big king.
In the case of Raganavad, I'm also asuming its abit of "lore/fluff" for the game, as he isnt "fully accepted" by all the clans to put it that way.
Kuloving hate him(Olek) cause of Raganavad killing of one of their kin Varra.
Vagirioving (which I'm thinking is the one that merges with Khuzait over time and fore Vaegir) led by Godun is "in it for himself".
And if the sucession is like the Norse, it isnt hereditary, meaning Raganvad holds the biggest claim to it, but isnt yet "coronated" accepted, and thus cant call himself "king" but still use his title from when his father was slain in battle.
Most likely if he'd try to claim to be "king" he'd face a rebellion.
But alot of cultures for instance Norway back in time had many "kings" who ruled their own small part, however they all had to pay their taxes to the "high king" or the King of Norway.
The others would be king of a "region", like here where I lived you'd be King of Alfheim.
I'm guessing that given that the Swedish Norsemen/Vikings had their cultural impact on the Kievean/Rus which Sturgia is based of, that the culture there also had their simialr "kings" but one big king.
In the case of Raganavad, I'm also asuming its abit of "lore/fluff" for the game, as he isnt "fully accepted" by all the clans to put it that way.
Kuloving hate him(Olek) cause of Raganavad killing of one of their kin Varra.
Vagirioving (which I'm thinking is the one that merges with Khuzait over time and fore Vaegir) led by Godun is "in it for himself".
And if the sucession is like the Norse, it isnt hereditary, meaning Raganvad holds the biggest claim to it, but isnt yet "coronated" accepted, and thus cant call himself "king" but still use his title from when his father was slain in battle.
Most likely if he'd try to claim to be "king" he'd face a rebellion.
Zorion_no
Sergeant
As others point out it may be that its "defense" for some reason that he's set up.
You can do a few things to speed up the destruction of the NE.
The city you refer to have if I recall only 2 villages attached to it - raid both of them.
This will lead to starvation in the city.
Use your 400 troops to lay siege to the town, typically if they have 1000 troops inside it 400-500 of them will be Milita - read its not that likely they will charge out, and if they do, even with 400 troops its should be doable to deal with if you are smart about the tactics (shieldwall, or square, have archers rain fire from inside the square or behind the shieldwall) (cavalary is dismounted).
Should they not charge you, be sure to have say food for 20-30 days(just grain if need be), then just siege the city to starvation, and all those defenders in the garrison will perish, leaveing only the miltia, which should be relative easy to take out.
Typically when you go to siege, and have set things up, boom there you'll see the king come along aswell.(takeing over the siege).
You can also break up the kings army, you'll use influence to do so, which isnt all that pricey and take hits to your relation with all lords in the army (which if its 2k typically mean alot of them is in the same clan so the relation can actually become hostile(- x(as in negative)
I dont know if you have your clanmembers be part of your army? because typically if they have some Stewards each would easily have 100-150 troops and you can have 3 clan parties + your own.
SanyaBeli
Recruit
It definitely seems that the new AI is less inclined to declare war on the player's kingdom when it is small than in previous versions. It used to be that as soon as you declare a kingdom everyone wants a piece of you. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I wonder if it has to do with keeping garrisons large so there aren't any soft targets.
In regards to monarch titles, the only odd thing I think is that they didn't pick a lane. Knyaz and Knyaginya are used as the noble titles with no translation from the historical slavic titles. Grand Prince gets translated. Either it should be Prince and Grand Prince or Knyaz and Velikiy Knyaz. Why the mixture?
In regards to the translation, Knyaz is pretty much always translated as prince in regards to the periods prior to the Empire when the Knyazya were essentially sovereign rulers of independent city states. In later periods it is often translated as duke when it becomes a title for a high ranking noble that is subject to the emperor. Knyaz is essentially never translated as king. Of course, this may have to do with the desire by European rulers to translate tsar as king rather than emperor in order to create a peership between the tsar and western kings. Translating knyaz as king would have made veliki knyaz and tsar titles higher than king. And European kings didn't want to imply that.
Of course, it should be noted that the modern meaning of prince as a son of a king is not really the original meaning. The Prince of Wales, for instance, was originally the sovereign ruler of Wales. When England took over, the title continued as a title that was subject to the king of England and only later was it made the custom that the heir to the throne of England should be made the Prince of Wales. Another example would be Machiavelli's "The Prince" which clearly refers to a sovereign ruler and not the son of a king.
In regards to the translation, Knyaz is pretty much always translated as prince in regards to the periods prior to the Empire when the Knyazya were essentially sovereign rulers of independent city states. In later periods it is often translated as duke when it becomes a title for a high ranking noble that is subject to the emperor. Knyaz is essentially never translated as king. Of course, this may have to do with the desire by European rulers to translate tsar as king rather than emperor in order to create a peership between the tsar and western kings. Translating knyaz as king would have made veliki knyaz and tsar titles higher than king. And European kings didn't want to imply that.
Of course, it should be noted that the modern meaning of prince as a son of a king is not really the original meaning. The Prince of Wales, for instance, was originally the sovereign ruler of Wales. When England took over, the title continued as a title that was subject to the king of England and only later was it made the custom that the heir to the throne of England should be made the Prince of Wales. Another example would be Machiavelli's "The Prince" which clearly refers to a sovereign ruler and not the son of a king.
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
Yes, I understand all this about the real history of how there many kings of their own realms and, while they paid taxes to a "great" king, or "high" king, etc., they were still effectively independent. In the context of Sturgia, I believe it's a weird stylistic choice to call the velikii knyaz "Prince" since, while I understand your argument that his in-universe title might be "humble" for the sake of avoiding offending his "peers," I don't think it would inappropriate to render it as "Great King." Heck, I already do in my head so I forgot the Prince this thread was referring to might be Ragnavad because I got used to translating (what I assume is Velikii Knyaz) his title as "Great King." I didn't know there was a "Vagirioving," but I do know you have some typos, so are you sure the name is similar to "Vaegir" in Warband? If so, you might have identified the ancestor of the Vaegir Kingdom in Warband. 
Given the game mechanics, it seems like monarchies are much less centralized/autocratic in-universe because they all play like a "noble democracy" and any clan/house could become the royal one should the previous monarch die and their clan's/house's new head/heir not be respected as successor to the royal title.
I would be amused if my player clan was ever voted out of rulership, despite my best efforts to make it autocratic and centralized, lol. Would be a good reason to start a revolt/civil war for "New Game Plus."
Given the game mechanics, it seems like monarchies are much less centralized/autocratic in-universe because they all play like a "noble democracy" and any clan/house could become the royal one should the previous monarch die and their clan's/house's new head/heir not be respected as successor to the royal title.
I would be amused if my player clan was ever voted out of rulership, despite my best efforts to make it autocratic and centralized, lol. Would be a good reason to start a revolt/civil war for "New Game Plus."
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
I have wondered if it was my garrisons, because I was never ganged-up on in my previous long-term/unification playthrough but I had went independent in Askar, Iyakis, and some nearby castles rather than somewhere more central like Charas, Sargot, Usanc Castle, and Thractae Castle. Granted, that's not quite "center" but I'm afraid to have HUGE Vlandia as my neighbor and the Southern Empire ain't quite so "southern" no more lol. It might as well just be called "Calradia" given the other 2 are nearly destroyed and my little country isn't even called (cardinal direction) Empire.
I am lucky the Vlandian King who is no longer dey Arromanc thinks I'm a cool guy that doesn't deserve a beating. Same for the old lady ruling Eastern Calradia.I like how me inserting my tangent into a spoiler tag is being maintained like a "secret conversation" lol. I do remember picking up the habit from a forum that used spoiler boxes to prevent rants or tangents from filling up too much space...
Stylistically, probably because the developers realized most players have no idea what a "knyaz" even is so calling the ruler "Velikii Knyaz" would be about as intuitive as me calling every title by what they are in German, Chinese, and Latin based on my current mood lol. Not that I even know these languages, although that doesn't take away from (what I perceive to be) the silliness of using untranslated titles/terms and mixing them with translated text. It'd be like if I called the Son of Heaven "tenno" or "huangdi" rather than "emperor."
As for linguistics, I believe the Westerners wanted to view the Slavic rulers are a step beneath them hence the Dukes and Princes rathe than Kings and Great Kings. Pragmatically, and "soft linguistically" (as in, I am ignorant but I can identify patterns), they are Kings and Great Kings, or lords and overlords with great local autonomy. "Tsar" is clearly Caesar, or "Emperor," so in ranking titles the Great King is essentially a step between a normal king and a "ruler of the Roman world" emperor. Or, more modernly, an "emperor," but I want to respect the lofty implications of somebody being called the ruler of the known world lol and my pattern-recognizing brain dislikes the clear break of it as well.
I believe Prince derives from some Latin title mean "First," right? As in, the "First Citizen?" I understand it doesn't necessarily, especially in Bannelord, mean "son of the royal" but it still looks like a demotion from "knyaz" which I take to mean "king" due to the historical basis for the Slavic title.
As for linguistics, I believe the Westerners wanted to view the Slavic rulers are a step beneath them hence the Dukes and Princes rathe than Kings and Great Kings. Pragmatically, and "soft linguistically" (as in, I am ignorant but I can identify patterns), they are Kings and Great Kings, or lords and overlords with great local autonomy. "Tsar" is clearly Caesar, or "Emperor," so in ranking titles the Great King is essentially a step between a normal king and a "ruler of the Roman world" emperor. Or, more modernly, an "emperor," but I want to respect the lofty implications of somebody being called the ruler of the known world lol and my pattern-recognizing brain dislikes the clear break of it as well.
I believe Prince derives from some Latin title mean "First," right? As in, the "First Citizen?" I understand it doesn't necessarily, especially in Bannelord, mean "son of the royal" but it still looks like a demotion from "knyaz" which I take to mean "king" due to the historical basis for the Slavic title.
I pretty much followed this to a T before reading your post. I've found raiding the villages (which is what I should have called the two "towns" in my original post) does exactly this with the food (bit of a history buff so this self-lead me down that road). Easily took out the final city myself when they decided to declare on Sturgia themselves. Yes, both my brother and his wife are very capable of seperate parties, each sit about 120-145, coupled with my 190 we did well. Not too much influence for lil extra assist from friendly lords.
Was pretty funny watching the 20-25 lords with their 20-40 man units just running back and forth village-city-village then back again over and over all fighting for recruits. Some went to other areas but didn't stray too far. Looks like 2-3 families defected to the western empires, and the rest were destroyed after a time. I've since used raids and starvation to great effect on dealing with a much stronger Vlandia, who now pay us. The Southern Empire is the biggest threat militarily in the world so its time to wreak havoc on them next go I have.
After reading further down and seeing how AI is reacting to making your own kingdoms I'm now really considering taking it down that road as I have 2 cities and 1 castles now, all basically next to each other. Dead center of map. Just sad the two cities are only 2 village each tho.
Thanks everyone for the great convo's here.
Yoshioki Ouchi
Sergeant
You might want to hold off if we're talking Lageta, Rhotae, and other stuff in the DEAD center because I'm a little concerned you might end up dead for real lol. You may want to leave an "anchor save" prior to declaring independence for safety. Note that your Influence as a Sturgian WILL NOT carry over when founding a new country, so you'll have to grind it up so you can enact favorable laws before throwing a few hundred grand (per head) around to win over some (most likely homeless) clans. Northern Empire expats would have been wise, but there may be others where you're at.After reading further down and seeing how AI is reacting to making your own kingdoms I'm now really considering taking it down that road as I have 2 cities and 1 castles now, all basically next to each other. Dead center of map. Just sad the two cities are only 2 village each tho.
Thanks everyone for the great convo's here.
On the other hand, if you're referring to somewhere around Epicrotea, you might be able to make it work but I highly recommend saving a few million gold first so you can buy peace as-needed without worrying about bankruptcy. Starting a new country is neither cheap, nor easy, so my approach on both occasions was to do so in as solid a position as I could (especially the second time around). Try getting Sturgia into some wars prior to declaring independence; it'll tie them down and make them amenable to making peace with you post-independence as well.
Zorion_no
Sergeant
On the "declare your own kingdome".
As stated you loose all your influence, but your family is free to call into an army.
The lords in the faction you defect from will be -40 from what you have today(also includeing merc factions)(so if you have 100 relation with all lords, when you leave you'll have 60).(if you have 0 they will be -40 and be listed as enemies).
Some cities have structures/buildings that give some influence.
As king I dont recall the exact number on the spot, but belive its +5 influence pr day.
Ideally you should also have maxed out your charm and the 275 will give you +5 influence.
Being in an army with your clan will also give some influence aswell.
I wouldnt overall call it "grind it up" influence and or its not that vital imo when you make a new kingdome, as typically you are the only clan in it for a short time (if you plan on recruiting more clans into your faction).
You can also propose new laws for the kingdome to boost influence, like the "Divine" something, wher you are semi-divine or say you are and get +3 influence pr day.
I think Bailiff will also give +1 influence if the town have 60 security.
Also be sure to have relative strong defenses in your holdings if they have some travel distance, as its typical that they will besiege multiple of your fiefs at once, and its not easy to be in more than 1 place.
The other suggestion about saveing prior is "a must".
As you can easily regret the decision if you arent really prepared for the rollercoaster ride you may be in for.
