SP - General When are you going to fix persuasion?

[iimstevo]

This has to be the worst mechanic that's ever existed, ever, in any video game ever made.
The persuasion "chance" has absolutely nothing to do with the values shown. The associated attributes, also have absolutely no bearing on the success/failure of the selection.
The "12%" or "5%" critical chance failure can be triggered 100% of the time with "save-scumming", proving that this is a complete failure of a system.
You can go through the interactions for persuasion by doing Option 1, Option 1, Option 1; Option 1, Option 1, Option 2; Option 1, Option 1, Option 3; etc...

You get EXACTLY the same results, time after time.
The only thing that changes the results? Waiting in a settlement to progress the in-game time to generate new RNG numbers.

So persuasion isn't about your charm skill, or personality traits, or theirs, or your "luck"... it's purely about the roll you received before you even began the conversation.

Please for the love of Bannerlord, fix this terrible system.

 

[Selphie Nutter]

This has to be the worst mechanic that's ever existed, ever, in any video game ever made.
The persuasion "chance" has absolutely nothing to do with the values shown. The associated attributes, also have absolutely no bearing on the success/failure of the selection.
The "12%" or "5%" critical chance failure can be triggered 100% of the time with "save-scumming", proving that this is a complete failure of a system.
You can go through the interactions for persuasion by doing Option 1, Option 1, Option 1; Option 1, Option 1, Option 2; Option 1, Option 1, Option 3; etc...

You get EXACTLY the same results, time after time.
The only thing that changes the results? Waiting in a settlement to progress the in-game time to generate new RNG numbers.

So persuasion isn't about your charm skill, or personality traits, or theirs, or your "luck"... it's purely about the roll you received before you even began the conversation.

Please for the love of Bannerlord, fix this terrible system.

I've never experienced this before, the roles for me always chage if i save before i start the conversion then keep reloading until i succeed. I cant speak for later stages though since i always marry in the early stages and i dont often try to recruit other clans unil ive claimed their territory. (To prove i can protect them from their lieges wrath).

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

I've never experienced this before, the roles for me always chage if i save before i start the conversion then keep reloading until i succeed. I cant speak for later stages though since i always marry in the early stages and i dont often try to recruit other clans unil ive claimed their territory. (To prove i can protect them from their lieges wrath).

I've experienced this while trying to save scum marriage. I had guessed it's some kind of seed because waiting a second (or, according to some folks on another thread talking about this, doing literally anything even without in-game time passing) seemed to change the possible outcomes.

You probably don't notice it if you play without save-scumming but, if you're like me and believe true love deserves more dice rolls, you'll likely notice something's up with it after a while.

 

[Selphie Nutter]

I've experienced this while trying to save scum marriage. I had guessed it's some kind of seed because waiting a second (or, according to some folks on another thread talking about this, doing literally anything even without in-game time passing) seemed to change the possible outcomes.

You probably don't notice it if you play without save-scumming but, if you're like me and believe true love deserves more dice rolls, you'll likely notice something's up with it after a while.

I play on Console so i dont have the options to mod the game like the PC has, whats Save-scumming?

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

I play on Console so i dont have the options to mod the game like the PC has, whats Save-scumming?

Reload when it doesn't work out.

 

[Selphie Nutter]

Reload when it doesn't work out.

Oh lol, that works fine for me, the only time it doesn't is when persudinh lords to join my kingdom. Then i have to first take their holdings and capture them before they are willing to be persuaded. Or at the very least i have to take all their lieges holdings

 

[saittam]

So persuasion isn't about your charm skill, or personality traits, or theirs, or your "luck"... it's purely about the roll you received before you even began the conversation.

Charm skill does matter. Atleast for marriages. Done it way to many times to know i need to grind up charm to 75-100 before even trying on the lady.
But traits don´t really work. Does not matter what trait the lady has one just need to aim on the highest % Even if it´s against her traits.

 

[iimstevo]

Charm skill does matter. Atleast for marriages. Done it way to many times to know i need to grind up charm to 75-100 before even trying on the lady.
But traits don´t really work. Does not matter what trait the lady has one just need to aim on the highest % Even if it´s against her traits.

You're talking about the base value being affected before the conversation takes place.
That may well be the case... but that doesn't detract from the system that has absolutely no bearing on what choices you're making during the conversation.
The highlighting of Honor/Generosity etc... in either red or green is completely null. The percentages associated with the responses, are equally null.
When you have a 5% critical failure chance at step three, and critically fail 37 times in a row with save-scumming and repeating the exact same interaction sequence - that is not a 5% chance. That's like falling out of an aeroplane without having a parachute and having a winning lottery ticket break your fall and leaving you completely unscathed save for a paper cut.

 

[SudianX]

You get EXACTLY the same results, time after time.
The only thing that changes the results? Waiting in a settlement to progress the in-game time to generate new RNG numbers.

So persuasion isn't about your charm skill, or personality traits, or theirs, or your "luck"... it's purely about the roll you received before you even began the conversation.

This is my experience as well. I was able to save-scum convince a bunch of lords into joining my kingdom by resetting the seeds with the passage of time It still strikes me as "luck" and "RNG" even if it is all rolled before the conversation, and the roll itself can be saved in a saved game.

I never try to convince ladies for the marriage anymore... I just go straight to paying the clan leader

As for convincing lords to join? I am going with a no-traitors policy this playthrough. Only elevated companion clans . This should be do-able with the whole kingdom/clan deletion now.

 

[drivegol]

You're talking about the base value being affected before the conversation takes place.
That may well be the case... but that doesn't detract from the system that has absolutely no bearing on what choices you're making during the conversation.
The highlighting of Honor/Generosity etc... in either red or green is completely null. The percentages associated with the responses, are equally null.
When you have a 5% critical failure chance at step three, and critically fail 37 times in a row with save-scumming and repeating the exact same interaction sequence - that is not a 5% chance. That's like falling out of an aeroplane without having a parachute and having a winning lottery ticket break your fall and leaving you completely unscathed save for a paper cut.

I imagine the idea behind that is that there was a 5% chance for that option to be determined as a failure, prior to initiating the conversation. As someone else said, if you let some time pass for about a second, the conversation results change again, so they are probably rerolled every second using those odds. If you were to, instead of saving and reloading without letting time pass, save and reload and let some time pass before initiating the conversation, you'll find that those odds are more accurate.

The system works, and I think the anti-savescum mechanic is clever, I think you're mostly just annoyed that you spent so much time savescumming just to be met with the same conversation results thinking there would be a different result each time. The only change they could make here in line with what you asked is to make savescumming persuasion checks a bit more convenient, and honestly I'd rather they put a priority on other mechanics.

 

[SudianX]

With the latest patch savescumming nets me different results now (for choosing the same options after multiple loads). This is... a change... anyways. I consider it neither an improvement nor a step backwards

I suggest a bigger change to get rid of my desire to save-scum for this entirely. I do not think it should be a one-shot chance. That is silly. Let me try to convince the same clan leader again later, after a month (or year?) in-game time. I personally do not like save-scumming, and this current mechanic just screams for that.

Spoiler: Off topic

I gave up on my no-traitors playthrough. I will attempt it again in the future I'm sure, but I was also trying several other things at the same time, most of which turned out to not be very fun (leveling tactics, anyone?).

Nah, really the main problem with that playthrough was that I was peacefully purchasing every city/castle instead of besieging them. It was... too slow to earn the $$$ for that. It is very doable, but being a pacifist expansionist was tediously boring to me. Maybe if I used a mod to make towns have more than 100k at a time in their markets... Or maybe if I tried to make super valuable swords and throw those into the trade window? I never did get favorable results trying to trade valuable items with other lords... What, you don't want this shiny sword for your daughter?

Also: I just like starting over a lot (in all the games I play, not just Mount and Blade).

Also Also: I am a bit impatient. I have yet to play a character long enough to die of old age. I have only seen grown children in one playthrough so far, and that guy took over the whole map... before factions could get eliminated

 

[drivegol]

With the latest patch savescumming nets me different results now (for choosing the same options after multiple loads). This is... a change... anyways. I consider it neither an improvement nor a step backwards

I suggest a bigger change to get rid of my desire to save-scum for this entirely. I do not think it should be a one-shot chance. That is silly. Let me try to convince the same clan leader again later, after a month (or year?) in-game time. I personally do not like save-scumming, and this current mechanic just screams for that.

Spoiler: Off topic

I gave up on my no-traitors playthrough. I will attempt it again in the future I'm sure, but I was also trying several other things at the same time, most of which turned out to not be very fun (leveling tactics, anyone?).

Nah, really the main problem with that playthrough was that I was peacefully purchasing every city/castle instead of besieging them. It was... too slow to earn the $$$ for that. It is very doable, but being a pacifist expansionist was tediously boring to me. Maybe if I used a mod to make towns have more than 100k at a time in their markets... Or maybe if I tried to make super valuable swords and throw those into the trade window? I never did get favorable results trying to trade valuable items with other lords... What, you don't want this shiny sword for your daughter?

Also: I just like starting over a lot (in all the games I play, not just Mount and Blade).

Also Also: I am a bit impatient. I have yet to play a character long enough to die of old age. I have only seen grown children in one playthrough so far, and that guy took over the whole map... before factions could get eliminated

You can already do that. There's no need to savescum.

 

[SudianX]

You can already do that. There's no need to savescum.

Are you sure?

How long did you wait between attempts? Which clan was it? Were you the ruler, in the same kingdom as the first failure? I want more details!

I have always gotten the reply, "you have already tried to convince me" every time I have attempted the same lord more than once. This is both lords with and without the "critical fail" occurring during the first attempt, both while being a vassal and while being the king myself (different playthroughs), both fiefed and unfiefed (I was only ever able to convince a fiefed lord to join me while my character was the king, and I only attempted that during war so they would bring the fief with them ).

Not once have I been allowed to even try to convince any clan leader a second time. I thought, maybe if the leader dies and the clan has a new leader... but I am not patient enough for that. I have yet to play long enough to have my first character die

 

[drivegol]

Are you sure?

How long did you wait between attempts? Which clan was it? Were you the ruler, in the same kingdom as the first failure? I want more details!

I have always gotten the reply, "you have already tried to convince me" every time I have attempted the same lord more than once. This is both lords with and without the "critical fail" occurring during the first attempt, both while being a vassal and while being the king myself (different playthroughs), both fiefed and unfiefed (I was only ever able to convince a fiefed lord to join me while my character was the king, and I only attempted that during war so they would bring the fief with them ).

Not once have I been allowed to even try to convince any clan leader a second time. I thought, maybe if the leader dies and the clan has a new leader... but I am not patient enough for that. I have yet to play long enough to have my first character die

In my case what happened was that I tried to convince a lord to marry my female character, but failed the second conversation (you need 2 or 3 succesful conversations iirc, been a while). After talking to them again a few days later I still got the same "sorry, but I don't think this is going to work" line, and instead of going for another lord I just kinda forgot about it for a few ingame seasons, maybe a year. I tried again after that and was surprised to see I could initiate another romance attempt.

However, I never really tested this too much because yes, it does seem to take a long time before you can try again, so I just reload a save when I fail a persuasion attempt and try again or leave it for now. I never tested if this applies for convincing lords to join your kingdom, but I don't see why not as it's the same mechanic just with different conditions.

I don't know if they've since changed it since I tested this somewhere in november 2022, but if they haven't yet then frankly I would agree they should just reset persuasion attempts every ingame 20 days.

Also regarding your character dying, unless you die in battle your character is not going to die of old age in the average playthrough. The only time my main character ever died of old age was about 10 ingame years after I conquered the entire map and just started messing around with fief management and trying to recreate enemy kingdoms by giving fiefs to companions, since I had killed off every clan that wasn't my own.