What about a roadmap ?

[Kehlian]

Hello guys,

This time, instead of posting that in big threads and get this lost, I decided to make a thread about it, and see how it goes.

I know we won't get any kind of release date anytime soon. And it's ok you guys take your time, as seen in a pole in this very forum, most of us understand that.
The devblogs were good at start, because it meant you guys would communicate more with us. But I find them... lackluster, to say the least. They don't contain very much useful informations, but this is only my opinion.
They are even starting to stagnate, as for the last on date, we don't even have all the informations about a faction's lore... information that will be given to us in 3 blogs (means 3 weeks only for a bit of information on ONE faction).

Every time a new game comes out, I wonder if I should buy it to play to wait for BL, because "hey, BL might just come out soon", and I can't really afford to buy too many games at once.

But could you at least share a roadmap, tell us once every month (for instance) where you are in the development, and what's left to do ? It wouldn't even be more work for you, since I believe that is something any company does weekly.

 

[Horik6697]

I agree with you and share the idea of a development roadmap. I think that the DevBlogs don't give us information about development progress anymore, and now they're just filling a gap with some random trivia about the developers (not technical stuff about the progress tho) and somewhat cool faction's lore. 

 

[Airbar]

I would love a roadmap, or at least some information what's currently been worked on, what they consider 100% done and stuff.

Though I must say that more engagement with the community would be appreciated. The mod Q&A was a step in the right direction, but there were still so many "can't say right now", "not yet set in stone" etc that it was kinda frustrating to read. Also at one point (don't know the date, but some years ago) they said they would release the source or at least parts of it after release so modders can tweak even more stuff than Warband, now they announced that there will still be hardcoded stuff, the whole "module system" seems way more restricted than the Warband one.

It's all a bit frustrating to me.

 

[Do not look here]

Was the poll specifically designed with one, clearly favourable answer in the middle to achieve phallic shape?

 

[Kehlian]

Was the poll specifically designed with one, clearly favourable answer in the middle to achieve phallic shape?

lol I should have put a 4th one and side-flip everyone reading it ?

No it wasn't intended, but now that you say it, I can see it :p

I thought nuances between the first and second was important, to know if people really feel that the devblogs are useless, or if they are still useful. To let TW know if they've gone in the right direction. And they clearly have .

 

[Duh]

While this topic is a step in the right direction, I think it requires a bit more thought.

What are the benefits of a road map to the community?
What are the benefits to Taleworlds (aside from possibly some happy people)?
How can TW deal with the risk of some people interpreting even the vaguest progress report as "imminent release"?

What kind of road map are we looking for and what may be a realistic compromise given the rather tight-lipped approach TW has pursued in regards to the development process?
If a monthly report is unrealistic - what are the alternatives that are likely to achieve most of the aforementioned benefits? (Maximizing cost/benefit)

It wouldn't even be more work for you, since I believe that is something any company does weekly.

Don't assume too much Heck, maybe the best thing that comes of this initiative is a proper internal roadmap formulation that helps development overall.

 

[Kehlian]

It wouldn't even be more work for you, since I believe that is something any company does weekly.

Don't assume too much Heck, maybe the best thing that comes of this initiative is a proper internal roadmap formulation that helps development overall.

Well it would still be a good thing (IF they need it ^^)

To answer your questions, I'll try to be as thorough as I can:

What are the benefits of a road map to the community?
First of all, I really think posting a roadmap will answer the question most of us ask: "where are you now, and what's taking so long", it's really the only question that matters to most of us. It would clearly calm down people on forums for at least a while every month (if monthly basis is decided, ofc), and render the forums, especially the steam one, a bit less toxic.

What are the benefits to Taleworlds (aside from possibly some happy people)?
For TW, it would mean better organisation, if they don't have any roadmap yet, it would help them set objectives, not necessarly date, but goals to achieve, and piece by piece, it will improve the workflow (again, considering they don't use that system, which I hope they do). It will also mean better visibility, since happy people would share that stuff and discuss it in a better manner than just toxicly stating "game will never come out".
It would also mean allowing people to discuss features, and give their thought on it, having some feedbacks and hopes from the players.

How can TW deal with the risk of some people interpreting even the vaguest progress report as "imminent release"?
Well this one is a bit tricky, the community already does that. Every bit of information they release so far is so rare and tiny that people dessicate it for weeks, making assumptions and deforming everything. That's how it works and I don't think there is any changing that, besides beeing clear every time, and instead of saying "can't answer this", actually answering it (but I really believe they can't). Having more of it, and knowing how they do will help the community understand TW better. Once we know how they work, there is less and less assumptions made.
Wording is really important, and using soonTM clearly won't help with that. Stating there is no clear date for anyting each time would also help.
Having the road map in hands, the community will understand what TW is doing, how they are doing it, and it means less presure on them from the community. I may be over-optimistic, but I really believe we can be understanding.

 

[redwitch]

hmmm... If they require a suggestion from the community to set up a roadmap for the development of the game then we are really in trouble 

 

[cifre]

hmmm... If they require a suggestion from the community to set up a roadmap for the development of the game then we are really in trouble 

You'd be surprised...

LE: generally speaking; not targeted to Taleworlds specifically. I work in a huge company and these terms like Vision/Strategy/Objectives(with road maps and all that ****) is just a new thingy for us (only used until now to board VPs level). So smaller companies should not have it necessarily.

 

[Varrak]

I don't think there is a need to decide between blogs and roadmap. And we don't really have to know roadmap neither. The problem probably is that TW doesn't have (and want) to have a roadmap.

If they decide to make one roadmap but doesnt want to share with community; it's okay for me. But saying that "we will release when we know that game will please everyone" is utopia There is no such thing as pleasing everyone. There will always be people that criticise some rock, some tree, some cloud in the sky etc. Perfection is illusion and shouldn't be adopted as a target of any company.

There should be choice in poll like "there should be a roadmap (doesnt matter if they want to share or not) but blogs are nice as well".

 

[Nordmann]

They must have an internal road-map, as no developer is going to operate without at least something in place to guide development. Well... no one sane.

 

[Sundeki]

They must have an internal road-map, as no developer is going to operate without at least something in place to guide development. Well... no one sane.

You would think that would be the case. I am not so sure. The dev team seems to have ignored other fundamental development rules and strategies and the game development thus far is literally approaching a decade without a single word on how far away it is, even a vague word.

If they had a roadmap it got stolen by sea raiders a long time ago.

 

[NPC99]

TW have to work within certain fixed constraints. They want the maximum audience possible. That means they want their game to work in some form on low spec PCs. They also want to cram in all the great features that will motivate most customers to buy their game for the longest possible time as PCs continue to upgrade. These two objectives conflict. Difficult compromises need to be made to balance them. That means some road mapped items will get ditched to lighten the load. I doubt TW or any developer wants to open that up to us, given the immature nature of a lot of our responses and our conflicting preferences. Game balance is delicate. It can’t be done by committees or referendums.

I don’t want a roadmap. I’m happy with blogs. Warband and the released videos are sufficient evidence to have faith in Armagan’s judgement.

 

[lolbash]

thread is dead already?

Well the general consensus on the thread is that the idea of a roadmap is bad, and lots of reasons you can read up explain why. If you have any points supporting the idea, feel free to chime in and spark some discussion.

 

[Kehlian]

thread is dead already?

Well the general consensus on the thread is that the idea of a roadmap is bad, and lots of reasons you can read up explain why. If you have any points supporting the idea, feel free to chime in and spark some discussion.

wait, have we been reading the same thread ? Everyone is saying this is good. Some people doubt, though, that TW actually has one

EDIT: nvm I really should learn to handle sarcasm better