[v 1.1.0 BETA] Hero FoW was a bad idea

[Archelaos]

I think the concept of characters being hidden, while interesting in theory, is terrible in reality in a game with so many of them. Especially as you do not have any way to meet them as a group - you have to literally chase them on the map.
I am pretty sure the one who designed this haven't counted how many real and in game time would it take to just meet half of the lords.
This create massive problems as even if you join faction (so you can meet lords in settlements) it would take a long time to meet them all. But you will not meet other lords, unless you fight them.
Sometimes lords offer you marriage. How am I supposed to decide if I can't see potential spouse stats? Or stats of their clan?
How am I supposed to find spouses for my characters and potential clans to recruit?
This may, in theory, work for wanderers, but for lords FoW makes the games massively worse.

I hope this will be reverted completely or at least make it a toggle in options that make it possible to play with full info on characters. The game is already grindy like a free to play online game, there is no reason to make it even more grindy.

 

[JunKeteer]

If this is the only iteration and 'work'/QoL being put into the FoW, yes - just remove it.
Fine having it also as a toggle (like birth/death mechanics).
But I also do want FoW, but it needs QoL/sensible adjustments to it (ie spouse/relative's info on proposal, companion 'search' via taverns, kings should always be 'known', clan leaders in associated allied kingdom, etc...). Rest should be discoverable; new clans via rebellions, new kids/births, new companions, marriage updates, etc...
For companions, gameplay-wise, it's almost useless even without FoW knowing the one you want is across the map - you still have to travel there and hope they don't teleport somewhere else in the meantime (meaning you have to stop every few towns to 'push the update' where they are). Just have a good chunk of them always...teleport to within a region/town or two (or even villages) of the player. Maybe have them as bystanders in town (not just taverns) to give some tiny, additional purpose to go through town scenes (as long as you get a civ horse in towns now) if you wish to.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Having a Fog of War feature wasn't a bad idea, releasing a FoW feature with the problems you've listed and it not being optional is bad though. I hope the devs tweak the feature to make it much easier to gather information, and add new ways to gain knowledge about npcs such as by attending feasts. They should also enable us to ask the current location of lords in the same clan as them and the locations of other clan leaders. We should definitely gain all the information about the potential spouse & the clan leader whose offering the marriage when we get an offer. When a tavern keeper tells us about a companion, we should automatically learn about them. We should always see someone's traits regardless of meeting them since traits are both someone's personality and the rumours about their personality. There are probably much more that can be added, but I do like that the player is no longer omniscient, it's just that the current implementation is lacking.

 

[Archelaos]

Another example just how bad the implementation of this feature is: When you encounter an army, you have to click through dialogue of ALL lords one by one to "meet" them. 10 minutes or so wasted on useless clicking. An that just give you some of the lords of one faction.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Another example just how bad the implementation of this feature is: When you encounter an army, you have to click through dialogue of ALL lords one by one to "meet" them. 10 minutes or so wasted on useless clicking. An that just give you some of the lords of one faction.

Lmao did not know that, now that is really bad implementation. I only played briefly after 1.1 released, do you at least "meet" with lords/mercenaries when you summon them to your army for the first time (if you can summon unknown people to your army in the first place)?

 

[JunKeteer]

Another example just how bad the implementation of this feature is: When you encounter an army, you have to click through dialogue of ALL lords one by one to "meet" them. 10 minutes or so wasted on useless clicking. An that just give you some of the lords of one faction.

Yeah, that seems poorly thought out, one would assume your character would meet/be introduced to the other leaders when you join said army. Encountering one just on travels, yes, would assume you would have to meet each one-by-one (if they entertain your audience); isn't that the same as if you want to talk to them from the walls if an army visits a castle/town?

If I call to form an army, would make sense the ones I 'know' (and good relation) will be less influence cost to call, and the ones I haven't met yet, having to require a bit more influence cost to call into army (and even relation/trait factored in too).

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The only way they can make FoW work is if they drastically reduce the pacing of the game and make most NPCs reliably spend the entire game in one place. The King of vlaneraitania is on his throne 95% of the time doing local stuff. Then when he's on campaign you visit his palace and someone asks if you would like to leave a message, please hang up and try again etc.

On the contrary a lord is just as likely to be basically anywhere on the map at a given time.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

What I don't get is this: The Encyclopedia still tells you the last location of each NPC even if you never met them. Sure you can't see the age, appearance or skills and what not, but who cares? The 1 and ONLY martial information is where they are so you can find and defeat them (or get married lol). Even at war it still tells you where they were. SO, like so many other features, it just FOW in name, but actually adds nothing to the game.

TBF I also don't fully understand the complaint (I see it often though) as you can still find everyone because the FOW doesn't hide last location.

 

[Zorion_no]

My issue with it is that I dont recall what traits each of the npc's have.
And well its smart to get the same traits as you are going for, so if you are cruel, you shouldnt get merciful, and opposite.

So travelling to location x and finding them and they where the wrong type (looking it up online, kind of dont feel right, and tax me of time which is something I dont want to waste like this).

Then you have the issue or is it a bug on my end, that they die like flies.
So sometimes they die/vanish before you even reach them. (and when they die, it suddenly show the traits etc, and it was the type you want - savescum is an option).

Should be as others suggest a toggle option for those who like it, but let us who dislike it, not need to be annoyed with it.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

There should be perks revolving around this sh*t.

I don't even care for the feature half as much as everyone does, but feasts would be a good help here.

 

[saittam]

For me it was a game killer. Stopped playing the beta and went back to 1.03. The spouse hunt will take half the game.
Just hoping for a mod to remove it.
The only worse implement i can think of is if the player had to start playing from age 1. Just sit and wait 18 years before one can do anything.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

For me it was a game killer. Stopped playing the beta and went back to 1.03. The spouse hunt will take half the game.

Is it because you want to see their skills and gear? It tells you where everyone is so finding them doesn't take nay longer. But if you don't know how you want, then yeah that's a problem.

 

[TheViviansen]

I didn't test the patch yet, but i'm thinking about the narrative side of the game. Part of the story telling is strictly tied with the in-game wiki, it's a tool to check lineages and rebuild the story of a family/clan, not only skill/perks. Then it's your own immagination that creates narrative around it. In your opinion this change has an impact narrative wise ?

 

[saittam]

Is it because you want to see their skills and gear? It tells you where everyone is so finding them doesn't take nay longer. But if you don't know how you want, then yeah that's a problem.

It´s their age mainly. Skills are not so important. But i prefer those with less skill so i can level and control who they will be more. A lady at 18 with just riding as a skill offer more levelling.
Thats why i only use missing daughters as companions also.
Gear i never think about.
But traits is worth looking at. Someone with a daring trait might just charge the enemy just because the first wave run. Can be challenging after when one don´t control the defensive position.
The player can run around looking for his or her spouse. But for family members. It will take half the game time just looking for good matches. By the time one has found the lady in question will the offer still stand? There is always a chance that someone else marry her during the search. Nobles leading party for battle are easy to find. But those inactive that just teleport from one town to the next. Nah a game is meant to be fun.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

The player can run around looking for his or her spouse. But for family members. It will take half the game time just looking for good matches. By the time one has found the lady in question will the offer still stand? There is always a chance that someone else marry her during the search. Nobles leading party for battle are easy to find. But those inactive that just teleport from one town to the next. Nah a game is meant to be fun.

WHat I'm saying though is that the game still tells you where all these NPCs are, so this hasn't changed at all. It's dum the teleport though.

 

[saittam]

WHat I'm saying though is that the game still tells you where all these NPCs are, so this hasn't changed at all. It's dum the teleport though.

True but it makes it very time consuming.

 

[saittam]

WHat I'm saying though is that the game still tells you where all these NPCs are, so this hasn't changed at all. It's dum the teleport though.

So just trying out the new beta again. Got a offer for marriage. Marked the location of the lady to go and check her out. Was attacked on the way there. That made the offer go away. This makes it even worse. That means given an offer one must abandon all plans. Chase the girl down and avoid being attacked.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yeah that's annoying and weird to not show thier basic info when it still tells you their location anyways, like they didn't understand the point of a fow in a war game. Also I think the AI still magically knows information like what fiefs have recruits and food available and such, which should also be removed if they want a Fow, or in general since the AI should have to waste time like the player does.

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

So just trying out the new beta again. Got a offer for marriage. Marked the location of the lady to go and check her out. Was attacked on the way there. That made the offer go away. This makes it even worse. That means given an offer one must abandon all plans. Chase the girl down and avoid being attacked.

It's not a great solution, but my plan is to just save scum marriage offers so I don't have to waste time with it lol. Otherwise, it's never a good idea to accept marriage offers because you'll never know if the woman offered to your male relatives is actually even capable of pregnancy or is the offering clan head's grandmother lol. And I'm not going to visit every single keep across Calradia just so that I know, as a Vlandian nobleman, if the Khuzait woman from the Kherjit Clan is the head's age-appropriate daughter or their recently single mother (a very odd "feature" if ever there was one, since I doubt most guys would marry off their own mothers IRL and I'm highly skeptical most historical patriarchs would either lol).

 

[saittam]

It's not a great solution, but my plan is to just save scum marriage offers so I don't have to waste time with it lol. Otherwise, it's never a good idea to accept marriage offers because you'll never know if the woman offered to your male relatives is actually even capable of pregnancy or is the offering clan head's grandmother lol. And I'm not going to visit every single keep across Calradia just so that I know, as a Vlandian nobleman, if the Khuzait woman from the Kherjit Clan is the head's age-appropriate daughter or their recently single mother (a very odd "feature" if ever there was one, since I doubt most guys would marry off their own mothers IRL and I'm highly skeptical most historical patriarchs would either lol).

Something else to add to the weirdness is that if you marry a widow with kids, the kids stay in the other clan. I do find it more realistic that people married of their mother for political gain. But who in the world would split a mother from her kids! Thats just crazy.