Unit groups are too generic

[fedeita]

I don't know if l seen it right but there are only four base groups plus custom ones for units: infantry, archers, cavalry and horse archers.
I know this isn't a total war game but we need more of them:
Skirmishers / archers / shock infantry / spearmen / pikemen / shock cavalry / archer cavalry

Using this scheme would also simplifies the work for the ai, suggesting it how to use various kind of unit and against the enemies.

 

[emiuz97]

Probably we will be able to create our own custom groups like in warband.

 

[KucukEniste]

Probably we will be able to create our own custom groups like in warband.

This.
But you may be right about ai .

 

[Captain Obvious]

True but at the same time I personally like to keep my things simple. The addition to create new unit groups would be great for players who desire such.

 

[JuanNieve]

At the moment that option seems disabled, but I hope they do. Also, they can add more designs for custom troops, like someone carrying a lance or axe.

I hope that also in the commander mode they will allow us to designate the lord and the troops he will lead. In this way we could put a lord with a high level of leadership to lead a low-quality infantry group so they can resist a little more Or maybe reserve our best cavalry to a lord to enter the fight at the right time.

 

[fedeita]

My suggestion have nothing to do with custom groups for the player, l'm not against it but the problem is the core just way before possible custom stuff.
l'm just analyzing and trying to help the devs and I'm sure this would be helpful.

 

[Ettenrocal]

Good idea, i totally agree with this, the AI have only basic choices with so few different troops and the battles could look "simples" because of that.

 

[FBohler]

we need more of them

Do we?

Too many options and too much information may be a problem rather than solution.

 

[Ettenrocal]

Maybe you think computers processors nowadays can't handle this kind of Algorithm because of a "too much information" that's just few parameters more. But when you see what have been done after at least seven years, we can have some doubts maybe ? Also i hope we don't have seen all possibilities given to AI armies.

 

[Noudelle]

Maybe you think computers processors nowadays can't handle this kind of Algorithm because of a "too much information" that's just few parameters more. But when you see what have be done after at least seven years, we can have some doubts maybe ? Also i hope we don't have seen all possibilities given to AI armies.

I think he means too much information for the player which might end up being confusing. And I think I agree. I don't want to have to manage 7 different troop types in Bannerlord. I'd rather they keep things as they were in Warband in that regard.

 

[primethief147]

Basically this Bannerlord is also advertising to new players so it's probably better to keep it simple, but maybe have a tutorial for how to have custom troop options just in the encyclopedia menu and maybe have it pop up on screen after you've recruited over 40 or so troops.

 

[Ettenrocal]

He said his suggestion have nothing to do with custom groups, but with AI taking in account 7 different kind of troops.

 

[FBohler]

Maybe you think computers processors nowadays can't handle this kind of Algorithm because of a "too much information" that's just few parameters more. But when you see what have been done after at least seven years, we can have some doubts maybe ? Also i hope we don't have seen all possibilities given to AI armies.

Who told you that the AI doesn't make distinction between different kinds of infantry for example?
Did you get to see what's under the hood?

 

[Ettenrocal]

"The formation AI has access to the same interface and set of commands as the player. In other words, our combat AI doesn’t cheat! It uses every piece of information that a player would have access to (although, perhaps slightly more detailed and accurate than a player’s guesstimates) to make its decisions."

Dev Blog 25/10/18 COMBAT AI

 

[Noudelle]

He said his suggestion have nothing to do with custom groups, but with AI taking in account 7 different kind of troops.

My bad.
I can't ****ing read.

 

[Zmyrf]

Maybe you think computers processors nowadays can't handle this kind of Algorithm because of a "too much information" that's just few parameters more. But when you see what have been done after at least seven years, we can have some doubts maybe ? Also i hope we don't have seen all possibilities given to AI armies.

Who told you that the AI doesn't make distinction between different kinds of infantry for example?
Did you get to see what's under the hood?

I don't know much about programming but I'd assume it would be harder to make an AI that has to figure all this out from one pool by itself, rather than helping it by having preset groups like polearms and shielders that also have some pro/cons as a guide.

I mean from the general stupidity the units show sometimes, like the rock throwing while waiting to get killed, could point towards the opposite. It looks better than warband surely, but it still seems more geared towards brute brawls. The units need a level of self preservation to add more life to battles also, haven't seen that 3rd personal layer from the 3 level AI yet.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The AI definitely needs to treat horse archers differently from melee cavalry, and if there are pikemen they can't be mixed in with other infantry otherwise what's the point. Warband could already quite easily differentiate these groups in code, and there have been a few AI mods which make use of this. Since there is only one unit of each type per army, all bannerlord needs is a simple set of decisions which might only need to be a few lines long. Something like:

Get number of enemy skirmishers
If enemy has 50% more skirmishers, send infantry to attack
If not, send skirmishers to keep shooting until all ammunition is expended.
If enemy infantry attacks, send own infantry to stop them and send cavalry 300m to the left of enemy, then charge
If enemy cavalry attacks, send own cavalry and retreat skirmishers.

Stuff like this is relatively easy to code and you could have a believable but predictable AI system for larger battles, even with all the extra troop types.

 

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

Horse Archers and Cavalry are already two different unit types. The horse archers were pretty good in that 2017 captain mode gameplay if I remember correctly.

 

[Ettenrocal]

Yes horse archers are good in the gamescom trailer (even siege looks better in the trailer), i think he was taking that as an exemple. For what i see there is infantry, calvary, archers, horse archers by default but horse archers seem to have a better AI than in Warband.

 

[monoolho]

I am all in favour of having at most 5 generic groups - inf, spears, archers, hevy horsy, archy horsy - and being able to custom create other groups like in previous games. I for one can't handle too many groups at once, my hands get all tangled up trying to find the right numbers, so i end up only using 3 big groups, but I know that's bad, and I accept it. But I cannot conceive an overly complex system where each single tier of unit is its own grouping in battle being fun.