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Just as I have said previously, Debaltseve gets burned to the ground, all the infrastructure is destroyed including railway node so there is no point in holding that position anymore, UAF retreat, terrorists advance.
Casualties during this retreat operation are of the same order of magnitude than on any other day of "cease fire". That is a success in this situation.
 
Weaver said:
Let's see, some garbage sources, some twisting legit information, some lying and drawing fallacious conclusions.
Let's see, some burden of proof, some appeal to hypocrisy, some fallacy of virtue and overall a bad rebuttal.

1/10 there was an attempt.
 
The fact that they managed to escape encirclement at all with most of their men is a better outcome than what could have been.

With how long they were waiting to shorten the line, I wouldn't have been surprised if they had been completely encircled. Hell, some Pro Rus sources said that they had already encircled them.

Still, it is a loss. It is however a good time to mark the beginning of a lasting peace.
The vibes I'm getting are not so indicative of that, though.
 
Comrade Temuzu said:
Weaver said:
Let's see, some garbage sources, some twisting legit information, some lying and drawing fallacious conclusions.
Let's see, some burden of proof, some appeal to hypocrisy, some fallacy of virtue and overall a bad rebuttal.

1/10 there was an attempt.
Wait, you're making a ****post and burden of proof is on me? Are you retarded?

It was a trick question. Of course you are.
But I'll humour you just this once.
First source - some obscure twitter account with a DNR flag for an avatar. The author, some nutjob in Toronto, is reporting the terrorists capturing two battalions worth of tanks, buttload of artillery and APCs and 500 tons of ammo.
And that's after claiming for months that UAF in Debaltsevo have long ago ran out ammo, food and whatnot because they're completely encircled and forsaken. Making fools out of themselves again.
Bull****-meter exploding.
No proof provided either, of course. But what did I expect?
Next source - some gruesome images from a battlefield. Which proves there was battle. Useless.
Next - a video of a platoon surrendering. Of course it's thrown in to draw a fallacious conclusion that all Ukrainian soldiers refuse to fight. Basic propaganda move. Denied.
Next - a dude falling from a tank while being recorded by a host of journalists. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean.
Next - an article which is actually not full of **** despite being on a Russian resource. But all these talks only show that Debaltsevo was not fully encircled if almost 2k people managed to pull out in one day.
The last article concentrates on basic human incompetence but it's nothing new. Unlike Russian army, UAF has almost no combat experience.

All in all, your posts are mostly just collages of gruesome images and baseless reports from biased nobodies. Rare legit articles thrown in the mix are taken out of context and cherry-picked. Of course, I realize you did not compile that yourself. Still blame is on you for being such a tool and passing this mash on us.
 
Weaver said:
Wait, you're making a ****post and burden of proof is on me? Are you retarded?

It was a trick question. Of course you are.
But I'll humour you just this once.
First source - some obscure twitter account with a DNR flag for an avatar. The author, some nutjob in Toronto, is reporting the terrorists capturing two battalions worth of tanks, buttload of artillery and APCs and 500 tons of ammo.
And that's after claiming for months that UAF in Debaltsevo have long ago ran out ammo, food and whatnot because they're completely encircled and forsaken. Making fools out of themselves again.
Bull****-meter exploding.
No proof provided either, of course. But what did I expect?
Next source - some gruesome images from a battlefield. Which proves there was battle. Useless.
Next - a video of a platoon surrendering. Of course it's thrown in to draw a fallacious conclusion that all Ukrainian soldiers refuse to fight. Basic propaganda move. Denied.
Next - a dude falling from a tank while being recorded by a host of journalists. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean.
Next - an article which is actually not full of **** despite being on a Russian resource. But all these talks only show that Debaltsevo was not fully encircled if almost 2k people managed to pull out in one day.
The last article concentrates on basic human incompetence but it's nothing new. Unlike Russian army, UAF has almost no combat experience.

All in all, your posts are mostly just collages of gruesome images and baseless reports from biased nobodies. Rare legit articles thrown in the mix are taken out of context and cherry-picked. Of course, I realize you did not compile that yourself. Still blame is on you for being such a tool and passing this mash on us.

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sorry not sorry Tem
 
Weaver said:
Wait, you're making a ****post and burden of proof is on me? Are you retarded?

It was a trick question. Of course you are.
But I'll humour you just this once.
First source - some obscure twitter account with a DNR flag for an avatar. The author, some nutjob in Toronto, is reporting the terrorists capturing two battalions worth of tanks, buttload of artillery and APCs and 500 tons of ammo.
And that's after claiming for months that UAF in Debaltsevo have long ago ran out ammo, food and whatnot because they're completely encircled and forsaken. Making fools out of themselves again.
Bull****-meter exploding.
No proof provided either, of course. But what did I expect?
Next source - some gruesome images from a battlefield. Which proves there was battle. Useless.
Next - a video of a platoon surrendering. Of course it's thrown in to draw a fallacious conclusion that all Ukrainian soldiers refuse to fight. Basic propaganda move. Denied.
Next - a dude falling from a tank while being recorded by a host of journalists. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean.
Next - an article which is actually not full of **** despite being on a Russian resource. But all these talks only show that Debaltsevo was not fully encircled if almost 2k people managed to pull out in one day.
The last article concentrates on basic human incompetence but it's nothing new. Unlike Russian army, UAF has almost no combat experience.

All in all, your posts are mostly just collages of gruesome images and baseless reports from biased nobodies. Rare legit articles thrown in the mix are taken out of context and cherry-picked. Of course, I realize you did not compile that yourself. Still blame is on you for being such a tool and passing this mash on us.

B T F O
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I am just curious... why wait till the last minute to evacuate an encircled (near encircled) position? I understand the ground is hard fought for but isn't it a basic military principle not to allow your position to be encircled or even to maintain a position that is in serious danger of encirclement?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11421405/Defeated-Ukrainians-take-the-road-of-life-on-their-retreat-from-Debaltseve.html

I know Poroshenko claims that Debaltsevo was never encircled but somehow I don't trust that that is or was the reality of the situation for obvious reasons. Whil I understand that the term encircled may not be completely accurate if a rear road is still open (a road which afaik has been blocked off at least once), it is still a dangerous position to hold given the near completion of said circle.


In regards to organized retreat vs hasty retreat most of the big English news orgz say the same thing:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31527414
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/18/ukrainian-soldiers-share-horrors-of-debaltseve-battle-after-stinging-defeat
 
While there were UAF in Debaltsevo Gorlovka was potentially vulnerable and terrorists had to concentrate their best efforts on beating UA out of there before moving on to other objectives in earnest.
I personally believe that every shell that landed in desolate Debaltsevo would otherwise have landed in densely populated Mariupol so it was certainly worth holding to.
Let's watch Mariupol closely now and see if I was right.
 
Fair enough but it seems like delaying the inevitable and risking a whole lot of troops to that end. In any case will certainly interesting to see where things go from here. Mariupol certainly sounds right.
 
#DEBALTSEVO - #NAF estimates trophies: over 80 tanks (2 tank batt.; over 100 APCs; 50 arty systems (122 & 152mm); 15 Grads; 500 tons ammo.
Temuzu actually believed this? That's so absurdly blown out of proportion, I guess they don't teach Finnish conscripts much about ordnance. :lol:
 
rejenorst said:
I am just curious... why wait till the last minute to evacuate an encircled (near encircled) position?
What Weaver said - after a 'ceasefire' the seps made sure Ukranian troops won't attack in any direction and they simply abandoned majority of positions and concentrated them near Debaltsevo. Sucj situation would end up bad.
UAF could strike in any other point, but yeah, the 'ceasefire'...

Actually, Putin didn't need any Debaltsevo. What he wanted is a cauldron. Why? Destroying or encircling>disarming (eg humiliating) a large UAF group would cause negative political consequences for president Poroshenko and demoralizing effect for the army. It might end up with Maidan 3.0 + army and coup d'etat ~ a possible collapse of Ukraine.
If you want to know what Putin wants simply read the internet trolls:
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All it says: "TREASON!!! POROSHENKO!! TREASON!!!" etc.
False start. Such reports were prepared for a cauldron.

Instead Putin received an international disappointment after violating the ceasefire and 90% of Debaltsevo group evading encirclement. And wins are, yeah, a ruined city.

Yet seps keep trying to capture other settlements.



Feragorn said:
Why is a Finn rooting for Russian-backed rebels?
Because Finland has never been in the same situation. And they never fought Russian troops. Only their own 'republican' seps:
On December 4 {1939}, comrade Molotov has telegraphed to Avenol. In his answer, he stated that there are no reasons for raising "Finnish question", since the USSR is not in war with Finland. Instead, it helps the People's government of FDR (Finnish Democratic Republic) to get rid of Ryti, Tanner, and Co.
If, nevertheless, the LN meeting will be scheduled, the USSR will not attend.

It is known.



UPD für PinCushion: ^ Sarcasm
 
@ Trueten: Not sure if I am misunderstanding your post allthough I am 95% sure that the Finns fought against Red army from the 30 november 1939–13 mars 1940 then again from 25 june 1941 to the 19 september 1944.

They also had to fought against the Wermacht during the Lapland war in 15 september 1944 - 27 april 1945.

And to be honest, I would guess that most Finns are probably suporting the Ukrainian goverment.
 
Leaving Debaltsevo.





Maidan 18-20 Feb 2014 and now.
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@PinCushion

That was sarcasm.
 
They were escorted 'near' UK airspace away from the UK's area of interest. They didn't cross over into UK airspace.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/19/world/uk-russia-aircraft-intercepted/index.html
 
rejenorst said:
They were escorted 'near' UK airspace away from the UK's area of interest. They didn't cross over into UK airspace.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/19/world/uk-russia-aircraft-intercepted/index.html
Where is this "area of interest" though?  :neutral:
 
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