Troops Gain to little XP and it contradicts the game loop of player progression

[Kribble118]

If the troops are supposed to get the XP they get when we simulate the battle in manual battles, than we shouldn't need a XP boost, but just a fix to the bug that makes them get less XP when we manually fight.
I do believe that this is the source of the problem. Check this out: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...anual-battle-experience-is-unbalanced.407269/

The point being made here is troops gain xp without battle just very slowly and one at a time. As op said training 1 single recruit without battle takes about 20 days. Thats sort of ridiculous and it needs to be made more like warband where training is distributed to all soldiers under your level. On top of that the XP given through training needs to be increased. I by no means expect warband fast but I expect it to be at least possible.

As far as the XP gain from battles that also needs to act similar to warband in that xp was gained from being in battle and not just given to the ones with kills. If this happens your forced to choose between upgrading yourself and or your army. This is why OP said this sort of ruins the player progression. On top of that running around fighting looters just to upgrade your troops gets boring very fast.

 

[Meastx]

+1

 

[Jhaerik]

+1

 

[Kribble118]

It seems no update so far today? maybe their just late on it? oh well guess we can't expect daily updates forever.

 

[Kribble118]

seems it did not address the xp or snowballing issue, back to waiting.

 

[Smorumladida]

+1

It's like hunting looters is 75% of what i do even in late game. You can't even autoresolve other bandits as they will then kill more of your units than they should, so you are bound to looters and their crapy loot all game.

Edit: autoresolved 6 Looters today - 3 troops leveled up. Then fought a field battle ~90vs90~ - not a single level up. This is messed up, it makes the very core element of the game pretty much... yeah, useless.

 

[Kribble118]

+1

It's like hunting looters is 75% of what i do even in late game. You can't even autoresolve other bandits as they will then kill more of your units than they should, so you are bound to looters and their crapy loot all game.

Edit: autoresolved 6 Looters today - 3 troops leveled up. Then fought a field battle ~90vs90~ - not a single level up. This is messed up, it makes the very core element of the game pretty much... yeah, useless.

yeah the xp needs to be handled more like warband. The system in place right now is not very good.

 

[Beaowulf]

+1

 

[Kribble118]

it seems todays update still hasn't addressed this issue. Looks like I'm still waiting sadly.Please fix this taleworlds, im a long tome fan and I want to play bannerlord but the troop progression is just too slow and boring.

 

[9yearsago]

There was "shared experience" system in Warband, after each battle the ones that did not get a kill in the battle still could get some experience by this way and the amount of experience shared depended on hostile party size. This worked really well and needs to be brought back asap.

 

[Caps]

Warband had the trainer skill. That was far better, in late game you could just train ur units by waiting. 1 day and you got rid of all the recruits.

 

[Kribble118]

There was "shared experience" system in Warband, after each battle the ones that did not get a kill in the battle still could get some experience by this way and the amount of experience shared depended on hostile party size. This worked really well and needs to be brought back asap.

Warband had the trainer skill. That was far better, in late game you could just train ur units by waiting. 1 day and you got rid of all the recruits.

I agree with both your points. They need to bring warbands system back a little bit. I wouldn't mind it being harder but it needs to be way easier than right now.

 

[Kribble118]

it seem 1.0.10 didn't address this either

 

[andycott]

As I understood right now auto-resolving battles with looters is an easiest way to gain EXP. And I haven't even tried a single auto-resolve, playing for almost 80 hours since release.

Mind that too fast training will have bad effect, so everyone will be marching the fields with elite soldiers.
Too unrealistic. Nobody can train a group of uneducated peasants in a few days or even weeks. Troops are already learning faster than the player during battles! Why should they learn even faster? I understand that it's a game, but the more realistic it is, the better.

It should be balanced very carefully! Don't be too impatient with this one.
Maybe something is unbalanced right now, but don't make devs unbalance it even for the worst.

 

[Worldsprayer]

and like I mention completely causes the Players character to not be able to Level up their skills, after hours and hours the highest level ive reached in base game without the gain experiance multiplyer mod is 10 and that was 21 hours of playtime release day

What on earth are you doing? Im in the hundreds of several skill sets and im maybe...15 or so hours into a campaign...*
Most perks DO work, only the ones that have direct impacts on the character effects seem broken.
I'm leveling troops like mad to the point that i can afford to keep them all, so whatever you're doing to level troops its simply not working. Troops get points for WHO THEY KILL. So when you are not simulating, the bulk of the kills go to the experienced troops becasue they're the ones surviving to kill opponents.
The simulations seem to look unit groups as a whole and spread them out, so newbie troops get points there. When you want to level up troops but also be there, you need to have pulled out the low tier troops and send them in alone to fight. I tend to give them backup by ramming their opponets with my horse which when done to a whole formation can completely disrupt a defense and allow even tier 1 troops to make hits.

Yes the perk to level troops is WAY too slow I agree, but other than that...leveling your troops is not difficult at all. For me...if the perk would be working, i would have to change how i play to MINIMIZE my leveling in combat.

Also, make use of prisoner recruiment, it helps like crazy and suppliments your losses. I just run around with a train of level1-4 prisoners and recruit them as needed.

Edit: If you spread out your attribute points for an 'even" character youre screwed. The game is designed to have characters be focused on stuff, and those attribute points set the foundation for fast leveling of very specific skills. If eertyhing is in the 3s or 4s...then they're too low and you wont level much.

 

[Beaowulf]

What on earth are you doing? Im in the hundreds of several skill sets and im maybe...15 or so hours into a campaign...*
Most perks DO work, only the ones that have direct impacts on the character effects seem broken.
I'm leveling troops like mad to the point that i can afford to keep them all, so whatever you're doing to level troops its simply not working. Troops get points for WHO THEY KILL. So when you are not simulating, the bulk of the kills go to the experienced troops becasue they're the ones surviving to kill opponents.
The simulations seem to look unit groups as a whole and spread them out, so newbie troops get points there. When you want to level up troops but also be there, you need to have pulled out the low tier troops and send them in alone to fight. I tend to give them backup by ramming their opponets with my horse which when done to a whole formation can completely disrupt a defense and allow even tier 1 troops to make hits.

Yes the perk to level troops is WAY too slow I agree, but other than that...leveling your troops is not difficult at all. For me...if the perk would be working, i would have to change how i play to MINIMIZE my leveling in combat.

Also, make use of prisoner recruiment, it helps like crazy and suppliments your losses. I just run around with a train of level1-4 prisoners and recruit them as needed.

Edit: If you spread out your attribute points for an 'even" character youre screwed. The game is designed to have characters be focused on stuff, and those attribute points set the foundation for fast leveling of very specific skills. If eertyhing is in the 3s or 4s...then they're too low and you wont level much.

my point is, in the auto resolve battles that while YES you level up your troops really fast that way your player character does not gain skill level ups for doing so if you want to level your character and your army, you need to fight the battle, and then it leads to the problem of well if my character gets the kill i get to level up or if my troops get the kill they get to level up, rather than how it should be like in warband where the troops gain XP after a battle itself, thus making it that you are not FORCED to use the auto-resolve feature like we currently are.

 

[andycott]

my point is, in the auto resolve battles that while YES you level up your troops really fast that way your player character does not gain skill level ups for doing so if you want to level your character and your army, you need to fight the battle, and then it leads to the problem of well if my character gets the kill i get to level up or if my troops get the kill they get to level up, rather than how it should be like in warband where the troops gain XP after a battle itself, thus making it that you are not FORCED to use the auto-resolve feature like we currently are.

It shouldn't work exactly like in Warband, but calculation in auto-resolve or in manual battles, or in both needs to be fixed a little bit.

But, f.e., I don't see real problems with auto-resolving battles with looters, at least it shouldn't be considered as an exploit, because it's a logical way to train your troops. In reality why would you send inexperienced troops in battles with elite soldiers, while you can train them on bandits. Also there is no problem with that nobody ever dies in such battles, but only have wounds, because in the same manual battles even having wounds is very rare.

The only problem with balance is that with such calculation AI may have more high tier soldiers, because AI battles are auto-calculated all the time. And AI also battles with looters.
But at the same time AI is weak and player has upper hand, especially in even battles. So it may be more balanced right now than it looks.
Maybe not as intended, but still.

I'm not trying to say that everything is great. Not even close. But this is a system, where everything is interconnected. When you change one thing it will instantly or in a long run have effect on everything else.
It needs to be fixed carefully.

 

[spacecaose]

It shouldn't work exactly like in Warband, but calculation in auto-resolve or in manual battles, or in both needs to be fixed a little bit.

But, f.e., I don't see real problems with auto-resolving battles with looters, at least it shouldn't be considered as an exploit, because it's a logical way to train your troops. In reality why would you send inexperienced troops in battles with elite soldiers, while you can train them on bandits. Also there is no problem with that nobody ever dies in such battles, but only have wounds, because in the same manual battles even having wounds is very rare.

The only problem with balance is that with such calculation AI may have more high tier soldiers, because AI battles are auto-calculated all the time. And AI also battles with looters.
But at the same time AI is weak and player has upper hand, especially in even battles. So it may be more balanced right now than it looks.
Maybe not as intended, but still.

I'm not trying to say that everything is great. Not even close. But this is a system, where everything is interconnected. When you change one thing it will instantly or in a long run have effect on everything else.
It needs to be fixed carefully.

I don't think you're getting what he's trying to say. He's saying that if you fight the battle your weak pathetic low tier unit's get no xp because they're getting no kills, so the xp is either going onto you, or your elite troops. Which make's building up an army very slow and boring. looters are the only decent way of training your low tier units because it distributes the xp to all units, and your unit can't die to looters in a auto-resolve. Having the warbanned leveling up system isn't bad, with tonned down xp, but currently its just a game of playing man hunter to level up your troops.

Also outo-resolving anything that isn't looter will get your units killed. I manged to lose 2 tier 5 legions infantry with and army of 80% archers to 5 bandits, which should of never been able to get close to my front line with so many elite archers.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

 

[Kribble118]

It shouldn't work exactly like in Warband, but calculation in auto-resolve or in manual battles, or in both needs to be fixed a little bit.

But, f.e., I don't see real problems with auto-resolving battles with looters, at least it shouldn't be considered as an exploit, because it's a logical way to train your troops. In reality why would you send inexperienced troops in battles with elite soldiers, while you can train them on bandits. Also there is no problem with that nobody ever dies in such battles, but only have wounds, because in the same manual battles even having wounds is very rare.

The only problem with balance is that with such calculation AI may have more high tier soldiers, because AI battles are auto-calculated all the time. And AI also battles with looters.
But at the same time AI is weak and player has upper hand, especially in even battles. So it may be more balanced right now than it looks.
Maybe not as intended, but still.

I'm not trying to say that everything is great. Not even close. But this is a system, where everything is interconnected. When you change one thing it will instantly or in a long run have effect on everything else.
It needs to be fixed carefully.

Troops only getting upgraded through battles, especially auto resolved is kind of ridiculous. In warband xp was also distributed through the whole party not just to the ones who get kills. If you want to talk about realism, training in actual medieval times was not accomplished by going out and beating up homeless people. I agree it shouldn't be as easy as in warband but it needs to act more like warband.

 

[Kribble118]

I played a little and it seems auto resolve is still way better than normal battles. I'm not sure about troops gaining xp passively yet but it seems it's still done to a single soldier as opposed to the whole group which is something that still needs to be fixed. All in all im glad they took the time to address this issue but it still needs some work.