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Oh right. How did I not see that as a viable excuse. I thought he wasn't driving the car anymore, so I took it.Melfius said:
Not going to bother anymore with you, the mod is probably able to come back to ModDB once it releases a version without using other people's content, and there's no problem with that.
No one was 'death sentencing' anything.
And, you should probably stop double and triple posting, this is a forum and not a chatroom. Have a nice day
Does the materials from Iron Europe count? They said they were already given a permission to use mainly German and French uniforms. Can someone clarify this point?
I think if Hinkel feels that the team of North and South do not agree to share their materials with Parabellum, then state it here clearly, that you guys are pleased to share your materials.
Those in Blood and Iron should do so.
Hinkel is said to be the team leader of the mod North and South. His pictures are evidences that some of Parabellum's models are modified based on theirs. Thus, if he feel that such a conduct is unacceptable to the whole team, then issue a statement states clearly that North and South do not wish to grant permission to Parabellum to use their models.
Every single god-damn mods in this forum is a result of cumulative achievement achieved by predecessors. My understanding is that Parabellum only wishes to become a single player transformation of Iron Europe.
Thus if the team of North and South and Blood Iron wish to not grant Parabellum their permission to use AND modify their models, then your teams can remove any items based on their models. They should produce a definitive statement right here. Then an apology is issued, and that's it.
If they are generous to grant you guys the right to modify their models, then they can state here clearly as well, an apology is still needed, but some token of appreciation should also be included.
Then the team need to remove Battlefield 1's sounds too.
With just Iron Europe's models, it should be enough to design uniforms for other future factions such as Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania.
Also, there is NO evidences so far that Parabellum teams have used Blood and Iron models, please post pictures clearly like last time.
I also read that the pistol holder is found in another mod, not from North and South or Blood and Iron, can Hinkel answers on this? Is it true that the pistol holder is made for your mod only, by your team only, or you guys borrow it from another mod?
Every single god-damn mods in this forum is a result of cumulative achievement achieved by predecessors. My understanding is that Parabellum only wishes to become a single player transformation of Iron Europe.
Thus if the team of North and South and Blood Iron wish to not grant Parabellum their permission to use AND modify their models, then your teams can remove any items based on their models. They should produce a definitive statement right here. Then an apology is issued, and that's it.
If they are generous to grant you guys the right to modify their models, then they can state here clearly as well, an apology is still needed, but some token of appreciation should also be included.
Then the team need to remove Battlefield 1's sounds too.
With just Iron Europe's models, it should be enough to design uniforms for other future factions such as Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania.
Also, there is NO evidences so far that Parabellum teams have used Blood and Iron models, please post pictures clearly like last time.
I also read that the pistol holder is found in another mod, not from North and South or Blood and Iron, can Hinkel answers on this? Is it true that the pistol holder is made for your mod only, by your team only, or you guys borrow it from another mod?
Samsheperd
Recruit
i agree that using bf1 sound was risky... mostly because they come from AAA developers that sell their game/soundtrack... unless you change the sound (pitch, remix, ect...) that kind of sure youll get into trouble... aside that the bf1 music is amazing but i would have love more music from ww1 era (and most of them have no more copyright since there are very old song/music)
for taking texture/asset how can you really prove he did not made it himself?
how can you certified he did not came with a very similar result...?
where talking about mount and blade... and the texture compression and possible end result ect are kind of limited by the engine
he use most of is asset from the red wars... and the uniform look similar in the red wars...
in this kind of game did a grey shirt texture would not be very similar to another grey shirt?
even in between company proving that someone steal your asset/music/sound/coding ect... is very difficult in from of a tribunal
even more when they have been so much modified...
that even more becoming childish when people are fighting over free stuff... and that are kind of very hard to proves...
in the digital era its even possible to trick a file to make it look like it have been create at another time (so the falsely prove you create it before the other one...)
(i know like for music my friends who are musician once they have compose/record watever they have they take ti (the record and original copy of the score/lyric if they have one) and ship it to themselve by registered mail and keep it sealed... if they have to do a claim in court the judge open the seal and then it prove that they have the real original...)
anyway no need to fight i just hope this mod come back without much trouble...
for taking texture/asset how can you really prove he did not made it himself?
how can you certified he did not came with a very similar result...?
where talking about mount and blade... and the texture compression and possible end result ect are kind of limited by the engine
he use most of is asset from the red wars... and the uniform look similar in the red wars...
in this kind of game did a grey shirt texture would not be very similar to another grey shirt?
even in between company proving that someone steal your asset/music/sound/coding ect... is very difficult in from of a tribunal
even more when they have been so much modified...
that even more becoming childish when people are fighting over free stuff... and that are kind of very hard to proves...
in the digital era its even possible to trick a file to make it look like it have been create at another time (so the falsely prove you create it before the other one...)
(i know like for music my friends who are musician once they have compose/record watever they have they take ti (the record and original copy of the score/lyric if they have one) and ship it to themselve by registered mail and keep it sealed... if they have to do a claim in court the judge open the seal and then it prove that they have the real original...)
anyway no need to fight i just hope this mod come back without much trouble...
It would be hard to say that you can draw the logo of Coca-Cola independently when that logo has existed before your birthday for some 100 years.
Even if the Parabellum team comes up with something extremely similar to North and South, for example, the latter still has the right to protest since the chronology of appearance must be taken into account. First comers usually win.
But we just try to cultivate an atmosphere of respect and conciliation here, so I believe honesty from the part of Parabellum is of utmost importance.
We are awaiting for North and South's team definite response. We want to hear their definitive statement on this issue.
Melfius, I am anxious to see your mod resurface again in Moddb. I am actually Jebelu who posted lots of photos and videos about Russian military uniform on your thread on Russia. I am playing a role of a mediator here and I wish that this thread will contain all evidences from all related sides so we can proceed with the right course of action.
Yes, all from North and South WILL BE REMOVED immediately if Hinkel, as a representative of the North and South Team, rejects us outright the right to modify their current or PAST models. This is the gesture that resolves all conflicts between all sides.
As I said, it is not difficult to see that Parabellum WILL prosper with just materials left by Iron Europe.
I totally have that in mind but forget to put it in words, a continuation and EXTENSION of Iron Europe. Parabellum can be rightfully viewed as a successor of Iron Europe.
Hinkel84
Master Knight
Melfius said:
I am very sorry, but you are really embarrassing yourself, if you continue to try to defend Master_CopyPaster
Like I said, its not just 1-2 things stolen from NaS, there are more then 100 assets/textures involved.
The Holster
The Holster is not from "the wild wind", it was made in 2009 for MY Empire Total War mod "The Blue and the Grey". I even have the original texture file, which is being used for that holster:
As you can see here, its part of the officer model, we used in that mod. So stop saying, its not from my mods!
Blood and Iron
Unlike you said, there are TONS of assets in "Parabellum mod", which were just ripped off Blood and Iron too.
Helmets, hats, uniforms and more. Like I said, I could post TONS of comparison screenshots, I just took one example for the hats.
The uniform (also the equipment) in that picture is also based on an asset, right from North and South.
Random example 1
Here is a random comparison of his russian uniform preview.
As you can see, its a copy/paste of an original North and South uniform (below), and then altering it his way. A good proof is the comparison of the normal maps, look at the folds of the sleeves.
Random example 2
EVERY single uniform item you see here is ripped of from North and South / Blood and Iron. 15 assets in just that single screen.
SOO.. its not like removing 1-2 items. There is way more then that to do.
I can't understand, why people still trying to defend him. The modder even named himself "Master Copy/Paster", he is nothing more then that, a Copy/Paster.
Samsheperd said:
Have a look above.. you have some good proofs! It clearly shows 1:1 comparisons..
You guys have seen all for yourself in Hinkel's latest reply.
This means Parabellum deserves to be erased from Modbb until all of her contents stolen from other mods (except for Iron Europe) are removed.
In my understanding, the practice of taking a model from one mod and put it in another is extremely popular among individual players. You like a gun from North and South, you put it in Parabellum. It is tolerable if you just do that for personal enjoyment and do not release anything to the public.
Copying somebody models is also fine if you are looking to learn how to model, how to texture and such.
But it is a violation of ethics if you simply copy and modify other people's models WITHOUT asking for permission IN ADVANCE and release it as a separate mod. This is unacceptable no matter from which point of view you stand.
Thus, it is clear that these following steps must be taken before Parabellum could be released from prison:
- Remove all downloadable installer of their 1.0 and 1.2 (because they have already contained many stole items). This means the mod will be put back to developing stage with no playable demo yet.
- A sincere apology must be issued here and in Moddb to the team of North and South and Blood and Iron from Mastercopypaster.
- Parabellum must remove all stolen items (this means almost all civilian clothes and military clothes except for those of the French and German army) from their next planned release.
- If they wish to use and modify some models from North and South and Blood and Iron, they have to send request for permission to these two respective teams. (Note however that these two mods are still in development and the teams may not wish to share their asset).
- All sounds from Battlefield 1 must be removed.
- It is announced by mastercopy_paster that he intends to use the European-Levant map from 1257AD. This mod has reached its development peak and might grant the permission to Parabellum. Nevertherless, a request of permission must be issued to former team members in order to prevent another outrageous reaction.
Now, I want to ask one thing:
What about those gun models in Parabellum, the newly released Caracano rifle is the original design of Parabellum? Or is it simply modified from other mod's models? I have not heard any complain about gun models, can Hinkel check on some of them?
Hinkel still has not produced a definitive statement of whether he could accept the fact that Parabellum might use and modify some of his team's models (those that might be abandoned later). If he wish to not grant them permission whatsoever, state it here clearly!
It should be also stated clearly to what extent modification is acceptable if permission is granted.
I urge the Parabellum team to deal with this issue with utmost honesty. You guys still have a large public support at this moment. If you persist to deny the act of copying other mods' materials despite evidences proving the contrary, then you will lose that support too, and might lead to the death sentence that nobody here wishes to happen.
Let's do what is right so that we can restore the mod to Moddb. It is 2017, it is quite meaningful to release this mod this year since we are still within 4 years of anniversary of the World War 1 (1914-1918; 2014-201.
This means Parabellum deserves to be erased from Modbb until all of her contents stolen from other mods (except for Iron Europe) are removed.
In my understanding, the practice of taking a model from one mod and put it in another is extremely popular among individual players. You like a gun from North and South, you put it in Parabellum. It is tolerable if you just do that for personal enjoyment and do not release anything to the public.
Copying somebody models is also fine if you are looking to learn how to model, how to texture and such.
But it is a violation of ethics if you simply copy and modify other people's models WITHOUT asking for permission IN ADVANCE and release it as a separate mod. This is unacceptable no matter from which point of view you stand.
Thus, it is clear that these following steps must be taken before Parabellum could be released from prison:
- Remove all downloadable installer of their 1.0 and 1.2 (because they have already contained many stole items). This means the mod will be put back to developing stage with no playable demo yet.
- A sincere apology must be issued here and in Moddb to the team of North and South and Blood and Iron from Mastercopypaster.
- Parabellum must remove all stolen items (this means almost all civilian clothes and military clothes except for those of the French and German army) from their next planned release.
- If they wish to use and modify some models from North and South and Blood and Iron, they have to send request for permission to these two respective teams. (Note however that these two mods are still in development and the teams may not wish to share their asset).
- All sounds from Battlefield 1 must be removed.
- It is announced by mastercopy_paster that he intends to use the European-Levant map from 1257AD. This mod has reached its development peak and might grant the permission to Parabellum. Nevertherless, a request of permission must be issued to former team members in order to prevent another outrageous reaction.
Now, I want to ask one thing:
What about those gun models in Parabellum, the newly released Caracano rifle is the original design of Parabellum? Or is it simply modified from other mod's models? I have not heard any complain about gun models, can Hinkel check on some of them?
Hinkel still has not produced a definitive statement of whether he could accept the fact that Parabellum might use and modify some of his team's models (those that might be abandoned later). If he wish to not grant them permission whatsoever, state it here clearly!
It should be also stated clearly to what extent modification is acceptable if permission is granted.
I urge the Parabellum team to deal with this issue with utmost honesty. You guys still have a large public support at this moment. If you persist to deny the act of copying other mods' materials despite evidences proving the contrary, then you will lose that support too, and might lead to the death sentence that nobody here wishes to happen.
Let's do what is right so that we can restore the mod to Moddb. It is 2017, it is quite meaningful to release this mod this year since we are still within 4 years of anniversary of the World War 1 (1914-1918; 2014-201
.Please take a close look again at the uniform that provided by Hinkel, the modified uniform is known as Vaegir White Infantry uniform.
The belt buckle is written clearly as US. The buckle of a true Imperial Russian Infantry should have a double-eagle standard inscribed on it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/140804609204?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
Tsar Nicholas II would execute the whole Parabellum team if he found out that they copied that buckle from the US army. This is treason and a disgrace to the Imperial Army.
We all understand you guys just want to build up a great mod, but you guys should be more careful and sensible when using others' materials.
Let's apologise first, and do what is right to be pardoned.
The police officer is the clearest example that Parabellum has taken the uniform from Blood and Iron:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/blood-and-iron/images/british-metropolitan-police#imagebox
The belt buckle is written clearly as US. The buckle of a true Imperial Russian Infantry should have a double-eagle standard inscribed on it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/140804609204?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
Tsar Nicholas II would execute the whole Parabellum team if he found out that they copied that buckle from the US army. This is treason and a disgrace to the Imperial Army.
Still, even if these uniforms are only provisional, Parabellum team should have asked permission from North and South and Blood and Iron. I consider the issue of legitimacy is closed here. Parabellum is found guilty and must take serious rectifying measure.
We all understand you guys just want to build up a great mod, but you guys should be more careful and sensible when using others' materials.
Let's apologise first, and do what is right to be pardoned.
You gave examples from North and South. We wish to see at least one example from Blood and Iron. Everything must be produced with proof so to convince people.
The police officer is the clearest example that Parabellum has taken the uniform from Blood and Iron:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/blood-and-iron/images/british-metropolitan-police#imagebox
Since you can contact mastercopypaster, direct him to this thread.
Russian army needs to start anew. (the current uniform for red and white are not acceptable anyway).
Austrian-Hungary needs to add lots of stuff.
Britain anew
France new uniforms for colonial troops (this time should include Indochinese).
So lots to do, and remove.
Easy or not, they should be all removed.
Russian army needs to start anew. (the current uniform for red and white are not acceptable anyway).
Austrian-Hungary needs to add lots of stuff.
Britain anew
France new uniforms for colonial troops (this time should include Indochinese).
So lots to do, and remove.
You know how to model and texture?
Just ask since I wonder if you can make a tutorial directly applied to this mod. I want to try a hand in this.
An example of an Indochinese (Vietnamese) troops in uniform. They are known as "tirailleurs annamites". THough served mostly as labourers, like the Chinese labour batallions in the British army, some of them were in combat in Salonika and Macedonian front.
Inhumane treatments of the French authority to colonial subject was reflected in Ho Chi Minh's treatise "Le proces de la colonisation francaise" (French Colonialism on Trial). Memories are fresh when the Vietnamese attempt to establish an independent republic in 1945
Just ask since I wonder if you can make a tutorial directly applied to this mod. I want to try a hand in this.
The map can stay right in Europe and colonial troops will serve there. This is historically accurate.
An example of an Indochinese (Vietnamese) troops in uniform. They are known as "tirailleurs annamites". THough served mostly as labourers, like the Chinese labour batallions in the British army, some of them were in combat in Salonika and Macedonian front.
Inhumane treatments of the French authority to colonial subject was reflected in Ho Chi Minh's treatise "Le proces de la colonisation francaise" (French Colonialism on Trial). Memories are fresh when the Vietnamese attempt to establish an independent republic in 1945
Tovias said:
Yeah can I get in on that link too? This is the best M&B mod I've seen in years
Melfius
Recruit
Marmud said:You know how to model and texture?
Just ask since I wonder if you can make a tutorial directly applied to this mod. I want to try a hand in this.
The map can stay right in Europe and colonial troops will serve there. This is historically accurate.
An example of an Indochinese (Vietnamese) troops in uniform. They are known as "tirailleurs annamites". THough served mostly as labourers, like the Chinese labour batallions in the British army, some of them were in combat in Salonika and Macedonian front.
Inhumane treatments of the French authority to colonial subject was reflected in Ho Chi Minh's treatise "Le proces de la colonisation francaise" (French Colonialism on Trial). Memories are fresh when the Vietnamese attempt to establish an independent republic in 1945
No, i sadly dont know about modelling, just texturing. I would aslo like a tutorial or this mod. Try sending a PM to pizzaman6 on modb, hes the most active tester, or send a PM to master_copypaster, when he gets ok, im sure he will help you.
EDIT: If you want, you can make the uniform for the french colonial troops, just reskining hte current one to brown and adding the corresponding insignia, here are some images:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5e/ef/0c/5eef0c343c1a1854a41e2e92c6dd1111.jpg
https://eurotravhist.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/hacken-colon-uniforms.jpg
https://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/41151_press02-001.jpg
Check the "Textures" folder, on the parabellum module folder. Search for french uniform or something like that. It should be a .dds file. To open it you need Photoshop CS6 and the nvidia plugin here: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-adobe-photoshop
Thats how ive done my custom german helmet texture: http://www.moddb.com/games/mount-blade-warband/addons/the-parabellum-new-stahlhelm-camo-texture/#6461750
EDIT 2: It would be nic eto have "tirallieur annamites" in the french troop tree. If you want to make their skin, they should look like this, an easy job:
Nah, they should be available in Marseilles only, that's the main port where the Indochinese came to France. Their number should be small, even smaller than African colonial troops.
You can actually try to watch these tutorials:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3JbVJGXKCg
They are for Blender.
We can learn and become more active contributors to this mod.
Shame. Shame. Shame. Shame. As someone also tied in with the Battle for Yugoslavia mod, it seems like almost all of the modern tech mods (with only a couple precious exceptions) have been rife with theft.
I found this on ModDB a while back, noticed it had been taken down and was not sure how or why. But when I saw a comment purporting to be from the developer saying they were in contact with the site and that the site had said it was a glitch or screwup on their end and they were working on fixing it..well, I guess I accepted it. So I dug up a download for the mod elsewhere and got it. Fool for me.
To the OP and "Developer" (a term I use loosely in light of the documented plagiarism involved). WHY? Just W-H-Y? Why did you feel like doing this would be of any kind of benefit to this? How did you think it would accomplish anything except permanently black marking your name and reputation and putting the entire mod under a shadow of shame? And what I find especially damning is the fact that in my experience, mod creators and devs for this game are INCREDIBLY nice and generous. More often than not, just *asking* them for permission will have them more than happy to give you it, so long as you duly note what of their stuff is being used. Heck, when Marko took over what is now the Battle for Yugoslavia mod project (an excellent endeavor that I encourage everyone to check out, by the way) from the guy who previously stole and plagarized a ton, most of the victims left in the dust by the previous sleazebag were STILL more than receptive to letting us work with their assets so long as we were public about what happened.
But no. Apparently the lazy, dishonest way had to triumph. And now we have this.
And it is a real shame. Because I feel like this mod as it is deserves some discussion about what the heck it is even though the controversy has (justly) overshadowed how it plays. Because there is a lot that this mod does right, and not all of it can be due to blatant theft.
in particular, it is a much, MUCH better depiction of full blooded, combined arms modern warfare on the M&B engine than I have ever seen previously. The artillery, the armored fighting vehicles, the machine guns, the mortars, the PLANES, they are all there and they work quite well, and whoever put them together deserves credit. Because usually what you get is a mod staff that only focuses on infantry and cavalry, which can be fitting for some settings but also results in mods that imply the Japanese didn't bring a single tank or plane into China from 1937 to 1940 (Hello WWII Battlefield China). And this is something I felt was sorely missing even from The Red Wars (though they are working on that for the next release, 1.9). Ditto with how the mods that even feature artillery- and even paid games like Caribbean!- just dump a bunch of cannons and their users right next to the infantry and horses at the start line or have them be props during sieges.
The system here works much better. And frankly it makes me wonder what could have been accomplished.
So perhaps against my better judgement, I will not be deletign this mod from my hard drive. At least not yet. In part because I have been having too much damn fun, and I think this does integrate things much better.
But I also can't support this kind of conduct.
Shame.
Shame.
Shame!
To Hinkel84 and the other modders... I am sorry you guys were put through this.
I found this on ModDB a while back, noticed it had been taken down and was not sure how or why. But when I saw a comment purporting to be from the developer saying they were in contact with the site and that the site had said it was a glitch or screwup on their end and they were working on fixing it..well, I guess I accepted it. So I dug up a download for the mod elsewhere and got it. Fool for me.
To the OP and "Developer" (a term I use loosely in light of the documented plagiarism involved). WHY? Just W-H-Y? Why did you feel like doing this would be of any kind of benefit to this? How did you think it would accomplish anything except permanently black marking your name and reputation and putting the entire mod under a shadow of shame? And what I find especially damning is the fact that in my experience, mod creators and devs for this game are INCREDIBLY nice and generous. More often than not, just *asking* them for permission will have them more than happy to give you it, so long as you duly note what of their stuff is being used. Heck, when Marko took over what is now the Battle for Yugoslavia mod project (an excellent endeavor that I encourage everyone to check out, by the way) from the guy who previously stole and plagarized a ton, most of the victims left in the dust by the previous sleazebag were STILL more than receptive to letting us work with their assets so long as we were public about what happened.
But no. Apparently the lazy, dishonest way had to triumph. And now we have this.
And it is a real shame. Because I feel like this mod as it is deserves some discussion about what the heck it is even though the controversy has (justly) overshadowed how it plays. Because there is a lot that this mod does right, and not all of it can be due to blatant theft.
in particular, it is a much, MUCH better depiction of full blooded, combined arms modern warfare on the M&B engine than I have ever seen previously. The artillery, the armored fighting vehicles, the machine guns, the mortars, the PLANES, they are all there and they work quite well, and whoever put them together deserves credit. Because usually what you get is a mod staff that only focuses on infantry and cavalry, which can be fitting for some settings but also results in mods that imply the Japanese didn't bring a single tank or plane into China from 1937 to 1940 (Hello WWII Battlefield China). And this is something I felt was sorely missing even from The Red Wars (though they are working on that for the next release, 1.9). Ditto with how the mods that even feature artillery- and even paid games like Caribbean!- just dump a bunch of cannons and their users right next to the infantry and horses at the start line or have them be props during sieges.
The system here works much better. And frankly it makes me wonder what could have been accomplished.
So perhaps against my better judgement, I will not be deletign this mod from my hard drive. At least not yet. In part because I have been having too much damn fun, and I think this does integrate things much better.
But I also can't support this kind of conduct.
Shame.
Shame.
Shame!
To Hinkel84 and the other modders... I am sorry you guys were put through this.
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