The case for Battanian pikes (Schiltron formation)

[Reiksmarshal]

The purpose of this thread is to debate why the Battanian faction should have pikes as a weapon and be a viable tactic against their enemies. With the factions that surround them like the Vlandians and the Western Empire and their own lack of heavy cavalry it only makes sense. The term Schiltron dates back to 1000 AD and the Picts used long two handed spears against the Romano British cavalry long before that. So there is a historical context if that is important but the Battanian roster needs a tune up and a pike unit would make them more unique and would fit as a logical tactic to use against the heavy cavalry of their enemies.

Spoiler: Picts

This is just one aspect of the Battanian faction where I feel the devs really are missing a good opportunity to give them a niche unit that fits their fighting style. Also where the heck is their regular archer unit?

 

[MinhTien]

First, polearm units need to actually use their polearms while holding position. Too often (nearly always I feel), infantries just stand their ground with 1h weapons and let cavalry walk all over and right through their formation with little to no opposition because they don't even bother to pull out their polearms. If that doesn't change then any pikemen would just be arrow baits.

The Clan Warrior-Oathsworn line feels rather lackluster right now, while Wildling line seems to be plain better infantry. If they improve their spear-using ability, then Oathsworn can already fill this anti-cavalary role.

IME, Battania armies actually have lots of horsemen. In fact, I think they have too many horsemen and could switch 1 line of horseman for common archers, but there are a lot of other opinions on that.

 

[geala]

No. Pike troops are too vulnerable to projectiles and also not able to defend well in close combat. Battanians should be unarmored or very lightly armored, so there should be no similar troop to the armored Vlandian or Empire pikemen.

Instead TW should try to get spears right. I use mods which make spears faster, change the stupid collision restrictions and increase melee pierce damage; I actually use spears in close combat now, the AI should be able too. Spears were the most potent weapons on the battlefields, they should be a viable alternative in M+B.

I always play as Battanian and usually only use Battanian troops. However I changed the troop tree (based on the mod "Woods of Battania") and the equipment, to make it clearer and more special. My troops have few armor but the spearmen are ok, with big shields and the mainstay of the line (I use a mod which changes wages, Oathsworn are too expensive with it, so I use Picked Warrior mainly). The Wildling in my case is a naked skirmisher, rather squishy, the Falxman an armored twohanded axeman (modeled after the Irish/Scottish Galloglas).

What the Battanians need is an ordinary troop archer line. They also need more clothings and armors with bare legs.

 

[bestmods168]

Reply ro ur first picture

 

[bestmods168]

Reply to ur aecond picture. Notice their how theyre holding their polearms

 

[bestmods168]

And to show the updated effectiveness

 

[bestmods168]

Spears were useless. A modder was so pissed off. He fixed it.
Horse charges were useless. A modder was so pissed off, he fixed it
Reinforcement spawns were useless. A modder was so pissed off, he fixed it.
Perks were useless. A modder was so pissed off, he fixed it.
"Insert here" was useless. A modder was so pissed off, he fixed it.

 

[bestmods168]

And if all else fails. Just use this combination.

 

[bestmods168]

I guess its just not that important and the thread is nothing but baseless bickering. Thread locked.

 

[TomaSkTemplar]

so, suggestions are as usual ridiculous, as well as modders trying to be the center of attention with their similar bull.

You guys are awesome, find a problem, make a solution that is even worse than doing nothing.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

I guess its just not that important and the thread is nothing but baseless bickering. Thread locked.

Baseless? There are plenty of historical accounts of the Picts using long two handed spears, the Aberlemno stone is one example.

so, suggestions are as usual ridiculous, as well as modders trying to be the center of attention with their similar bull.

You guys are awesome, find a problem, make a solution that is even worse than doing nothing.

What is ridiculous about it? If the Battanians are inspired by the Scots, Welsh, and Irish it is in line with some of the tactics used by the Scots/Picts. How else do the people of the forest face cavalry superiority? If they prefer to fight on foot (based on game canon) using long spears in combination with their powerful bows is the logical choice and would work once the polearm issues are resolved. The only thing ridiculous in this thread is the break down of free thought and the weakass attempts to shout them down.