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hi! 
i was thinkin'....have you ever thought changin' the rhodok in a more filo-polish faction?? in this way you could add another type of strong cavalry that can match the swadian one...and more you could keep the pseudo-lithuanian units as "ausiliaries"..so..what you say?
i was thinkin'....have you ever thought changin' the rhodok in a more filo-polish faction?? in this way you could add another type of strong cavalry that can match the swadian one...and more you could keep the pseudo-lithuanian units as "ausiliaries"..so..what you say?
I sometimes indeed wish for engagements between knights, maybe another "western"-looking faction? though that would probably mean making another map...
Speaking of which, ever considered some sort of formations ? For heavy cavalry, like the Swadian's at least, it kinda bugs me to see the knights charge in total disorder and not in some sort of tight conroi...
Speaking of which, ever considered some sort of formations ? For heavy cavalry, like the Swadian's at least, it kinda bugs me to see the knights charge in total disorder and not in some sort of tight conroi...
jan_boruta
Sergeant at Arms
This could work for me, but I'm not sure if it's really necessary. The "Lithuanian" feel of the Rhodoks is really compelling and does the job very well.CinuzIta said:i was thinkin'....have you ever thought changin' the rhodok in a more filo-polish faction?? in this way you could add another type of strong cavalry that can match the swadian one...and more you could keep the pseudo-lithuanian units as "ausiliaries"..so..what you say?
And this is obvious, I hope. In XIIIth century Poland and Lithuania were more like enemies than allies.
jan_boruta
Sergeant at Arms
Poland and Lithuania were unified by the person of Lithuanian Grand Duke Jogaila after the Union of Krewo in 1385 A.D. which stated that the union will occur only if Lithuania converts to catholicism and Jogaila marries Polish queen Jadwiga. In return, Jogaila was guaranteed to reclaim his lost lands, including Eastern Pomerania, then controlled by the Teutonic Order. Jogaila is also known as Wladislaus Jagiello or Wladislaus II of Poland.
So if the mod takes place in 1257 A.D., a separate faction should be created for Poland. In that year unified Poland was still recovering from a two hundred years' period of fragmentation into small duchies.
So if the mod takes place in 1257 A.D., a separate faction should be created for Poland. In that year unified Poland was still recovering from a two hundred years' period of fragmentation into small duchies.
Latinikon said:
What do you mean ?
The Swadians already kinda play that role, don't they ?
CinuzIta said:maybe he wanted to say the holy roman empire...
Oh yea, silly me, that's probable...
Well, the Swadians are a religious order as it is now, so the main difference would be in that overpowering presence of crosses on shields and surcoats :p
Spanky
Veteran
Thanks for the input guys. I won't be able to comment on every suggestion but I will be sure to consider them all for future updates. Keep them coming.
The territory of the Teutonic Order would be beyond the borders of this map if we take it to be based roughly on the Baltic states of today... the Livonian Order, as mentioned before was by then incorporated into the Teutonic, but left autonomous. Hence no actual teutonic knights, or half brothers with Ts on them... The Holy Roman Empire would be even further away.
This is also partly why the Rhodoks are based more on the Lithuanians and native Prussians than the Poles. The Lithuanians are especially interesting because they put up a resistance even on the religious front; being pretty much the last European people to convert to Christianity.
Yeah, another Western faction would be fun. It would be something for another map, there is this idea I've been playing with...
The great thing about the historical setup in the Baltic is that each faction can be a different culture, which at the moment, as we haven't got the possibility of realistically moving banners, helps overcome the difficulty of keeping apart your own troops from the enemy in a time where troops weren't wearing real uniforms and knights all had their individual heraldry.
Conrois - personally, I give my cavalry the order to "stand closer" and hope for the best... the current implementation of the formations mod has a couple of problems with it, which is why it isn't in there yet, as opposed to morale, which will be in the next update. Maybe we'll find a solution in the future.
The territory of the Teutonic Order would be beyond the borders of this map if we take it to be based roughly on the Baltic states of today... the Livonian Order, as mentioned before was by then incorporated into the Teutonic, but left autonomous. Hence no actual teutonic knights, or half brothers with Ts on them... The Holy Roman Empire would be even further away.
This is also partly why the Rhodoks are based more on the Lithuanians and native Prussians than the Poles. The Lithuanians are especially interesting because they put up a resistance even on the religious front; being pretty much the last European people to convert to Christianity.
Sidus Preclarum said:
Yeah, another Western faction would be fun. It would be something for another map, there is this idea I've been playing with...
The great thing about the historical setup in the Baltic is that each faction can be a different culture, which at the moment, as we haven't got the possibility of realistically moving banners, helps overcome the difficulty of keeping apart your own troops from the enemy in a time where troops weren't wearing real uniforms and knights all had their individual heraldry.
Conrois - personally, I give my cavalry the order to "stand closer" and hope for the best... the current implementation of the formations mod has a couple of problems with it, which is why it isn't in there yet, as opposed to morale, which will be in the next update. Maybe we'll find a solution in the future.
Spanky said:
Imho, the problem lays mainly with the Ai handling its heavy cavalry. ie sending them isolated on suicide charges.
Somewhat related, I find that the side that is at a numerical disadvantage charges headlong too often, instead of drawing into a defensive formation...
Spongly
Knight
Not that many suggestions for this mod really, since I think visually it's spot on and really well balanced anyway. More variety of mercenaries would be nice though, and a good way of throwing open a few more countries from the wider world.
In addition, a change in AI would obviously be great, but I doubt if it's really possible - Nords should regularly just use the hold position and advance commands though, so that they move in a rough approximation of a shield wall.
Some new different varieties of great helm would be nice, as well as some of the spiky choppers from the Maciejowski bible. Some tunics and other civilian clothes would be good, both for low ranking footsoldiers and for people in taverns and lords in their castles. The dagged edge gambesons from the Maciejowski bible are cool as well. In fact, I assume you might already know of this, but a good visual source for items for this mod would be:
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/maciejowski_bible.htm
In addition, a change in AI would obviously be great, but I doubt if it's really possible - Nords should regularly just use the hold position and advance commands though, so that they move in a rough approximation of a shield wall.
Some new different varieties of great helm would be nice, as well as some of the spiky choppers from the Maciejowski bible. Some tunics and other civilian clothes would be good, both for low ranking footsoldiers and for people in taverns and lords in their castles. The dagged edge gambesons from the Maciejowski bible are cool as well. In fact, I assume you might already know of this, but a good visual source for items for this mod would be:
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/maciejowski_bible.htm
In agreement with the post above.
Also, maybe non -white gambissons. Maybe not the orange or blue ones that can be seen in the Meciejowski bible, that probably are coloured thus just for the aesthetical value, emulating the looks of the knights themselves, but brownish stuff, perharps?
And kettle hats on some of the knights and swadian knights... (maybe there are some, but I don't recall seeing any)
(also: painted kettle hats pls ? :p :monomaniac: )
Also, maybe non -white gambissons. Maybe not the orange or blue ones that can be seen in the Meciejowski bible, that probably are coloured thus just for the aesthetical value, emulating the looks of the knights themselves, but brownish stuff, perharps?
And kettle hats on some of the knights and swadian knights... (maybe there are some, but I don't recall seeing any)
(also: painted kettle hats pls ? :p :monomaniac: )
Spanky
Veteran
Spongly, yup that is the main source for this mod.
I asked Ursca if he had any spare time to make some new helmet models but he is very busy at the moment. I am willing to wait since it would be great if he could do them in his usual quality style, for consistency. There is a single-slit great helm that was also common at the time, and of course the famous angled kettle hat.
Knights actually do use kettle hats, Sidus. The probability for them to wear them is set lower than the other helms. I'm sure you'll run into some. With the new updated chain mail and greater number of compatible helmets, the variety will increase in the next update.
You guys will be happy to know that I've been working on some color variations on the tunics and gambesons. Not that many so far, but I already see it making a difference in the current build I have. The gambeson (here being the "padded cloth", since the "gambesons" are too short for the period) is difficult to retexture but I resurrected the yellow version from the old models and made it paler. This is now used by Swadian and mercenary footsoldiers.
Additionally, townsfolk, peasants, Sea Raiders, forest bandits, Rhodoks and Northmen have two new versions of the shirt/linen tunic, green and gray. Together with the white and brown, this rounds out one of the classic items of clothing of the period. I'll be giving them to some of the Western-type footsoldiers as well. I'm deliberately shying away from primary colors for these guys because some of those dyes were so expensive they could only be afforded by nobles, especially blue.
Here's how the new shirts look:
I asked Ursca if he had any spare time to make some new helmet models but he is very busy at the moment. I am willing to wait since it would be great if he could do them in his usual quality style, for consistency. There is a single-slit great helm that was also common at the time, and of course the famous angled kettle hat.
Knights actually do use kettle hats, Sidus. The probability for them to wear them is set lower than the other helms. I'm sure you'll run into some. With the new updated chain mail and greater number of compatible helmets, the variety will increase in the next update.
You guys will be happy to know that I've been working on some color variations on the tunics and gambesons. Not that many so far, but I already see it making a difference in the current build I have. The gambeson (here being the "padded cloth", since the "gambesons" are too short for the period) is difficult to retexture but I resurrected the yellow version from the old models and made it paler. This is now used by Swadian and mercenary footsoldiers.
Additionally, townsfolk, peasants, Sea Raiders, forest bandits, Rhodoks and Northmen have two new versions of the shirt/linen tunic, green and gray. Together with the white and brown, this rounds out one of the classic items of clothing of the period. I'll be giving them to some of the Western-type footsoldiers as well. I'm deliberately shying away from primary colors for these guys because some of those dyes were so expensive they could only be afforded by nobles, especially blue.
Here's how the new shirts look:
Spanky
Veteran
Spongly said:
I've been thinking of expanding the number of NPCs you can recruit, and having them represent a couple of interesting factions of the world back then (e.g. a Byzantine, a Hospitaller, one or two famous knights). It's a bit further down the line because it would involve a lot of artwork. Not sure about the technical obstacles to adding NPCs, it seems that it's been done in other mods.
Latinikon
Knight
Hej Spanky! I dont wanna be a bugger, but now that mercenaries are mentioned...
Current merc troop tree goes as:
..... Watchman - Caravan guard - Swordsman ------ Knight
* * *
* *-Horseman - Man at arms*
*
*
*- Crossbowman
So, path to the mighty Knights through Swordsman is shorter and easier than through Horseman/Man at arms path.
If you could put an extra unit between Swordsmen and Knights than these upgrade paths would be equal.
Somethin like Heavy swordsman, Armored sergeant, Dismounted knight, Foot knight... A surcoat armored unit? you have plenty of good ideas
Current merc troop tree goes as:
..... Watchman - Caravan guard - Swordsman ------ Knight
* * *
* *-Horseman - Man at arms*
*
*
*- Crossbowman
So, path to the mighty Knights through Swordsman is shorter and easier than through Horseman/Man at arms path.
If you could put an extra unit between Swordsmen and Knights than these upgrade paths would be equal.
Somethin like Heavy swordsman, Armored sergeant, Dismounted knight, Foot knight... A surcoat armored unit? you have plenty of good ideas
Spanky said:
well but...uhm...sorry to say that but i've to say that it isn't such a great idea in my opinion...of course i'll explain you why...if the swordsman would upgrade in somethin' more heavier (just like dismounted knight, that became the normal knights with the next upgrade) we'll have more different troop types...if you upgrade the swordsman into man at arms, thinkin' it's no more necessary because we'll have always the man at arms in the middle...okay maybe i haven't explain it very well..XD..tell me if you haven't understand....i'll try to explain it more clearly...
just keep in mind this: more infantry good, same old cavalry bad...=P
