[Suggestion] factional item shops

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socks

Master Knight
WB
While the current basically random item system worked fine in 1.011, with the recent influx of factional items, I don't really think it's working. What I mean is finding 'Vaegir Elite Armor' in a Rhodoks shop, or a 'Sarranid Arming Sword' in Tihr. For one thing, it's stupid in principle, and for another, it makes finding items much harder.

So what I'm suggesting is that items be set to specific faction towns. Items could be set as being available in more than one faction if they are more universal, such as a mail hauberk or saddle horse. This way you won't find a desert horse in Richaveg :???:
 

Thundertrod

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNW
The Trade carvans move stuff buy low selling high all over the map. There are allso warbands stomping around enemys lands then returnning gome to sell there plunder.
 

Egbert

Master Knight
M&BWB
I really like this suggestion. Although if Taleworlds won't do it, please make an item flag or something in the module system to make it easy for modders to do.


Thundertrod said:
The Trade carvans move stuff buy low selling high all over the map. There are allso warbands stomping around enemys lands then returnning gome to sell there plunder.
Unless Warband is different, this is not what happens. In Mount and Blade the caravans only transfer the average price levels for trade goods (they do not actually move any goods). Armor and weapon merchant's inventory just gets refilled from the town's wealth amount.
 

Wheem

Grandmaster Knight
WF&SVCWB
Unless Warband is different, this is not what happens. In Mount and Blade the caravans only transfer the average price levels for trade goods (they do not actually move any goods). Armor and weapon merchant's inventory just gets refilled from the town's wealth amount.
I think the other poster's point was that caravans and war parties give reasons for finding Khergit Bows (for example) in Swadian shops.

Personally, I think the best way to handle it would be having percentage-based chances of finding faction items in various shops; ie, you're far more likely to find Vaegir Armor in Rivacheg than you are in Veluca, but it could still appear in both places.

Still, with a release date of March 30 and some features/dialogue not completed yet, I don't think something like this will be a priority for making release. However, it might be nice to implement with some future patch if they get the time/manpower available. Like someone else said, it would also help some modders.
 
It always happens that once I pick a faction in a game, I immediately never find any of their items.

I don't want to be Marshall of the Swadian forces whilst wearing random bits of Khergit/bandit/Rhodok armour. :sad:
 

CtrlAltDe1337

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
Its realistic.  After all, how many countries use U.S. weapons?  How much stuff in America has a sticker that says "made in China" ?  People back them traded too.  However, I do think you should be more likely to find faction-specific gear.  For example, about 30-40% of the stuff would be foreign, and the rest native equipment/food/weapons/etc.
 

Sir Pwn-A-Lot

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Not in SP Beta myself, but it's a great idea. I've seen this feature in Rus XIII mod, and I really liked it.
Such thing will also save a lot of time in situations like a "Holy Quest For Lamellar Armor" and of course add a little bit more uniqueness to faction cities.
Every player should be able to find his factions equipment in his towns, not some random stuff from all over Calradia.
 

Voso

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
CtrlAltDe1337 said:
Its realistic.  After all, how many countries use U.S. weapons?  How much stuff in America has a sticker that says "made in China" ?  People back them traded too.  However, I do think you should be more likely to find faction-specific gear.  For example, about 30-40% of the stuff would be foreign, and the rest native equipment/food/weapons/etc.

Thats modern time.. Back in M&B's timeline, it was VERY uncommon for people to wear another nations armor, or even use another nations weapon. It did happen though, sometimes a crusader would use a Saracen scimitar as they liked the speed or something.. But wearing armor, that almost never happened. Wearing your nations armor types made it so that you were identified by them.. It is like an American soldier wearing Iraq's uniform. It would get you killed in a lot of confusion. It is how they identified friend and foe.


So, I approve of this idea.
 

HTAPAWASO

Master Knight
M&BWB
Wheem said:
Unless Warband is different, this is not what happens. In Mount and Blade the caravans only transfer the average price levels for trade goods (they do not actually move any goods). Armor and weapon merchant's inventory just gets refilled from the town's wealth amount.
I think the other poster's point was that caravans and war parties give reasons for finding Khergit Bows (for example) in Swadian shops.

Personally, I think the best way to handle it would be having percentage-based chances of finding faction items in various shops; ie, you're far more likely to find Vaegir Armor in Rivacheg than you are in Veluca, but it could still appear in both places.

Still, with a release date of March 30 and some features/dialogue not completed yet, I don't think something like this will be a priority for making release. However, it might be nice to implement with some future patch if they get the time/manpower available. Like someone else said, it would also help some modders.

I like this suggestion.

Possible to find faction items anywhere, but much less likely the further you are from where they originated.


Or maybe each shop could always have an unlimited supply of specific items.
The blacksmith in Praven, for example, could always have a bastard sword, haubergeon and flat-topped helmet at all times. The list could be much bigged of course, just an example.

After all, with all those soldiers wearing pretty much identical stuff, you'd think it'd be pretty easy to find.
 

CtrlAltDe1337

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
Voso said:
CtrlAltDe1337 said:
Its realistic.  After all, how many countries use U.S. weapons?  How much stuff in America has a sticker that says "made in China" ?  People back them traded too.  However, I do think you should be more likely to find faction-specific gear.  For example, about 30-40% of the stuff would be foreign, and the rest native equipment/food/weapons/etc.

Thats modern time.. Back in M&B's timeline, it was VERY uncommon for people to wear another nations armor, or even use another nations weapon. It did happen though, sometimes a crusader would use a Saracen scimitar as they liked the speed or something.. But wearing armor, that almost never happened. Wearing your nations armor types made it so that you were identified by them.. It is like an American soldier wearing Iraq's uniform. It would get you killed in a lot of confusion. It is how they identified friend and foe.


So, I approve of this idea.
That's not 100% correct.  Most equipment was very similar to eachother.  Think about a Swadian Habergon and a Nord Mail Shirt.  They are basically the same thing.  Armies in Europe used very similar equipment.  The main determinant on type/amount of armor was climate.  Now to be fair, the Khergit and Sarranid cultures are quite a bit different from the Nords, Swadians, and Rhodoks, but they are in a very small area next to eachother, so its understandable that there would be some trade back and forth.  And the actual armies are outfitted with faction-specific stuff, so what we are talking about is the stuff in shops that the player can buy.  So I don't think it should only be faction specific.  But I do think most of the gear should be.  The foodstuffs could be made more specific as well, btw.  Swadian villagers probably won't be growing much dried fruit.
 

alh_p

Sergeant at Arms
CtrlAltDe1337 said:
That's not 100% correct.  Most equipment was very similar to eachother.  Think about a Swadian Habergon and a Nord Mail Shirt.  They are basically the same thing.  Armies in Europe used very similar equipmentThe main determinant on type/amount of armor was climate.  Now to be fair, the Khergit and Sarranid cultures are quite a bit different from the Nords, Swadians, and Rhodoks, but they are in a very small area next to eachother, so its understandable that there would be some trade back and forth.  And the actual armies are outfitted with faction-specific stuff, so what we are talking about is the stuff in shops that the player can buy.  So I don't think it should only be faction specific.  But I do think most of the gear should be.  The foodstuffs could be made more specific as well, btw.  Swadian villagers probably won't be growing much dried fruit.

I don't think you can make quite such broad statements. Although techniques and technology were broadly the same, there are differences in armour types and weapons accross different regions within europe. Granted, there were greater differences between european equipment and middle eastern, but I think you'd find it hard to argue that climate was the driving factor between these differences. Also, given that most armour was produced artisanaly, there would be enough variations between individaul craftsmen to generate much more localised variaitions even within say, France.

More likely a cause would be the difference in martial skills or material resources, people fight with what they have and in the way that they know best. Hence nomadic steppe people being good light cavalry and English obligatory archery training leading to a tradition of skilled Longbowmen.

I think it would make sense and increase the player's sense of being in a town of a given culture if all/most equipment (and goods) available there were faction specific.
 

CtrlAltDe1337

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
Yes of course there was a lot of variation within a kingdom/nation/etc in real life.  My point is, you could get any given English piece of armor and compare it to a French or Danish piece of armor, and the variation wouldn't be much more than between two English pieces of armor.  And this translates into the game as allowing you to purchase equipment from other factions.  Most of the European themed factions have very similar equipment.  The Sarranids and Khergits have similar gear, and the Vaegirs are sort of  in-between of the eastern and western factions.

The main determinant of what sort of armor your country produced was what sort of climate and geography you had.  So in the east we see more Lamellar armor and composite bows, while in the west there is more emphasis on crossbows and chainmail armor, for example.  But even then, people trade, and it wouldn't be unusual to find some people with foreign-made equipment.  Other things were more cultural and traditional, like the European preference for straight swords.
 

socks

Master Knight
WB
You would not find lamellar armor in France, nor an Arabian sword in Norway :neutral:

I'm liking Wheem's suggestion.
 

Tercero

Sergeant Knight
WBM&B
of course youll see trade, but selling furs/velvet etc in different cities would probably let you earn some money.. but, trying to sell a khergit bow (for example) in a place where noones knows how to use a bow properly (ex Swadia/rhodock cities) wouldnt allow you to sell it.. that's why it doesnt make sense at all having foreign weapons

and anyway, to reinforce the feeling of being in different cities/cultures etc, it would be a nice addition IMO
 

Xoatl_169

Veteran
Yeah Id like to see higher tier Sarranid armor in Sarranid cities so i can more easily outfit myself and my companions with their armor.
 
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