Some constructive criticism

[longbow93]

Jeez, they were taken off to avoid a fight between the strongest clans at start and to have more space for smaller clans, atleast for first rounds. Next time let's just have strongest clans fight at first round, then all others ( rounds ) are pretty much useless but the last because they keep fighting low level clans. Hah!

Annoying.

 

[Black_Corsair]

And what, u think it will be ok, if random will set the match 22nd-IG as a  match of first round in next tournament?
I think no.

This is exactly why I like double elimination. If a match like this (über pro clans  ) comes neither of the clans are eliminated immediatly. Organising the matches so that better clans won't battle until end matches isn't really so fair. This way the better clans will have much easier in winners bracket which isn't really fair.

lets think further. The other match in random variant could be  for example RS-AB. and the loosers of matches 22nd-IG, RS-AB will meet immediattly in  loosers bracket, and one team will leave. While the level of this team could be very high comparing with other matches of first rounds.

Dont think that its fair, and  i m sure this can cause even more conflicts.

 

[Zoltanus]

With randomizing the match ups it will be just bad luck if some clan has to play against good clans in the first rounds. Nothing unusual really.

 

[Astinus]

Personally I agree to the double elimination and the "head of series" in uefa champions league style, the only thing that looks odd is that with the current system a team in the winner bracket can meet in the final match the same team he beated in semifinal. I know that the division in winner and looser bracket is due the lack of clans but still it's quite wrong

Also I suggest to implement Vincenzo's Admin tool (or something who works like that) in every server involved in the competition because it helps a lot in seeing who is messing what in the admin panel

 

[Imnotwhatiam]

I don't think that "picking up the best clans" and avoid them from fighting too early in the tournament it's really fair. If you want to win you have to face them anyway.

But I think that we are missing the most important subject of the topic: avoiding camping tactics.
Many clans wait for flags instead of fighting but no flags doesn't fix the problem by itself.

We need a very efficient way to avoid camping tactics. They must be only a rare happening, not a common solution chosen by any team playing.
In my opinion camping really ruins this game.

 

[longbow93]

Suggestions? Taking off flags is, not only hard for us to do, but basically make the game an infinite camping.
And anyway we can't change rules or it would be bad, as you said in first post

 

[Black_Corsair]

Harle, I dont think he really imagine that i will  do something with flags (in Native tournament? ofc no)...



Its just thoughts and "bright ideas" again about "how can i do this game better"


And by the way on  last matches i saw flags only in 20% of rounds. so i dont know where Imnotwhatiam found such camping clans...

 

[BoPoH]

I don't think that "picking up the best clans" and avoid them from fighting too early in the tournament it's really fair. If you want to win you have to face them anyway.

But I think that we are missing the most important subject of the topic: avoiding camping tactics.
Many clans wait for flags instead of fighting but no flags doesn't fix the problem by itself.

We need a very efficient way to avoid camping tactics. They must be only a rare happening, not a common solution chosen by any team playing.
In my opinion camping really ruins this game.

lol, what's wrong with camping tactics?
It's just one of the way to fight the round, like any other.

 

[Arch3r]

- Although flags are actually AGAINST good gaming, encouraging camping and waiting instead of teamwork and skill, very few people pointed that out. If we want a proLeague to be really pro, emphatizing the best this game can offer (teamwork, coordination, tactics, skill), we should abolish flags.
Thus, it will stop being a race-to-the-safest-camping-spot, and more sophisticate strategies will be encouraged.
Briefly: it's Mount&Blade, not Call of Duty

This is a Native Pro League. Native includes MotF flags.

 

[Imnotwhatiam]

I don't think that "picking up the best clans" and avoid them from fighting too early in the tournament it's really fair. If you want to win you have to face them anyway.

But I think that we are missing the most important subject of the topic: avoiding camping tactics.
Many clans wait for flags instead of fighting but no flags doesn't fix the problem by itself.

We need a very efficient way to avoid camping tactics. They must be only a rare happening, not a common solution chosen by any team playing.
In my opinion camping really ruins this game.

lol, what's wrong with camping tactics?
It's just one of the way to fight the round, like any other.

Camping tactics are possible but, unlike any other tactic, camping is lame and boring in my opinion.

Waiting for flags or camping 'till death is boring and I play this game for fun: I prefer to charge, fight and eventually lose than winning by  waiting ten minutes. It's my opinion and you can disagree, but I have very little time to play and I like to enjoy it all.

Usually clans don't use camping every round, but sometime happened (I didn't see all matches of the pro league, I'm just relying on my personal experience) that a clan camped for 5 rounds in the very same spot. That's boring.

 

[Urist]

Flags enforce melee and the final charge. I don't see the point in removing this mechanism to 'fix' something that only becomes a problem without it. Actually I think TW devs did a pretty good job with the MotF stuff. The 3 randomized spawn spots forces teams to take an intelligent position if they want to have all spots covered and play for MotF. Often splitting up the team is desireable for best flag positioning. This then gives the other team a possibility for a local, compact charge. MotF increases the tactical depth of the game and this is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Black_Corsair]

Flags enforce melee and the final charge. I don't see the point in removing this mechanism to 'fix' something that only becomes a problem without it. Actually I think TW devs did a pretty good job with the MotF stuff. The 3 randomized spawn spots forces teams to take an intelligent position if they want to have all spots covered and play for MotF. Often splitting up the team is desireable for best flag positioning. This then gives the other team a possibility for a local, compact charge. MotF increases the tactical depth of the game and this is a good thing in my opinion.

listen what clever man said.
+1 Urist


2others: How do you imagine camping team, when we have MotF? If it camps on respawn, it will lose because other team wil lbe lcoser to flags when they appear.


If they move closer to flag position - then it isnt camping already.

So motf is a really good things, done by devs VS CAMPING (!). And u offer to delete it to avoid camping - LOL

 

[Garic93]

Methinks, the fact is that clans should not camp!!

 

[longbow93]

Put auto-kill if a player stand still 2 seconds! Yeaaaaaaaa

 

[Mr.X]

On the subject on match ups:
While the idea of moving up the stronger players began with good intentions, cleary it wasn't a very popular idea. My suggestion, which I think would fix the issues brought up with random seeding, is to not use a bracket for the tournament. Instead use a sort of "round robin" where each clan plays every other clan and is awarded points for each victory (maybe even each round). The team with the most points win. I think this is how they did it in NC. The only problem might be the amount of time it takes.

On the subject of camping:
I think we can agree that removing motf won't prevent camping by itself. The only real way I can think of to prevent camping is to have the clans agree, when they sign up, to keep the matches active. Then you would need a ref at each match to make sure there's no camping. Of course, the ref would need to be able to tell the difference between camping and not attacking. Camping would then have penalties like loss of round/map or something

There's my 2 cents anyway

 

[EvgenS]

Then you would need a ref at each match to make sure there's no camping. Of course, the ref would need to be able to tell the difference between camping and not attacking. Camping would then have penalties like loss of round/map or something

I do not think that personal opinion of someone(referee) in such question as "camping" will make game clear. In such case we will need team of referee consist of 3 persons (1 to observe each team and chief referee) which is hardly possible to get for every match. IMO, the MOTF is the best solution for Battle mode.

Another point is why Native pro League uses Battle mode for matches? Probably becouse it is the most popular mode. In the same time Fight and Destroy mode is  much more appropriate for clan wars, IMO. Leagues and trouneys of well known Counter-strike based on similar type of game.
Fight and destroy(FaD) is also 1 life per round(hardcore) as Batlle but the most important that FaD mode has objective which makes clear who defend and who attack from the first minutes of the game. There is no need to wait for something happen.

 

[Garic93]

Put auto-kill if a player stand still 2 seconds! Yeaaaaaaaa

Should we laugh? This wants to be a serious thread, please stop posting things like this.

 

[MaHuD]

Hm, Zeka,  I think it can be intresting, but I don't know whether the objectives are balanced? (In positioning?)
On ruins they seem to be OK, in Ruined Fort well I have yet to see F&D working there (does it now?). I dont know about any other maps.

 

[BoPoH]

Put auto-kill if a player stand still 2 seconds! Yeaaaaaaaa

Should we laugh? This wants to be a serious thread, please stop posting things like this.

You think your post about clans 'should not camp' was serious?

Tell me, what is camping and how you can win round with flags using camping.

 

[EvgenS]

Hm, Zeka,  I think it can be intresting, but I don't know whether the objectives are balanced? (In positioning?)

Balanced maps or not in FaD mode is another story and has to be reviewed ofcourse 1 by 1. Another thing that with current rules both teams will have to play for defending and attacking sides with the same factions and will be in even conditions which makes any match already balanced.