Shouldnt Settlement Icons be incorporated into the core game?

[Senko]

Disagreeing doesn't mean they are fanbois, lol.
What are you? A sith?

 

[black_bulldog]

OP just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a fanboy.

 

[StewVader]

Never said disagreeing with me makes someone a fanboi. In fact, I said feel free to disagree. The people who are fanbois are the ones getting triggered by my opinion and freaking out.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Its probably because of how you phrased your title "Why are Settlement Icons still not in the game?" It makes it sound as if Taleworlds are somehow obligated to follow the Nexus and incorporate your favorite mods that just came out a few weeks ago. It sounds very demanding. Had you phrased it more like a request, then you probably wouldn't have gotten as much pushback on it.

 

[StewVader]

Its probably because of how you phrased your title "Why are Settlement Icons still not in the game?" It makes it sound as if Taleworlds are somehow obligated to follow the Nexus and incorporate your favorite mods that just came out a few weeks ago. It sounds very demanding. Had you phrased it more like a request, then you probably wouldn't have gotten as much pushback on it.

Fair enough.

 

[Kipch@k]

I dont see how it could break your immersion. You have trade rumors right, which is basicly the same thing, is that any different somehow?
What about its implemented in a way they only show up in your vicinity only?
I really like that mod, literaly cannot play without it. Not because of missions because it makes really easy to see what villages produce.

 

[Badcritter]

I dont see how it could break your immersion. You have trade rumors right, which is basicly the same thing, is that any different somehow?
What about its implemented in a way they only show up in your vicinity only?
I really like that mod, literaly cannot play without it. Not because of missions because it makes really easy to see what villages produce.

Trade rumours aren't universally communicated, you have to find them yourself. They also age out in a "soft" way, you still get them when they are obsolete and you aren't sure how accurate they are. They work pretty well on the balancing act between quality of life and immersion.

This mod could be tuned to a similar balancing point, it just hasn't been refined yet (much like the game as a whole). I think the refined version of this mod's functionality should totally be in the base game, and it belongs on the development schedule after hundreds of other issues. That's why it isn't in the game right now.

 

[Kipch@k]

Trade rumours aren't universally communicated, you have to find them yourself. They also age out in a "soft" way, you still get them when they are obsolete and you aren't sure how accurate they are. They work pretty well on the balancing act between quality of life and immersion.

This mod could be tuned to a similar balancing point, it just hasn't been refined yet (much like the game as a whole). I think the refined version of this mod's functionality should totally be in the base game, and it belongs on the development schedule after hundreds of other issues. That's why it isn't in the game right now.

Exactly my point. You can still get a trade rumor from a city you just trade with, you don't have to talk with anyone.
Maybe you can see a icon on a settlement and go check to see if mission is available. Right now if you have bad relations with a village, they still have blue exclamation mark yet they dont give you the quest. Only explanation for this is missons spreads by rumors. So its not immersion breaking.

 

[imgran]

Why isnt it in the game?

That answer is easy, download it and start a new game on e1.4.0.

While it may seem usefull that mod breaks the game in every single update so its a hard pass.

If the devs were working with the mod it wouldn't break every update. Your argument is a good reason FOR implementing it at the developer level.

 

[imgran]

I dont see how it could break your immersion. You have trade rumors right, which is basicly the same thing, is that any different somehow?
What about its implemented in a way they only show up in your vicinity only?
I really like that mod, literaly cannot play without it. Not because of missions because it makes really easy to see what villages produce.

Yep, that's exactly right. You meet people on the road and someone knows that a dude in the next valley over is willing to put money behind getting rid of the local bandit haven. It's as simple as that.

 

[Kipch@k]

Yep, that's exactly right. You meet people on the road and someone knows that a dude in the next valley over is willing to put money behind getting rid of the local bandit haven. It's as simple as that.

Yes, thats pretty much how quest system works in every rpg game, you go to a towns tavern and check the bulletin board. That could be another way.

 

[Botlike]

My guess is that icons ,along many other great mods out there , take longer to implement if you want them to keep working between patches , unlike a modder's work - sometimes... I believe some form of these icons will be added in the official game eventually , alongside features from mods such as detailed character creation , fast dialogue , community patch for working perks , upgrade remote companions , armories for t6 gear ( unless they make them decently acquirable ) , party manager ( for upgrade all units / recruit all available prisoners with 1 button ) etc.

Till then , mods it is.

I am happy either way , i am just not playing beta since 1.4 and mods are not an issue.
Praise TW and the lovely mod community!
If this way creative assembly , they would ban half the mods out there , for ruining their dlc purchases and modders would be forced to work on a middle earth mod using Europe's map xD

 

[Badcritter]

Exactly my point. You can still get a trade rumor from a city you just trade with

But you don't have perfect information. You get SOME trade rumours, and they are limited to touch points that feel plausible. That's good - trade would be dead boring if you didn't need to do some of the work to find arbitrage opportunities. And it would be obnoxious if you just had to buy and pray because you had no price tracking tools at all.

Perfect information is something people often wish for, but it makes most systems less interesting. The current lack of communication of quest rumours in the game is obnoxious, but getting perfect information would swing too far the other way. The mod is there for people who prefer to sit on the other side of the pendulum's swing. At some point either the base game or the mod will find the Goldilocks point.

 

[Kipch@k]

But you don't have perfect information. You get SOME trade rumours, and they are limited to touch points that feel plausible. That's good - trade would be dead boring if you didn't need to do some of the work to find arbitrage opportunities. And it would be obnoxious if you just had to buy and pray because you had no price tracking tools at all.

Perfect information is something people often wish for, but it makes most systems less interesting. The current lack of communication of quest rumours in the game is obnoxious, but getting perfect information would swing too far the other way. The mod is there for people who prefer to sit on the other side of the pendulum's swing. At some point either the base game or the mod will find the Goldilocks point.

Yeah i see your point but it's not exacly the same thing as trade rumors isn't it. I just give that as an example. I mean if a village has a family feud it should be a widely known thing around isn't it? atleast it is in real life. Or village notables daughter was being kidnapped could also something everybody heard about. Like how could you hide something like that. Maybe spy party misson can be something you dont post on a bulletin board but if you have good relations with the lord of a town i'm sure you have a way to hear that rumor.

 

[Kea Black]

Some people may see it as a downside that the mod tells them whether or not a quest is available at a settlement without visiting it (immersion break).

There is a balancing act between quality of life enhancements and suspension of disbelief. Where to draw the line isn't necessarily the same for every player.

I agree that parts of this mod are slam dunk inclusions (eg. tournament location notifications - these would be well publicised and known, so should be visible), but not every aspect of it is the experience every player is looking for. Weighing things like that up, and comparing them to the scores of other great mods out there, are reasons why mods with good ideas don't get snapped up and integrated immediately (on top of the technical and administrative overhead of committing to the long term support of the mod's features).

as of now you can open the encyclopedia and know the approximative location of every npc in the word, if you are near a settlement you can know exactly how much people live there (the herts, I assume was population, maybe is prosperity) and how well it is defendend, and so on

I don't see why icons will be more immersion breaking than those examples

you can always assume that somehow the player had listened to some rumor, they can also make it so icons will update only after entering a settlement to simulate that you got new rumors (like it seems to happen with npc positions)

 

[Koshkasa]

But you don't have perfect information. You get SOME trade rumours, and they are limited to touch points that feel plausible. That's good - trade would be dead boring if you didn't need to do some of the work to find arbitrage opportunities. And it would be obnoxious if you just had to buy and pray because you had no price tracking tools at all.

Perfect information is something people often wish for, but it makes most systems less interesting. The current lack of communication of quest rumours in the game is obnoxious, but getting perfect information would swing too far the other way. The mod is there for people who prefer to sit on the other side of the pendulum's swing. At some point either the base game or the mod will find the Goldilocks point.

A drink to you, sir or madam. Talking coffee, of course.

The mod OP mentions is useful, but provides a bit too much information, perhaps moreso than the game intends to make avaliable. While a tournament is referenced in the game world as "the big thing" (talk to arena master for info on that), the fact that you only get to hear about it when you're already touching the arena door with your nose is a bit strange. Surely people would be talking a lot. The game then breaks that element of immersion itself by having tournaments in like 1/3 of cities of the world at any given moment, but that's a whole different topic.

Knowing that some landowner in a rural area wants to train 10 peasants into trained peasants is a bit too much, though.

I'd love to refer to another wonderful game called Star Traders: Frontiers in an attempt to balance settlement icons.

There you have several passive ways of gathering "Rumors" - information about where some map event is taking place at the moment. You're never just given a location where there's a shortage the instant it happens - instead, you have your crew tap into communications or chat with locals and generate random entries regarding such temporary map events in your log. You never directly control what information you get, but it keeps flowing.

Then, and only then, they become visible on the map from any distance. Otherwise, you need to be in the exact spot where the event is happening to know about it.

It is a non-immersion breaking way of providing the player tips regarding possible activities for him to partake in.

So if the icons were limited to only appear after someone in-game actually tells you about it (your party is resting in a city => you learn about issues in surrounding areas, you converse with a lord or caravan =>they tell you about a tournament, etc.), they would be a welcome addition. The way the mod implements them, however, is revealing too much information to remain immersive. I had Settlement Icons installed, and had to disable it for that exact reason.

Keep in mind that I merely present a personal opinion.

 

[Kipch@k]

A drink to you, sir or madam. Talking coffee, of course.

The mod OP mentions is useful, but provides a bit too much information, perhaps moreso than the game intends to make avaliable. While a tournament is referenced in the game world as "the big thing" (talk to arena master for info on that), the fact that you only get to hear about it when you're already touching the arena door with your nose is a bit strange. Surely people would be talking a lot. The game then breaks that element of immersion itself by having tournaments in like 1/3 of cities of the world at any given moment, but that's a whole different topic.
.......
Keep in mind that I merely present a personal opinion.

Also concider the fact that you have a scout. Which knows where a lords party is from a day away distance with information about, how many troops, prisoners even wounded he has. He/she gathering these rumors also a viable reason to see them.

 

[Koshkasa]

Also concider the fact that you have a scout. Which knows where a lords party is from a day away distance with information about, how many troops, prisoners even wounded he has. He/she gathering these rumors also a viable reason to see them.

Yeah, I just listed a few examples. Your addition is reasonable regardless, of course.

In my mind Scouting is a skill of managing army scouts, not of being the single person in the entire army who has eyes, so the better you are at Scouting, the more your scouts would be organised, the more they'll keep their ears open for village rumors while passing near them, and the better they will work towith make sure this information reaches the ears of the army commander.

 

[Kipch@k]

Yeah, I just listed a few examples. Your addition is reasonable regardless, of course.

In my mind Scouting is a skill of managing army scouts, not of being the single person in the entire army who has eyes, so the better you are at Scouting, the more your scouts would be organised, the more they'll keep their ears open for village rumors while passing near them, and the better they will work towith make sure this information reaches the ears of the army commander.

Thats the whole point. Game crates a world with mathematics based calculations and we are acting as they are real life scenarios. I was arguing about settlements having icons about missions you can have isn't really breaking my immersion instead it improves it. If i was in that situation and looking for a way to improve my relations with a village (or make some money) i would tell my scouts to gather rumors. I would also make a map along the way and mark the villages of the type of troops i can hire or type of production they make. Simple as that.

 

[CryoNomad]

It's a nice mod with some great quality of life features. I get the nay-sayers that hate to ruin their immersion. In that case, a simple toggle button under options would make everyone happy.

CK2 did with game rules. More games should find compromises that please everyone and let's all play the way they want to.