Problems with Skirmish Mode as of May 2021

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๖Kern

Grandmaster Knight
WBNW
The cavalry bounces as a whole need to be reworked. Oftentimes, you charge at someone at almost full speed and all that happens is, that the charged player slides by the side of your horse. Make "small" bumps easier while making the cavalry more easily punishable for staying in fights. Currently, cavalry is almost entirely restricted to hit-and-run playstyle and has to rely on people having their backs open for a hit. It is also very hard for the cavalry to push or just contest archers since hitting from horseback is much clumsier than in Warband and shields are smaller. While I do think that cavalry is still strong and should stay a supportive role, all these things make cavalry less fun to play and should be somehow reworked.

Throwing spears need to be nerfed, removing javelins from the skirmisher for picking a throwing spear is hardly a nerf to the weapon itself. It will still be dropped, still be used, and still be nuking anyone and everyone who gets hit. You are not going to nerf the weapon by slightly nerfing the class, if anything, it is the other way around.

Also, whose idea was it to make 2+v1 almost impossible to execute? Doesn't matter whether you have a shield or not, once you are fighting against somewhat skilled players, you are doomed to die, unless they make a very, very obvious mistake.

https://www.twitch.tv/arni_armg_rs/clip/PlumpSarcasticTildeTF2John-DPqbmDJtMN_Okabw - in this clip, Arni can block however he wants and do whatever he wants, but he cannot return a single swing. There's no difference in movement speed, just player numbers. I have a hard time deciding what is the cause of this. Swing speeds? Animations? No option to use footwork to your advantage?
 

hoonii

Squire
We are making spear thrusts deal damage earlier, to enable infantry that is up close to a horse, to damage it. Also it will make it so that if you do a very late stab on a fast moving horse, with will do damage and not just do an animation bounce, cause it wasnt inside the damage window yet.
I have a weird feeling that this spear change won't do anything to stop cav but it will make it more cancerous for inf v inf situations...
Imo way of nerfing cav is not buffing the means of stopping it, just nerf the cav itself by making less and less maneuverable.
 
I have a weird feeling that this spear change won't do anything to stop cav but it will make it more cancerous for inf v inf situations...
Imo way of nerfing cav is not buffing the means of stopping it, just nerf the cav itself by making less and less maneuverable.
Why not just take away cav Spears and give them all a mace and change all horses hp to 1? Sounds fair because I explode with rage when I get couched by a lance.
 
I would imagine that only a small percentage of thrown pilas result in a oneshot. Can Taleworlds track this?
In a CW where I spawn like 36 Pilas I dont remember getting more than 3-6 pila kills tbh
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
I have a weird feeling that this spear change won't do anything to stop cav but it will make it more cancerous for inf v inf situations...
Imo way of nerfing cav is not buffing the means of stopping it, just nerf the cav itself by making less and less maneuverable.
ive played a few like 10 hours in the last 6 months but if u think cav needs the maneuverability turned down you're stoned af,
buffing spears so they can see play (not only as a proper anti cav weapon but also in infantry fights) is by far the best way nerf to cavs ((Outside of 2x w/s and couching forever!!)). At the same time that will also make the game way more fun to play and increase the skillceiling.
Once the cav counters actually counter cav you'll be quick to realize how much of a glasscanon and weak cav actually is
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
I would imagine that only a small percentage of thrown pilas result in a oneshot. Can Taleworlds track this?
In a CW where I spawn like 36 Pilas I dont remember getting more than 3-6 pila kills tbh
Dont forget all these poor horsies who got unicorned
 

hoonii

Squire
ive played a few like 10 hours in the last 6 months but if u think cav needs the maneuverability turned down you're stoned af,
buffing spears so they can see play (not only as a proper anti cav weapon but also in infantry fights) is by far the best way nerf to cavs ((Outside of 2x w/s and couching forever!!)). At the same time that will also make the game way more fun to play and increase the skillceiling.
Once the cav counters actually counter cav you'll be quick to realize how much of a glasscanon and weak cav actually is
lmao ok
pls have an experience in the current meta and then form opinions yes?
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
lmao ok
pls have an experience in the current meta and then form opinions yes?
I played draft cup on sunday with 84 hours on record against people with way more experience and hours and considering that gap kinda owned. If this doesn't show you how unpunished this class is right now i dont know what will.
 

Zoonanay

Knight
  • Reduced turn speed for infantry (while attacking)

While all these changes look great, I'd be cautious about adding a turn-cap to just attack animations.

Holdfast is a great example, the melee turn-cap is massive, but there is no turncap when blending to a block or not attacking. This encourages players to spin on very high DPI on a default animation/blocking animation, before going into an attack animation, the feint is very effective but if you're going for grounded melee that's relatively readable, this is far from it.

While countering this is easier on Bannerlord (due to faster attacks and thus faster interupts to these disorientating feints) I fear you may end up with even greater turn-cap abuse than before if it's only limited to the "commited" attack animation.

Not sure if this is the case, but Warband felt like it had a universal turn cap for the most part. You were limited in turning speed both while attacking, blocking or standing. It was just enough with the movement speed to allow someone to get outmanouevered, and kept most of the turning abuse to a minimum, whilst also giving a relatively "realistic" feel to the turning speed of the character.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
Warband turncap was a great middleground in that it limited character rotations but did not limit the camera itself, and your character caught up to the camera if you turned too far.

Early BL had a turncap but didn't do this I believe, and it didn't feel great.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
lmao ok
pls have an experience in the current meta and then form opinions yes?
after now talking to some alot more experienced cav players from the competetive scene i stand uncorrected as expected
I wonder why so many people have a different opinion on a matter which shouldn't allow that - joke ofc I know why
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
The problem isn't manoeuvrability at all speeds, it's that the manoeuvrability doesn't change depending on speed, it seems to basically stay the same regardless. So at low speeds, when you would expect to be able to turn more reliably and quickly, it feels sluggish and difficult, whereas at top speeds, you can move basically diagonally at absurd speeds across the map and drift around corners.

So manoeuvrability needs toned down at top speeds (which in my mind, is still one of the worst looking things in the game) but increased at slower speeds, and in general more of a gradient to the acceleration. This is basically how it worked in Warband which I'm sure is what you're comparing to when you play.
 

Rangah

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
The problem isn't manoeuvrability at all speeds, it's that the manoeuvrability doesn't change depending on speed, it seems to basically stay the same regardless. So at low speeds, when you would expect to be able to turn more reliably and quickly, it feels sluggish and difficult, whereas at top speeds, you can move basically diagonally at absurd speeds across the map and drift around corners.
This isn't correct, at top speeds maneuverability is noticeably decreased, while being better at lower speeds. It's hard to say where you got this impression from.
 
The cavalry bounces as a whole need to be reworked. Oftentimes, you charge at someone at almost full speed and all that happens is, that the charged player slides by the side of your horse. Make "small" bumps easier while making the cavalry more easily punishable for staying in fights. Currently, cavalry is almost entirely restricted to hit-and-run playstyle and has to rely on people having their backs open for a hit. It is also very hard for the cavalry to push or just contest archers since hitting from horseback is much clumsier than in Warband and shields are smaller. While I do think that cavalry is still strong and should stay a supportive role, all these things make cavalry less fun to play and should be somehow reworked.

Throwing spears need to be nerfed, removing javelins from the skirmisher for picking a throwing spear is hardly a nerf to the weapon itself. It will still be dropped, still be used, and still be nuking anyone and everyone who gets hit. You are not going to nerf the weapon by slightly nerfing the class, if anything, it is the other way around.

Also, whose idea was it to make 2+v1 almost impossible to execute? Doesn't matter whether you have a shield or not, once you are fighting against somewhat skilled players, you are doomed to die, unless they make a very, very obvious mistake.

https://www.twitch.tv/arni_armg_rs/clip/PlumpSarcasticTildeTF2John-DPqbmDJtMN_Okabw - in this clip, Arni can block however he wants and do whatever he wants, but he cannot return a single swing. There's no difference in movement speed, just player numbers. I have a hard time deciding what is the cause of this. Swing speeds? Animations? No option to use footwork to your advantage?

Playing cav is by far the easiest class in public skirmish. If you think the role of cav was to stay in static melee fights you are just a very bad cav player. When your bumps dont hit you are a just a very bad cav player. Why on earth should bumps hit ppl you didnt even override? When you charge straight to an aiming archer it's a gamble. What do you want? A kill guarantee? If the archer hit's you it's his skill defeating you. Btw. i find aiming at riders behind these enormous horse-head hitboxes much harder than any cav play. But i admit im a bad archer.

2vs1 situations are doable, it happens all the time. Ofc it's a matter of skill. And yes, when two skilled opponents dont do mistakes you wont have a chance alone vs them. That's their skill beeing rewarded. Again: What do you expect? An extra buff fo ppl yolo charging into groups of enemies?
 

๖Kern

Grandmaster Knight
WBNW
Playing cav is by far the easiest class in public skirmish. If you think the role of cav was to stay in static melee fights you are just a very bad cav player. When your bumps dont hit you are a just a very bad cav player. Why on earth should bumps hit ppl you didnt even override? When you charge straight to an aiming archer it's a gamble. What do you want? A kill guarantee? If the archer hit's you it's his skill defeating you. Btw. i find aiming at riders behind these enormous horse-head hitboxes much harder than any cav play. But i admit im a bad archer.

2vs1 situations are doable, it happens all the time. Ofc it's a matter of skill. And yes, when two skilled opponents dont do mistakes you wont have a chance alone vs them. That's their skill beeing rewarded. Again: What do you expect? An extra buff fo ppl yolo charging into groups of enemies?

Public skirmish was exactly the last thing I was talking about. Why the hell are you mentioning things I have not even said? No, the role of cavalry has never been to stay in fights, not even in Warband, but you could join the fight and actually help for a few seconds - this is mostly impossible in Bannerlord - you'll get instantly focused down and you won't even hit anyone unless the person has his back turned towards you. Additionally, you are super clumsy and your horse pushes both your allies and enemies away, but doesn't bump either of them, making you more of an obstacle than a teammate in fight. If you are such a great player, I'd like to see your consistent bumps on players, I think I'd have a nice laugh after such a showcase. Again, no one talked about straight-up charging archer or about the "kill guarantee" you mention. The fact is, that cavalry in competitive play is reliant on a hit-running playstyle, all you do is backstab people because you can't really do anything else. Cavalry in Bannerlord is a meme compared to Warband's cavalry, so I don't see where all the outcry for cavalry nerf is coming from. Yes, couches should be nerfed, spears should be buffed, but that's it.

2v1 are doable, but all you need are 2 mediocre players to easily dominate 1 top tier player, there's no real contest - you are dead, unless they make obvious mistake. In Warband? In Warband you could actually fight 2v1 with a good chance of clutching such a fight, clutches in Bannerlord are much, much harder. Out of the few matches I played in Bannerlord, meta is just to double or triple down on someone and smash him to death or to chase some lonely players before their team can help. 1v1s are still a thing, but this just shows how much harder it is to play against multiple players in BL.
 
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So if you are not talking about skirmish you should better mention what mode you refer too ... because i have honestly no clue where you got your ideas from.

I never said I'd do consistent bumps. You try to twist my words here. Bumping is a skill that has to be learned if you want to play top tier cav. If you cant do it than it's your lack of skill, not some mechanic beeing wrong. There are douzens of cav players who can do this.

And tbh: You dont need to be able to do consistent bumbs to play cav successfully in 8 out of 10 skirmish matches. That was my original point. Playing cav decently requires very little skill compared to playing inf or archer.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
cav is a pubstomper and will always be, public skirmish is probably filled with very, very bad players so you can run around kill everyone. It's a learn to play issue of new players. the fact that it's counter is too weak to actually counter cavalries just adds on top.
using public skirmish matches for any kind of balancing is a wank idea lol
 

Golodir

Banned
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
@NIN3 can you do something about the following weapons being used on horseback?
Khuzait Throwing Spear
Ash Throwing Spear
Pilum

I don't really understand why you wouldn't delete these nuclear weapons in the first place, but okay, fine. If you think it's how infantry should deal with the cav instead of spears, let it be, but why the weapon that is countering cav is avaliable to use on horseback? currently any cav can take these nuclear weapons from ally inf and one shot cav/horse/shooter while it requires no skill whatsoever. because you can't aim with it properly on horseback, unless you stand still, so you just go as close as possible and hope for the best and there's like 90% chance that you hit the target if you extremely close to it. it makes no sense that already most op class in the game that has access to one nuclear weapon aka couch, has access to another nuclear weapon, this time ranged one, which doesn't require any skill to USE, even with ****ing couch you actually need to aim it and not hopin for the random.
 
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