Persistent World 4.5.1 - download and general discussion

[Splintert]

I agree with hoods that hide your name, it brings out an element of surprise and the ability to maintain a bit of stealth (until you die).

I also think artifex is the first person to be outwitted by Vornne besides myself.

 

[Vakri]

Also, I think the non-combat classes, such as doctor, engineer, sailor, serf, should have training stations for commoners in a neutral spot, like a little village.

who says the are non-combat? (except from serf of course, and medic) i do figting also as an engeneer. But its true, they should have stations for commoners.

and also, as i realy like sailing in this mod, i have some suggestions

1.right now, if ships are sunk/gliched somewhere there is no posibility to get them back, only a reset. It would be much easier if there was a place where engeneers would build new ones
2.carts have a posibility (it doesn't work, unfortunately) to stock particle items there. Ships should also have cargo, where you could stock some items
3.big ships are hard to steer by one person, and many sailors (like me) are loners. so why dont you make boats for max. 2 or 3 people, where there would be only few steps from mast to rudder?

thats all, generally great mod, thanks for it.

 

[Vornne]

Also, I think the non-combat classes, such as doctor, engineer, sailor, serf, should have training stations for commoners in a neutral spot, like a little village.

who says the are non-combat? (except from serf of course, and medic) i do figting also as an engeneer. But its true, they should have stations for commoners.

A lot of people seem to mistake what commoners are: they aren't a default "peaceful" or "good" faction (a lord could choose to make his faction that), they are simply a random collection of all the poor, insignificant, and unskilled peasants; to get training for highly skilled jobs like engineering or doctoring, you would need to swear allegiance to someone to have protection, since you would then be more important, working with more valuable things. Some people seem to want to transfer modern concepts into the game, like a having peace by default (what's the point of that in a fighting game?), with everyone getting an equal chance to be whatever they want, without having to "play the game" for it: that is not how it worked in medieval times, if you wanted to be the best, you really had to compete for it. However, scene makers can make the commoners a powerful faction if they want, but it's not intended.

3.big ships are hard to steer by one person, and many sailors (like me) are loners. so why dont you make boats for max. 2 or 3 people, where there would be only few steps from mast to rudder?

1 and 2 have been answered many times already, and I'm not intending to add small personal boats for the moment, since ships take up a lot of server resources; I want to be able to add other features first, without everything slowing to a crawl. The mod is focused on working with and affecting other players, not playing by yourself.

 

[Phoenix234]

vorne can you add the option to add neutrals? or a extra faction that cant capture land etc?
unless you make a way for a none faction to remove a faction from the game is boring waiting for everyone in a faction to leave so we can actually run something

 

[The Bowman]

vorne can you add the option to add neutrals? or a extra faction that cant capture land etc?
unless you make a way for a none faction to remove a faction from the game is boring waiting for everyone in a faction to leave so we can actually run something

You got commoners. Can they take castles ? No.

 

[Phoenix234]

vorne can you add the option to add neutrals? or a extra faction that cant capture land etc?
unless you make a way for a none faction to remove a faction from the game is boring waiting for everyone in a faction to leave so we can actually run something

You got commoners. Can they take castles ? No.

ever heard of the french revolution?

forcing me to be a commoner when i want to be a knight is no fun. i shouldnt have to join a faction so i can take it over

 

[Eragon91]

Phoenix. What you're saying is pretty much that commoners should be a faction that people could declare war on...

do you have any idea how messya that would become?

 

[TheWaylit]

Some people seem to want to transfer modern concepts into the game, like a having peace by default (what's the point of that in a fighting game?), with everyone getting an equal chance to be whatever they want, without having to "play the game" for it: that is not how it worked in medieval times, if you wanted to be the best, you really had to compete for it. However, scene makers can make the commoners a powerful faction if they want, but it's not intended.

Vornne, let me tell you how glad I am that the maker of this mod actually GETS IT.  The amount of people who complain that violence isn't "proper roleplay" are getting out of hand.  I had a guy point his bow at my head and draw while I was the Lord, and IN MY OWN CASTLE, and had just commanded him to leave my sight.  So as soon as he twitched that arrow into his hand, one of my trusty men-at-arms put an Xbow bolt in his head.  And he comes back over World Chat saying, "Weeh wehh it was just a joke, I didn't mean it, you killed me randomly for nothing!"  He complained for 20 minutes while I patiently explained to him what Roleplay is.

As a laid-back Californian, I would expect that most of you Euros would actually COMPREHEND YOUR OWN HISTORY.  You know what happened to the medieval commoner "roleplaying" insanity?  Institutions for the insane didn't exist until the Enlightenment period, and even then they were hellholes.  So all those people who "roleplay" a crazy person should probably expect to be thrown into a dungeon, tortured, and killed.  Not "played with."

 

[Phoenix234]

Phoenix. What you're saying is pretty much that commoners should be a faction that people could declare war on...

do you have any idea how messya that would become?

im saying that factions should be removable.
since 4 factions is a very small limit compared to what we could have in 3.5. if you have a army of 20 commoners who want to create a faction, but theres a 3 man faction who know this and refuse to let you near the castles join faction zones so you can vote a new leader then your screwed. even though you have more support your stuck.

commoners need a way to overthrow a weak and useless faction. most knights would belong to a faction yes, but sellswords when moving to a new area wouldnt, dukes and lords go through so many levels of society that some would only seem to be a rich peasant in comparison to others.

we have 4 factions. usually 1 gets taken over by the huge usually rcc or other group, 1 smaller faction of 1/2 the firsts quantity and then the last 2 are usually tiny groups of friends clogging up the slot or an excuse to random group such as pirates or searaiders.

what im asking for is a peasant revolt item that when used on the castle roof removes that faction from the castle and replaces them with the revolting group, make it cost alot so its not often used so this way that 20 can remove the 3 from the castle and take over and due to the price of the item they would need to be at least a minor lord to get the cash needed anyway

 

[Arch]

If there really were 20 people wanting to over throw 3 there is a simple way to defeat them. Go mercenary. It'll cost a lot more money but you can over through them that way. Just make sure one person has enough money to start the poll then make sure that you have enough people with 500 denari to join and overthrow them.

EDIT: I'm just saying. Having a peasant revolution thing would be kind of cool.

 

[Nick_Mac]

Hi, guys! How about making this mod with the models from With Fire And Sword. It is played many Poles, Russian, Ukrainian - they would have been very pleased to fight in the national armor and with national weapon. If necessary, I will send you an archive with all the armor and weapons - you can use them freely, just pointing out what they are from WFNS.

 

[Phoenix234]

If there really were 20 people wanting to over throw 3 there is a simple way to defeat them. Go mercenary. It'll cost a lot more money but you can over through them that way. Just make sure one person has enough money to start the poll then make sure that you have enough people with 500 denari to join and overthrow them.

EDIT: I'm just saying. Having a peasant revolution thing would be kind of cool.

didnt know there was a merc
can mercs capture a castle and replace a faction though?

 

[Nova123]

Played the MOD for the first time today and found it very annoying. The concept is great and i appreciate the effort you put into making this but it's not obvious for beginners what to do. I assumed other commoners would be friendly only to be killed by them several times. Random factions are just roaming around different parts of the map and seem eager to kill and commoner that looks at them funny. It's probably me just being a noob but I just found it really frustrating especially when it is so difficult to comunicate since you have to look at the log (leaving yourself vulnerable) just to see whether someone has said that they want to kill you or not.

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

Played the MOD for the first time today and found it very annoying. The concept is great and i appreciate the effort you put into making this but it's not obvious for beginners what to do. I assumed other commoners would be friendly only to be killed by them several times. Random factions are just roaming around different parts of the map and seem eager to kill and commoner that looks at them funny. It's probably me just being a noob but I just found it really frustrating especially when it is so difficult to comunicate since you have to look at the log (leaving yourself vulnerable) just to see whether someone has said that they want to kill you or not.

While it is frustrating, its best to hang around wherever you spawn and observe other commoners.

 

[Arch]

If there really were 20 people wanting to over throw 3 there is a simple way to defeat them. Go mercenary. It'll cost a lot more money but you can over through them that way. Just make sure one person has enough money to start the poll then make sure that you have enough people with 500 denari to join and overthrow them.

EDIT: I'm just saying. Having a peasant revolution thing would be kind of cool.

didnt know there was a merc
can mercs capture a castle and replace a faction though?

Yeah. That's what they were made to do.

Every faction has a mercenary outpost somewhere nearby their castle.
Spawn City has a merc outpost for Red Castle.
The building outside Green Castle has Green Castle's merc outpost.
The Windmill has Blue's merc outpost.
There is an area by the church for the White Castle's merc outpost.

Each outpost has a banner beside the training zone. There are no weapons available there though.

 

[Vakri]

Played the MOD for the first time today and found it very annoying. The concept is great and i appreciate the effort you put into making this but it's not obvious for beginners what to do. I assumed other commoners would be friendly only to be killed by them several times. Random factions are just roaming around different parts of the map and seem eager to kill and commoner that looks at them funny. It's probably me just being a noob but I just found it really frustrating especially when it is so difficult to comunicate since you have to look at the log (leaving yourself vulnerable) just to see whether someone has said that they want to kill you or not.

become sailor and mine ore

as for the commoner revolt- why dont you script, that if lord dies  he drops some item- for example a ring or crown? if you use this ring/crown/anything somewhere in the castle, you become lord of this faction.
It would work in this way:

1.Revolutionists pick some random class(or just go with axes and mining picks ) and attack fraction.
2.They kill lord and take ring/crown
3.Leader use it to become lord
4.Revolt join faction
5.Everyone not welcome there are kicked from faction.

It would be good also because lord before leaving game would have posiblity to choose heir to the throne.

and one more thing- do outlaws have posibility to sneak and crouch? I think for them its basic

 

[Vornne]

"Mercenary" was probably a bad name for them, since it only works when you want to resurrect a dormant faction (one that has no castles). It doesn't work when the faction owns a castle - so that factions can guard their castle to choose who joins up, without having the enemy train one of their faction so they can open the doors and let the attackers in, or whatever. So it's not what you want for taking over an active faction: only for restarting an inactive one.

The reason I didn't add "neutral" combat classes is because players will tend towards going solo and not wanting to have to work to get upgraded troops, and I think making them work in teams will be more enjoyable, if they have a reason to do it. Castles being the place to train a skilled soldier makes the game more life like, and gives purpose to taking and holding castles - if anyone can just waltz into the game and be whatever they want right away, there seems to be no point to anything except wandering around talking or playing team deathmatch; castles and resources are mostly reduced to pointless eye candy. So the overall idea of PW 4 includes roleplaying, but discourages (at the game mechanics level, server hosters can make rules to the contrary) "roleplaying" where you can basically just ignore most game mechanics (I call it "acting"), starting out as the all powerful queen of sheba or something equally impressive, playing according to a preset script which you made up outside the game, which other players can't really affect: since you are using made up rules instead of the features of the game - the ones that allow other players to interfere or compete with your RP. So you can still role play the queen of sheba in PW, but first you have to organise a lot of other players to take castles and resources by war or diplomacy, to be able to get suitable stats, equipment, and recognition.

I will try think up ways to help make taking over a small faction as a large group of peasants easier; I don't see how your peasant revolt on the castle roof would help, though - if you are able to get onto the roof, you should be able to train at the stations, taking over the faction from the inside.

Hi, guys! How about making this mod with the models from With Fire And Sword. It is played many Poles, Russian, Ukrainian - they would have been very pleased to fight in the national armor and with national weapon. If necessary, I will send you an archive with all the armor and weapons - you can use them freely, just pointing out what they are from WFNS.

I'm not very interested in changing the setting of the mod, since I am primarily a coder, not an artist; I want to use troops and items that are similar to native, to try keep the same balance that was fine tuned in the beta, but creating a different type of game mode. Some time in the future, after I have implemented most of the main features on my list (or when I lose interest in the mod), the PW 4 module system will be released to the public for other teams to change the setting - or add the features that I don't want - to an additional derived mod.

as for the commoner revolt- why dont you script, that if lord dies  he drops some item- for example a ring or crown? if you use this ring/crown/anything somewhere in the castle, you become lord of this faction.

I don't think that's a good idea - lords were never made by finding a crown somewhere (outside of fairy tales); to become a lord you should have to lead a group of people, gain their trust and support, then work for and with them to keep your status.

 

[Vakri]

I don't think that's a good idea - lords were never made by finding a crown somewhere (outside of fairy tales); to become a lord you should have to lead a group of people, gain their trust and support, then work for and with them to keep your status.

well, thats what you call fairy tales- lords usually became lords because... their ancestors were lords, thats how it worked and thats what revolts usually were against (and thats what usually was after revolts too )

if lord dies his "son" should be close to become new lord. That would be RP.

 

[Vornne]

But if the son was a weak or ineffective leader, the stronger followers would get rid of them and put a strong leader in their place. PW is about a small area of countryside, with the castles, towns, and lords in that area; politics at the "nation" scale are not taken into account, so it's pretty much just the strongest man becomes lord, without having weak lords being propped up by the distant king of the land, or whatever. Though if you want to be a powerful lord in PW, propping up some clown who found a crown, be my guest .

 

[pelleif]

Do u every now and then think the admins are partial. I got freezed for something out of the blue becouse i refused access to my castle to a friend of admins... he had previously killed my men, and was a loose cannon to say the least, so i think it was quite fair to shut him out. The admin said that he could not be punished for something he did before he died becouse he became a totally new rp person. But HEY it is the same nut behind the keyboard, and he did it several times...

To finish i meet at great and fair admin the same day keep up the good work.