ON HOLD - Pike & Blade Merged v3.3.2 (Needs to be updated to 1.143/DP 4.1)

[imgran]

Curse my cursed stinking work ethic...  Ought to have known I couldn't leave it at that...

got the Swadians redone. 

OK folks, if I'm going to have to completely rebrand the entire troop tree to make it work with Native Mod Compilation, then that's exactly what I'll do.  This is going to only be Pike and Blade in name when I'm done but it's going to carry forward the same initial concepts of the mod -- strengthening infantry, nerfing cavalry.

So what I did with the Swdians is merge the two infantry chains.  Swadian Halberdiers no longer exist and Pikemen merge back into the Footman line after T3.  Instead the Swadian Footmen have sword, mace, shield and spear.  I kept the Swadian Pikemen up to T3 because I only built the Swadian Footman and Militia Footman with spears, not pikes.

  Since NMC has PBOD merged with it, ordering them to use the appropriate weapon (spear against cavalry, sword/mace and shield against infantry) should be a non-problem.  So I didn't think a specialist unit was necessary.  I left the pikemen in because someone might disagree with me lol.

I'm going to merge other semiredundant infantry chains as I find them as well and count on PBOD to allow people the versatility they want.

Compared to Swadians, Rhodoks will have heavier crossbows, and will use halberds to give their spearman line more offensive oomph, considering that it's the central focus of their build they'd better be really good at it after all.  There will be also Rhodok Skirmishers and other infantry options, but they won't look quite the same, since I'll be using roughly the same unit chain but with my choice of equipment.  I'm also not going to get too fussed if Rhodok and Swadian units look alike.  In fact I'm going to highlight the similarities if I can do it without sacrificing the essential differences.

Also the Man at Arms upgrades directly into the Swadian Knight again.  The Sarranid Horsemen will do the same with the Cataphract.  I never bought the logic of doing it the other way.  Always seemed to me that that was done just for the sake of doing it.

 

[Thorberg]

I'm sorry you've had so little overt interest but I'm really impressed by what you're trying to do here, if that's any help. I've just not been around much (or played M&B/WB at all) since I got Shogun2 because that's eating up what little free time I have.

One thing I'm particularly curious about is whether you're combining the infantry chains with a view to expanding the troop trees (in terms of functionality if not numbers) or purely to streamline them so as to make use of the added features in PBOD?

 

[Kogara]

since I got Shogun2 because that's eating up what little free time I have.

Yeah, I still haven't kicked the drug that is Shogun 2....>.>

 

[imgran]

I'm sorry you've had so little overt interest but I'm really impressed by what you're trying to do here, if that's any help. I've just not been around much (or played M&B/WB at all) since I got Shogun2 because that's eating up what little free time I have.

One thing I'm particularly curious about is whether you're combining the infantry chains with a view to expanding the troop trees (in terms of functionality if not numbers) or purely to streamline them so as to make use of the added features in PBOD?

Troops as I design them will be more uniform, and will be equipped with an eye towards both aesthetics and versatility of function.  Soldiers will be equipped both with reach weapons and with shield-onehander combinations.  I'm planning to take advantage of PBOD's weapon switching orders and outfit soldiers with a much deeper arsenal of weapons like one would for real professional armies, with the quality of the weapons themselves (rather than variety) being what gets better as you level them.  There will also be a lot more blunt weapons scattered among the soldiers in my troop trees, though Manhunters will still be the only blunt-only troops.

What I have in mind is the same basic concepts I started out with with my recruit edits a few months ago.

Swadians will have a lot of heater shields, crossbows and polearms, and spearheaded by their Knights.

Rhodoks will be similar, but with more ranged options and heavier polearms to make up for the lack of Knights.  They're going to look about half Swadian, not as distinct as old P&B or Native, for the same reason that the Americans used and still use a lot of British military doctrine even after independence -- because it's easier than reinventing the wheel.  So instead of borrowing the Byrnie, I'll borrow the Brigandine, Kettlehat  and Haubergeon.

Sarranids will have curved swords, round shields and throwing weapons.  Seriously nearly all non-Archer Sarranids will be throwing *something* at you, and even their recruits will have throwing daggers.  They will be a nation of skirmishers in other words.

Nords will have 1h axes, shields, throwing axes, and 2h axes  Their archers will have axes and shields.  When they want your castle they will ax very nicely.  In fact I'm going back and forth on whether there's honestly a point in making Nords branch at all, considering that the Fyrdman is the only Nordish unit anyone is really likely to use.

Vaegirs and Khergits I haven't decided on yet, they'd be the motleyest and least well organized militaries given their cultural heritage, and I suspect they'll wind up being a far bit less standardized as a result.  The Vaegir Ranger will still be the T6 Vaegir unit.  The Khergit won't have one since the War Lancer is about all you need to be scary.

 

[Thorberg]

It seems very interesting, much more like real troops than strategy game troops, as you say. Sounds like it should make it a lot more interesting to play with lower-tier troops; more tactical than just archer line on a hill and poorly-trained peasants charging in when the enemy get closer. It might even be more feasible to train a warband up carefully rather than hiring a few dozen peasants for each handful of soldiers you want.

Spoiler: Off-topic (Shogun 2)

Yeah, I still haven't kicked the drug that is Shogun 2....>.>

May I ask if you use any mods? I've just installed the latest version of Darthmod (even makes the battles less greedy for resources) and AUM, just to see what it's like.

 

[imgran]

It seems very interesting, much more like real troops than strategy game troops, as you say. Sounds like it should make it a lot more interesting to play with lower-tier troops; more tactical than just archer line on a hill and poorly-trained peasants charging in when the enemy get closer. It might even be more feasible to train a warband up carefully rather than hiring a few dozen peasants for each handful of soldiers you want.

Spoiler: Off-topic (Shogun 2)

Yeah, I still haven't kicked the drug that is Shogun 2....>.>

May I ask if you use any mods? I've just installed the latest version of Darthmod (even makes the battles less greedy for resources) and AUM, just to see what it's like.

THat's basically what I'm going for.  The objective is a bunch of soldiers that are designed to really work with the PBOD concept, and give a commander leading specifically infantry, the greatest variety of options for what to do with it.  If it succeeds it might even be a favored submod for PBOD lovers.  Not sure I want to look that far ahead though, I've got a lot of ground to cover.

 

[imgran]

Rhodoks are done.  They really changed, because I undid a lot of Aeon's overspecialization of Rhodok troops and replaced it with generalists of the line armed with picks, pavises and poleaxes.  I also revamped the Rhodok Cleaverman unit, re-armed it with the Shortened Military Scythe and merged it with the Skirmisher type.  Now the new Skirmisher and its upgrade, the Rhodok Striker, are better armored, and will chuck spears at you at a distance then engage you with a 2h sword, similar to the Nord Axeman.  The Crossbowman stayed more or less the same pther than maybe a few differences in equipment -- a good heavy archer that can do a lot of damage and take care of itself fairly well in close quarters.  The defining feature of the Rhodoks in P&B, in my mind, has always been that the Rhodoks are the only nation you can go 100% archer on and not worry too much about running into Khergits.  I tried to keep that going.

I also completely redid the Rhodok Champion, into much more of an unmounted version of the Swadian Knight, armed with a Poleaxe and with full helm and coat of plates, along with a bastard sword and a pavise, this is definitely a fella you don't want to look at when he's at the top of the ladder and you want to get into the castle.  If you want a good idea what he can do, think of the Vaegir Champion Footman with a longer reach.

So that's the two easiest factions done, now on to the Sarranids, followed by the ones where I'll actually have to think a little.  Like how NOT to fall back into the old thing where Vaegirs are this vanilla also-ran faction that's too similar to the Sarranids and Swadians and balancing the "generalist" flavor I've been shooting for with the nature of the 2 specialist nations (Nords and Khergits).

 

[imgran]

Vaegirs done.  I did bloody murder on the Vaegir Pikeman, turning that whole wing of the Vaegir chain into a spiked mace and bow Raider class designed to prey mercilessly on bandits and other less armored units (of which there's going to be rather few when I'm done, at least in regular armies).  They should hold fairly well under the strain of a charge of medium light cavalry.  A War Lancer, Swadian Knight or such though, and you can forget it unless you have a serious edge in numbers.  In all they're more or less the way Lezalit described them.  Interesting units, but a lot better behind a wall (the right configuration and they can just pour arrows and javelins on you).

The Vaegir Skirmisher now bears a suspicious resemblance to the Rhodok Striker, and there are a greater number of bows in evidence along the whole tree than there was before.  Most of the units are going to be roughly recognizable, but you can tell I've played with them.

 

[imgran]

For the record, if I'm doing this right, one of the side effects will be to cut the individual heroism factor down to pretty much nil.  This will be a realm full of well equipped soldiers, not as much "soft meat" to exploit, so you'd better polish your tactics if you want to not get hurt, and in the initial bit you will be glad of battle continuation.

Tackling Nords now.

 

[imgran]

After going back and forth in my head about it a little, I'm gonna go ahead and keep the Nord Bowman.  Bit useless though really, it's by far the weakest archer type in the game and really any decent Nord player is going to mostly ingore them in favor of Thegns and Huscarls anyway (and possibly Nord Axemen if those pesky opposing archers are too much of a nuisance)

Followed my formula.  Nord Axemen are now Nord Skirmishers, and the Long Axe class are the Nords' "polearm."  That could be either very scary or very pathetic depending on whether the AI can use them properly but I'll try it as if it works before going back on it.

Khergits next.

 

[imgran]

This is going fast.

Khergits are ready for testing.  I really didn't change a lot actually, frankly the Khergits are largely fine.  I did get rid of the Armored, Jarid and Bardiche Horsemen though.  Replaced them with the Khergit Raider, wielding 2h sabre and javenins, so there's that "combining units" thing again.  I'll replace the Khergit Armored Horseman if there's a need, right now I think there isn't.

Wow, is it really just the Sarranids between me and testing this thing?  Way cool.

 

[imgran]

And we're ready to rock.  Just let me get this thing rebundled.

 

[imgran]

We are uploading as I speak.

 

[imgran]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=T7UFU5CX

Boom.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to do the party templates.  DId a quick and dirty upgrade.  Let me know if there are balance issues.

 

[Kogara]

@Imgran Sweet, nice job cranking it out! Hopefully since its Friday I'll manage to test it....not sure yet. Would love to hear Thorbergs opinion though, too.

@Thorberg No mods on S2 - yet, where are the mods being hosted? I haven't looked into it yet but I think I will now.

 

[imgran]

..Something is seriously screwed up here.  Not sure I can fix this.  Will try.  This is by no means primetime ready yet, something is VERY odd about the map.  I might need some skilled assistance getting Humty Dumpty back together again  (or in this case, get it together in the first place.  I suspect that most of the problems are in party_templates.txt but they can't all be.

EDIT: OK, I think I've fixed the worst of the party_templates.txt errors, but I won't know until it's been reuploaded and retested.  I have no idea what to do about the map, that's completely beyond my ability to fix.

Anyone know how to reassign a fief to a faction using something like Morgh's Tools?  Because I'm at a complete loss.

*grumbles about how he should have attached it to the NMC Light mod instead*

 

[imgran]

... at this point it's time to hedge my bets.  I'm gonna redo the 'tree, in NMC Lite.  Tnere's some features I'm seeing in NMC full that I don't like, and NMC Lite still has PBOD.  If I can't fix the problems in NMC Lite then it's time to pack it in because I've gotten as far as my skill can take me.

 

[Kogara]

..Something is seriously screwed up here.  Not sure I can fix this.  Will try.  This is by no means primetime ready yet, something is VERY odd about the map.  I might need some skilled assistance getting Humty Dumpty back together again  (or in this case, get it together in the first place.  I suspect that most of the problems are in party_templates.txt but they can't all be.

EDIT: OK, I think I've fixed the worst of the party_templates.txt errors, but I won't know until it's been reuploaded and retested.  I have no idea what to do about the map, that's completely beyond my ability to fix.

Anyone know how to reassign a fief to a faction using something like Morgh's Tools?  Because I'm at a complete loss.

*grumbles about how he should have attached it to the NMC Light mod instead*

Uhg.......I'd have to double check but there should be fiefs in one of the sections for morgh's tools.....I want to say its int he party_template editor but now I'm not sure....will get back to you shortly

 

[imgran]

Testing the NMC-lite merge

 

[imgran]

BLAARGH!  THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM!  WHAT THE **** is going on here?

I can't fix it if I don't know what's going on, folks.  Sorry, but unless someone else knows what's wrong, it dies here.