New Character Creation proposals for 1.34 (brainstorming)
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Uhtred Ragnarson
Knight at Arms
40 would seem about right.
Done, thanks alls you, specially to Hister by his dedication.
Hister
Sergeant
I am glad Idibil included a lot of my proposals from this thread. 
Since the newest version of the mod has quite a lot of mistakes in it I asked Idibil for the source code and actually fixed all the problems.
I have sent Idibil a fixed text for character creation menu. As you know there were quite many typos and some wrong text applied. Vanilla text or poor English was used instead of some of the text for options that I haven't provided to Idibil originally. I now also provided that.
In addition I made a complete overhaul of 3 options he originally inserted that were very similar to each other. I changed the following things:
- Mercenary option for men is too similar with being a retinue option so I changed this entry to being a slave for men and women alike.
- "women at court" entry for woman character is too similar with a "wife of a lesser lord" option so I changed this so that women can also be a retinue for a local lord.
- I got rid of the vanilla student entry and changed it with Fully Free Peasant/Wife of a Fully Free Peasant. Being a student has no historical relevance for our mod and it only confuses the player - it is also too similar with cleric.
I'm waiting for Idibil's and Adorno's approval and inclusion in the next patch.
Next up is allotting attributes, skills, honour, renown and items according to my character creation proposal.
Currently waiting for some clarifications which code entry is what in game from Idibil and when I get that I can resume my work on this.
Since the newest version of the mod has quite a lot of mistakes in it I asked Idibil for the source code and actually fixed all the problems.
I have sent Idibil a fixed text for character creation menu. As you know there were quite many typos and some wrong text applied. Vanilla text or poor English was used instead of some of the text for options that I haven't provided to Idibil originally. I now also provided that.
In addition I made a complete overhaul of 3 options he originally inserted that were very similar to each other. I changed the following things:
- Mercenary option for men is too similar with being a retinue option so I changed this entry to being a slave for men and women alike.
- "women at court" entry for woman character is too similar with a "wife of a lesser lord" option so I changed this so that women can also be a retinue for a local lord.
- I got rid of the vanilla student entry and changed it with Fully Free Peasant/Wife of a Fully Free Peasant. Being a student has no historical relevance for our mod and it only confuses the player - it is also too similar with cleric.
I'm waiting for Idibil's and Adorno's approval and inclusion in the next patch.
Next up is allotting attributes, skills, honour, renown and items according to my character creation proposal.
Currently waiting for some clarifications which code entry is what in game from Idibil and when I get that I can resume my work on this.
Hister
Sergeant
Dorrin said:More character creation goodies? Going to be hard to quit on that part and get into the awesome game!
What I did was I fixed and polished up the whole design:
- Fixed unproper spacing, existing grammar mistakes and typos in the old text and also deleted parts of the text that collided with other options (some Father options had for example an attached text that was colliding with the Childhood options);
- Got rid of 3 vanilla game entries (Student option for example who collided with Priest and was ahistorical; Sellsword was too similar with Retinue and Lady in Waiting was too similar with Lord's Wife) that Idibil used 'cos I haven't initially provided accompanying text for my proposed options;
-Added or changed text so that players know exactly what to expect from the chosen options;
- Changed the whole stats system -> skills, attributes, proficiencies, renown, honour, starting money and other bonuses and maluses are now totally in line with what the text says about the chosen options and are now also more realistic/plausible. All stas have been assigned to different options along historical plausibility with the intention to immerse players more at the beginning of the game. History nerds will especially feel more cosy with the CC part of the game now.
;- There are now more pronounced differences between major classes so that players will feel a real difference if choosing for example all the way noble class, all the way slave class, all the way retinue class, etc. and all the combinations in-between. At the beginning of the campaign you will have to play more in-line with what chosen character options dictate. It is still possible to do as you like with your character but your progress will be much slower then if playing alongside your character's specialisations. A bit later in the campaign the differences will of course level out due to character progression and allotted points by the player.
- Father options no longer give you any other bonuses or maluses besides renown and in the case of a Theow also negative honour. You will have to choose your father carefully now. Your father's status determined to a large amount your actual status in the society and this is reflected in this design. Be a son or a daughter of an accomplished lord's retainer and have an easier start in the society or be a son or a daughter of a Theow and be treated as a menace from the get go (this can be of course negated if proper childhood and vocation options are chosen).
- Childhood options in general give the same bonuses and maluses as corresponding Vocation options but are usually much more weaker then Vocation options. This means that the chosen Vocation option aka what you did in your adult life will have the biggest impact on your starting gameplay but it won't be determinative.
- Allotted proper starting items (dress, weapons, food, money, etc.) so that you will no more see a noble character wearing a worn out peasant tunic with totally unproper weapons in his hands.
- All in all design in made more intuitive now and easier to grasp for players.
- Starting game difficulty will differ considerably from one chosen class to another.
It took me 2 whole days to finish and balance. In case Idibil won't include it in the planned future patches then I will ask him to release it as a submod.
The funny/scary fact is this system hasn't been tested yet 'cos I'm waiting for Idibil to implement it in the game. I'll playtest it and do necessary changes.
Edit: I decided to repost the following text I wrote in another thread:
Let me give you an example. The major classes one can make in CC are:
Noble
Merchant
Retainer
Peasant
Blacksmith
Bard
Priest
Poacher
Slave
It's when Childhood and Vocation options all belong to the same category then a major class is created. Chosen Father option gives player a certain amount of starting renown (can be + or -) and also negative honour in the case of an Outlaw.
Options under Fate (Revenge, Loss of a Loved One, etc.) are there primarily for finer adjustments of your chosen character and of course for the role playing flavour.
Vocation option you choose is IMHO the most important one since what you did in your adult life shaped you the most who you are when you start the game. In the game this translates into vocation options giving the biggest attributes, skills and other bonuses or maluses. In addition it also determines how much starting money you will have, how you will be dressed, what weapons and other items you will start with, your honour (when applicable) and renown (more renown is allotted under Father options since your stance in the society was primarily determined by your father's status back then).
Let's say player chooses the following build for his character:
Briton of average height for Nationality,
Free Peasant for Father,
Cottager for Childhood,
Free Peasant for Vocation and
Loss of a Loved One for Fate.
Player has created a true Peasant class per see. It's one of the major classes you can make in CC. This is the text that will be shown for this chosen build:
You are a Briton and you are of an average height. A member of Celtic people inhabiting ancient Britain.
Your father was a free man who was paying rent to his overlord and owed him labour services in exchange for the given land. He owned a horse and occasionally served as a mounted messenger when his lord was involved in a war but was most of the time deployed as a foot soldier where he had to rely on his shield and spear.
As a child you learned how to chop down trees with an axe, how to plough a field, and how to use a spear with a shield in a battle. You were fishing, collecting birds' eggs, caching wild ducks in nets and hunting deer and wild boar with the bow and javelins along other men from the village. In your pastimes you loved doing sports, especially swimming races where you usually excelled. You were sent to herd cattle and sheep with your dogs which kept a lookout for wolves. You were taught how to defend yourself against aggressive wild animals. Sometimes you were sent to far away pastures for days where you had to find enough food in the nature to sustain yourself. You always carried a sling and a bow with you in order to hunt wild animals for food. You lived with the nature and knew it's every secret. The great outdoors felt like a home to you. Throughout the years you developed a tough skin since you often had only provisional shelters to protect you from bad weather.
Though the distinction felt sudden to you, somewhere along the way you had become a man, and the whole world seemed to change around you. Being a free men meant you had it laid down easier then lower ranking peasants who had to do all the tasks by themselves. You owned some servants who helped you with the hard work but since you didn't own a lot of land you still had to do variety of tasks all peasants have to do. You had to pay rent to your overlord and owed him labour services in exchange for the given land. When he was involved in a war you answered his call as a foot soldier where you had to rely on your shield and a spear in the tick of a battle. Hunting in the woods alone with your bow and javelins was your favourite activity and it helped bring additional food on the table. When no animals were to be found in the forest you foraged for eatable plants which were then cooked by your wife. You spent a lot of time in the nature and knew it's every secret. The great outdoors felt like a home to you. In your pastimes you loved doing a variety of sports with other men.
Only you know exactly what caused you to give up your old life and become an adventurer. All you can say is that you couldn't bear to stay, not with the memories of those you loved so close and so painful. Perhaps your new life will let you forget the name that you can no longer bear to speak... Although you treated its wounds that person passed away, you could do nothing to change the destiny. All that remains now is to get a ticker skin so that such tragedies won't affect you so much and move on.
Your father was a free man who was paying rent to his overlord and owed him labour services in exchange for the given land. He owned a horse and occasionally served as a mounted messenger when his lord was involved in a war but was most of the time deployed as a foot soldier where he had to rely on his shield and spear.
As a child you learned how to chop down trees with an axe, how to plough a field, and how to use a spear with a shield in a battle. You were fishing, collecting birds' eggs, caching wild ducks in nets and hunting deer and wild boar with the bow and javelins along other men from the village. In your pastimes you loved doing sports, especially swimming races where you usually excelled. You were sent to herd cattle and sheep with your dogs which kept a lookout for wolves. You were taught how to defend yourself against aggressive wild animals. Sometimes you were sent to far away pastures for days where you had to find enough food in the nature to sustain yourself. You always carried a sling and a bow with you in order to hunt wild animals for food. You lived with the nature and knew it's every secret. The great outdoors felt like a home to you. Throughout the years you developed a tough skin since you often had only provisional shelters to protect you from bad weather.
Though the distinction felt sudden to you, somewhere along the way you had become a man, and the whole world seemed to change around you. Being a free men meant you had it laid down easier then lower ranking peasants who had to do all the tasks by themselves. You owned some servants who helped you with the hard work but since you didn't own a lot of land you still had to do variety of tasks all peasants have to do. You had to pay rent to your overlord and owed him labour services in exchange for the given land. When he was involved in a war you answered his call as a foot soldier where you had to rely on your shield and a spear in the tick of a battle. Hunting in the woods alone with your bow and javelins was your favourite activity and it helped bring additional food on the table. When no animals were to be found in the forest you foraged for eatable plants which were then cooked by your wife. You spent a lot of time in the nature and knew it's every secret. The great outdoors felt like a home to you. In your pastimes you loved doing a variety of sports with other men.
Only you know exactly what caused you to give up your old life and become an adventurer. All you can say is that you couldn't bear to stay, not with the memories of those you loved so close and so painful. Perhaps your new life will let you forget the name that you can no longer bear to speak... Although you treated its wounds that person passed away, you could do nothing to change the destiny. All that remains now is to get a ticker skin so that such tragedies won't affect you so much and move on.
The text gives you direct hints at what the chosen character will be good at at the start of the game. I won't post crude numbers for stats yet since the design is still in it's WIP state.
You will get some renown for being a son of a Free Peasant. Having that status wasn't a very big deal back then but big enough to distinguish you from other lower ranking classes. Things you did in the Childhood, Adulthood (vocation) and the reason (Fate) for becoming an adventurer are directly translated to allotted stats. For example as text hints you will be somewhat strong, agile, athletic, having a tough skin, having some basic shield knowledge, experienced with a spear and somewhat less with a bow and javelins, having some rudimentary tracking, path finding and wound treatment but good in spotting.
You will start the campaign with a proper peasant dress, small shield, a spear, a hunting dagger and some simple javelins.
This build is good all-rounder, it is not hard to play with him but also not easy. You'll have harder time fighting with one handed or two handed weapons with this guy from the get go then you would have with for example a Retainer class who is well versed in one and two handed weapon fighting. Instead you will at the beginning resort more to your spear and shield and sometimes also use bow and javelins. You can of course get yourself that two-handed sword but you will have more success with a spear.
Hope my post answered your question to the point
How about under the "parent" part, you could have this choice:
"Bastard/Fatherless"
"You never knew your father nor his vocation, and your mother never spoke of him. For all you know he might have been a soft-spoken noble with a heavy coin purse or an invader who forced himself on your mother. Growing up without a father made you a target for bullying and ridicule, and got you in plenty of fights. You learned how to defend yourself without a male role model to guide your moral path. You had to work hard from an early age to support yourself and your mother, and often resorted to stealing to supplement your meagre income."
No renown, but possibly a looting bonus?
Something like that, at least.
"Bastard/Fatherless"
"You never knew your father nor his vocation, and your mother never spoke of him. For all you know he might have been a soft-spoken noble with a heavy coin purse or an invader who forced himself on your mother. Growing up without a father made you a target for bullying and ridicule, and got you in plenty of fights. You learned how to defend yourself without a male role model to guide your moral path. You had to work hard from an early age to support yourself and your mother, and often resorted to stealing to supplement your meagre income."
No renown, but possibly a looting bonus?
Something like that, at least.
Hister
Sergeant
A note about current 1.351 and my CC system:
Character creation system I designed isn't implemented in the 1.35 version. Well, only text part is in together with alloted proper items but the actual stat values are somewhat arbitrary and don't resemble my system at all.
That is due to the quick "fix" that Idibil needed to do 'cos we encountered a hardcoded issue with the way I set it up. There is an issue with negative values in the code where you get strange, unwanted added weapon skill points. Poster who expressed concern with hasstily created new sytsem was right. A said problem cropped up 2 days ago and we hadn't had the time to bypass it for the announced release time yesterday.Currently brainstorming how to bypass the issue.
Another problem is Idibil says my intended starting stats are too high and prevent players from "normal" progression. I don't agree with him on that point but it is his mod and he has the final word of course. I asked him what are acceptable max stats caps. If he proposes too low values then I'm afraid there won't be much starting difference between different major classes.
It's his call.
Will let you guys posted how things develop.
Character creation system I designed isn't implemented in the 1.35 version. Well, only text part is in together with alloted proper items but the actual stat values are somewhat arbitrary and don't resemble my system at all.
That is due to the quick "fix" that Idibil needed to do 'cos we encountered a hardcoded issue with the way I set it up. There is an issue with negative values in the code where you get strange, unwanted added weapon skill points. Poster who expressed concern with hasstily created new sytsem was right. A said problem cropped up 2 days ago and we hadn't had the time to bypass it for the announced release time yesterday.Currently brainstorming how to bypass the issue.
Another problem is Idibil says my intended starting stats are too high and prevent players from "normal" progression. I don't agree with him on that point but it is his mod and he has the final word of course. I asked him what are acceptable max stats caps. If he proposes too low values then I'm afraid there won't be much starting difference between different major classes.
It's his call.
Will let you guys posted how things develop.
