Most incompetent soldiers/warriors/armies

[Comrade Crimson]

Right, much like the other "Best whatever" threads, I decided to do one for history's losers and under-achievers. The worst militaries, most hilariously under performing battles and other such nonsense.

For starters, the Austrian Hungarian empire in the Battle of Karansebes, which may or may not have happened in 1788. Nearly 10,000 wounded and injured from drunken brawl turned into mass hysteria of a false alarm, which grew worse due to the several different languages used in their army.

I want to know more confirmed stuff of blunders, failures and complete screw ups in military history. I want to know of the oafs, fools and just cases of plain crappy luck.

I also want to know more info on supposed badly performing armies such as the Italians in World War 2, as I've heard differing opinions and sources on their performance ranging from decent to being an utter joke, pending on the sources.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

First generation knights during the crusades. Some of their acts of selfish  bravado nearly jeapordised the campaigns they were on, like preventing allies from entering a city they had captured so they wouldnt share in the glory, or raiding around mecca which provoked saladin.

Second and third generation migrants from europe formed a separate court faction called the "Poliens", who preferred strategic conquest and bilateral agreements with muslim egypt and syria, but the newcomers just wanted to match on Jerusalem without planning anything. the Poliens exercised a lot of energy between 1150-1200 in preventing the newcomers from having their way.
Eventually though, with the tumult of the third crusade the poliens lost the ideological war and the newcomer knights bought about the failure of almost every one of the "later" post-1200 crusades. Interestingly enough though, the "polien" mindset became the norm for the crusade leaders, even if not among the armies.

 

[Swissky]

I was just going to mention that Austrian battle in the difficult questions thread, but then remembered that it is most likely Ottoman propaganda.

The Romanian and Hungarian forces (?) on the north-eastern front of Stalingrad started fighting one another just before the Soviets launched a sizeable offensive.

 

[Comrade Crimson]

Also, I suppose we can throw in ridiculous uniforms in here as well.

I've always found the Spanish Tricorns of the Falangists/Francisco Franco's army to be funny looking.

 

[e27]

I was just going to mention that Austrian battle in the difficult questions thread, but then remembered that it is most likely Ottoman propaganda.

ottoman propaganda:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kar%C3%A1nsebes#The_.22battle.22

 

[Mamlaz]

I'd say the Turkish mercenary dominated Byzantine armies of the Palaeologus period.

The amount of humiliation they would suffer in Greece is mindbending, especially at Prinitza and Neopatras.

or raiding around mecca which provoked saladin.

Elaborate?

Saladin did not really need provocation to march against the KoJ.

 

[matmohair1]

Republican Roman Triarii

Spoiler

 

[Areze]

Criticizing the Romans!?



REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE



In related news: The US army circa the time period leading up to the Spanish-American War was by what I can remember a sorry joke.

 

[Bluehawk]

Also, I suppose we can throw in ridiculous uniforms in here as well.

Spoiler: Peacocking

Private, NCO, junior officer and drummer of the grenadier company of the Imperial Militia Battalion (predecessor to the Guard's Finland Regiment) circa 1807

 

[Mamlaz]

Hey, at least downward sword swings would be problematic against their heads.

 

[matmohair1]

Criticizing the Romans!?

the triarii were supposed to be a reserve army of veterans,
intervening during emergencies, during which it was already too late, or the battle was already lost!
so basically one third of the army, was composed to wasted talent that was seldom deployed.

Spoiler

even  Gaius Marius noticed a shortage of manpower after the campaigns against Jugurtha in Numidia

Spoiler

The Marian reforms did away with all unnecessary units, 
as well as wealth and age requirements...

Spoiler

in favor of the "Marius' Mules", which lead to the development of future legionaries...

Spoiler

 

[Mamlaz]

I don't think you understood the purpose of this thread.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

It fits in perfectly fine with the purpose of the thread. It is, in his eyes, an incompetence of the early roman armies. The thread title includes "incompetent armies".

 

[RC-1136]

the triarii were supposed to be a reserve army of veterans,
intervening during emergencies, during which it was already too late, or the battle was already lost!
so basically one third of the army, was composed to wasted talent that was seldom deployed.

Armies of the Late Republic and the Empire fought in triplex acies as well calling the third line of milites 'Triarii'.

Considering the so called Marian reforms there is a strong tendency in academia to believe them to be more of a gradual transition instead of real reforms initiated by Marius himself.

But BTT: I don't know of a single event where a battle was lost because of the incompetence of Triarii. Instead the concept was so successful that it was continued after the 'Marian reforms'.

Btw.: As far as I have learned there is no evidence for the Triarii to ever have worn these Apulo-Corinthian helmets they are always shown with.

 

[Swissky]

Also, I suppose we can throw in ridiculous uniforms in here as well.

Whatever sad Polish People's Army sniper wore this, I feel bad for him whilst simultaneously laughing my ass off.

[spoiler="Yay" c:]

[/spoiler]

 

[Captured Joe]

The Romanian and Hungarian forces (?) on the north-eastern front of Stalingrad started fighting one another just before the Soviets launched a sizeable offensive.

That's nonsense. There was a small Italian army (the 8th) stationed between the Hungarian 2nd and the Romanian 3rd army just to prevent this from happening, which was unlikely to happen anyway. Both Romania and Hungary kept sizable Border Guards units in Transsylvania watching their border in case of hostilities, which didn't happen until Romania switched sides in August 1944.
Also the Romanians on the Don river were aware of Soviet preparations for operation Uranus, but the Germans chose to ignore them, believing the Romanians to be too panicky. All the while they stripped away German reserves intended to give the ridiculously overstretched Romanian forces some much-needed backbone and anti-tank firepower, to waste it away in Stalingrad. 3rd army Commander General Petre Dumitrescu requested (and was denied) permission to the Germans to eliminate a threatening Soviet bridgehead over the Don too.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Criticizing the Romans!?

the triarii were supposed to be a reserve army of veterans,
intervening during emergencies, during which it was already too late, or the battle was already lost!
so basically one third of the army, was composed to wasted talent that was seldom deployed.

That's more a testament to roman victories than the failure of the triarii system. Plenty of armies at the time had veteran reservists which were only to be committed in emergencies, and the manipular system served the romans very well while the bulk of their manpower was still in Italy.

 

[Mamlaz]

It fits in perfectly fine with the purpose of the thread. It is, in his eyes, an incompetence of the early roman armies. The thread title includes "incompetent armies".

Having a reserves is not incompetence.

 

[matmohair1]

unless its nearly a third of your manpower, and who needs triarii and veles, when hasatai
and princeps are doing the job just fine?! The problem wasn't about reserves,
but armament and deployment. besides they definitely got scrapped for a reason,
just like the production of Lockheed Martin, F-22 Raptors. who needs something
that expensive when F15s and F16s are getting the same results more effectively.

 

[Mamlaz]

unless its nearly a third of your manpower

It is actually one fifth the manpower, as triarii were 600 added to the 2400.

Just because something was replaced does not automatically mean it sucked.