Is Smithing fixed/nerfed yet?

Currently viewing this thread:

Gadheras

Regular
Actually, it turns out that, yes, players need to be shielded from themselves when they abuse mechanics to get an unfair advantage. This is why exploits are actually fixed, same as bugs.
It's reasonable to assume that the game designer balanced the challenges and the rewards in the game for the player to have a sense of accomplishment proportionate to their skill and effort. Exploits disrupt that balance and players like you have a hard time resisting abusing exploits.

So, me happy about forge some 3-4k weapons to sell is abusing the system? m'kay.... Break down crap and turn it into something slightly better is good enough for me. Majority of income I get from selling loot after battles, and ransom prisoners. But if people feel like exploit mechanics to have fun, it doesn't ruin the game for me. Players that scream for fix it, seems to be a bunch of people without any self control what so ever.
 

JDZ5

Regular
I only started smithing this recent run, and man. Literally after like 30 smithing levels the javelins can make you hundreds of thousands of denar in a week. I had no idea it was this bad, so I made it a "rule" to never sell anything I create. A huge oversight by TW to say the least.
 

Gadheras

Regular
When it´s fixed you can still forge weapons and sell them, but not for 100k denars.

Never thought that someone will defend a broken mechanic :grin: .

Never thought I would see someone defending peoples need to be wrapped in bubblewrap because they got such a low self control they can't avoid abuse it? :grin:

I said above I don't abuse the system, but at same time I don't care what people do in their single player games that only affect themselves.
I think if they fix this, without fix the economy as whole, you will have a lot more people crying than those that have the need to be protected from themselves due to lack of self control...
 
Never thought I would see someone defending peoples need to be wrapped in bubblewrap because they got such a low self control they can't avoid abuse it? :grin:

I said above I don't abuse the system, but at same time I don't care what people do in their single player games that only affect themselves.
I think if they fix this, without fix the economy as whole, you will have a lot more people crying than those that have the need to be protected from themselves due to lack of self control...
I avoid it since day one, I never use smithing (not just because of the exploit, it´s just not my playstyle and boring in my opinion).

I also don´t care what people do in their singleplayer games, but I care about balance in games and the smithing system is just unbalanced/broken.

And again, no worries, you can still cheat yourself money in your singleplayer game after this is fixed but you won´t be able to trade a settlement with a javelin, I hope...
 
Never thought I would see someone defending peoples need to be wrapped in bubblewrap because they got such a low self control they can't avoid abuse it? :grin:

I said above I don't abuse the system, but at same time I don't care what people do in their single player games that only affect themselves.
I think if they fix this, without fix the economy as whole, you will have a lot more people crying than those that have the need to be protected from themselves due to lack of self control...
If people want to go out of their way and cheat no biggie that's what cheats and console commands are for, but a company should never leave in a huge exploit and telling people don't use this big exploit just doesn't work. Players will to go the easy route, that's just human nature. All this exploit does is make the game economy have no challenge which causes players to stop playing because they're bored. So in the end if TW is smart they'll fix this exploit.
 

SOku

Recruit

Additionally there is a GDC Talk explaining very well those kind of situations on games, how players are naturally prone to exploit a bad design and how it should be solved before hand, you just can't hope that players will have some kind of self-control, you need to create those barriers to guide them.
I can't remind which one though, it was so good I wouldn't mind watching it again and linking that exact timecode here.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Never thought I would see someone defending peoples need to be wrapped in bubblewrap because they got such a low self control they can't avoid abuse it? :grin:

I said above I don't abuse the system, but at same time I don't care what people do in their single player games that only affect themselves.
I think if they fix this, without fix the economy as whole, you will have a lot more people crying than those that have the need to be protected from themselves due to lack of self control...

You're assuming people dont like it because they lack they selfcontrol to use an exploit -- you assume wrong. The problem is that the mechanic is broken and that effects the game. Would you be happy if you spent $50 on a virtual master Chess game but all the pieces could move anywhere with no constraints? Id expect no but why? You could just use self control and only move the pawn one space? Because we are paying for and expecting a well calibrated game that has a nice balanced play mechanic that we strive to master and beat. Those who use cheats to beat a sandbox game are of inferior gene pool and have no relevance here. This is about proper game mechanics and calibration.
 

Medivhtratos

Sergeant at Arms
Loot of six army fights and you will have a 314 smithy. So if you relate prices to smithy skills, forget it. This skill is in a game week maxed out.

Making crafted weapons all the way cheaper, also difficult. Because all weapons are crafted, also the battle loot. Yes battle loot. There was a discussion last year that the lords converting battle loot into money. So if crafted weapons getting cheaper also battle loot will getting cheaper and not only the players but also the lords can become poor/starving.

OK now the last option, give only player crafted weapons a tag with which the game knows "ah only these crafted things aren't worth a coin". Some players will become unpleasant when the see that they can only sell javelins worth 509 denars but a city wants for the game crafted javelins 298k denars.

So in my opinion.. Just swap the smiting learning curve with medicine and I'm fine 😛
 

Bratok

Recruit
Sorry If am repeating already discussed things. I have noticed that not all player-forged weapons are overpriced, and the price greatly depends on weapon's damage. The price formula is probably bugged somewhere, cause the value increase seems to be exponential, not linear.
The most expensive things are axes, pole arms and javelins with 5 tier blades/spearheads. Other elements (handles, shafts, hilts, pommels) don't really matter much. Some components are outright bugged, e.g. the famous ash javelin shaft that requires 0 hardwood to produce.

There is a discussion about loot on the forum, where we have tried editing game files in order to decrease equipment prices. Decreasing the price multiplier makes player-forged weapons 10 times cheaper. However, other goods are also affected by the change and can become unimmersively cheap.

It seems that no one in TW has actually bothered looking into smithing since the very early development stages, the feature is so half-baked it is unbelievable.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
Loot of six army fights and you will have a 314 smithy. So if you relate prices to smithy skills, forget it. This skill is in a game week maxed out.

Making crafted weapons all the way cheaper, also difficult. Because all weapons are crafted, also the battle loot. Yes battle loot. There was a discussion last year that the lords converting battle loot into money. So if crafted weapons getting cheaper also battle loot will getting cheaper and not only the players but also the lords can become poor/starving.

OK now the last option, give only player crafted weapons a tag with which the game knows "ah only these crafted things aren't worth a coin". Some players will become unpleasant when the see that they can only sell javelins worth 509 denars but a city wants for the game crafted javelins 298k denars.

So in my opinion.. Just swap the smiting learning curve with medicine and I'm fine 😛
Maybe I am wrong on this but I have the feeling that lords are not getting 100% the cost of the loot when selling it, and they get some kind of penalty in the same way than the player. If it is the case, reducing all gear cost would not be a problem if this penalty for the AI would be reduced. On the other hand, as far I know, if the equipment cost gets overall reduced, we (and the AI) would be getting more items after every battle according to the loot formula , right (not totally sure about this)?
 

Bratok

Recruit
Are you even sure that lords get loot from battles and sell it? I think they just get flat money bonuses (if any) from winning battles. It may be that they don't even get any rewards from battles, except for xp, troops, and prisoners.
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
When they "fix" the smithing.. The outcry over how they can't play the game anylonger because they go broke, will be way higher than the cry from people who can't restrain themselves from abusing the system and cry about it need to be nerfed.
Good I want to bully them
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Maybe I am wrong on this but I have the feeling that lords are not getting 100% the cost of the loot when selling it, and they get some kind of penalty in the same way than the player.
You're right.
However as you know there is high trade penalty at weapons / armors, as player if you try to sell or buy same item you can see high price difference. When trade penalty added to this loot->money conversation money inflation is decreased and total clan leader money at mid/late game in all world is decreased.
The trade penalty was added to their loot. Now it is rare to find an NPC clan with more than about 20,000 denars to their name.
 

Gadheras

Regular
I'd just input a max value cap on any item that is crafted. Yeah it's a a bit ham-fisted but it would resolve the issue in an instant.

It doesn't fix the economy as whole. Fixing the smithing need to be a part of fixing the economy as whole.

Also, you have perks in the smithing tree that allow for crafting kinda epic weapons, such need to "stand out" more, and thus these should be the real high earners of smithing.
 
Top Bottom