Is modding support for Bannerlord dead?

[FullmetalAnalyst]

When i bought this game i thought the devs would at least provide some support or API on how to do stuff.

However, ive been asking some questions in https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/asset-creation-modder-questions.437583/ 1 month ago and so far there was no response, though previously the response took them just a few days.

So the question is, can we consider modding support for this game dead for good?

Also recent developments like "forgetting" to add modding tools on the last update, or adding a "sandbox" that isnt really a sandbox just makes me think they currently dont even want anyone to mod their game...

 

[Bloc]

can we consider modding support for this game dead for good?

Modding Support doesn't mean that they have answer every single question you have. Game is currently supporting modding and they also have official modding tools which weren't there before, in Warband. Yet the community came up with their own tools - because the game itself was supporting modding. The same goes for Bannerlord, yet it's more extensive compared to Warband.
So no, modding support is not dead + game is still in EA and rightfully modding is the least of their concerns.

And about your question in that thread - you cannot do that just by editing some XML's. You have to edit the campaign map as well - which is currently not a great experience. And you probably need to remove certain other bindings in the DLL files by overriding them.
Also, asking to remove a lord and removing a faction is completely different things with different outcomes.

 

[FullmetalAnalyst]

Then why dont they even give us a propper way of loading custom assets?
Like if i want to add new sprites i have to actually add some C# code, if they really want to support modding, why didnt they make any folders where we can just put our assets and they get loaded?
Another questionable choice when it comes to making a game moddable, why didnt they keep any API documentation from the start? It would be alot easier for them, than having others reverse-engineer their whole game...

Even if modding is their least concern, they could at least have given us an ACTUAL sandbox mode like in other games, where you just start on an empty map and can add the assets you like without fighting all the native stuff that gets in your way.

Thats basic stuff any moddable game needs, and the kind of stuff that makes me think they just dont want any modding of their game...

(and for the tools they obviously didnt even bother updating them for 1.5.9)

 

[Bloc]

I'm seeing that you are genuinely frustrated and not trolling. So I will explain it.

Then why dont they even give us a propper way of loading custom assets?

You have Modding Tools for that - it's the proper way of loading custom assets. And again, it's a huge step-up compared to Warband. Because in Warband, there were no official tools. Without mtarini's OpenBRF, we wouldn't have this many M&B mods. And community had to wait fairly a long time for that. So you can understand how great it is to have official tools for asset integration.
Even Total War didn't provide Official Modding tools for a long time - so it's not very logical to expect this from a mid-sized company this fast.

Like if i want to add new sprites i have to actually add some C# code,

You can add new Sprites via Spritesheet generator as far as I know and this doesn't need any C# code at all - only XML tweaking if you want to see it in game. I haven't added anything so I'm not entirely sure but I'm 95% certain that it doesn't require C# code. It does require a module though.

if they really want to support modding, why didnt they make any folders where we can just put our assets and they get loaded?

Perhaps they will do that in the future? You are forgetting the fact that they are not making a game engine - they are making a game. And usually, you do the game first, and then make it accessible/moddable later on. And as you can see, the game is not ready yet.

Another questionable choice when it comes to making a game moddable, why didnt they keep any API documentation from the start? It would be alot easier for them, than having others reverse-engineer their whole game...

No it wouldn't. Apart from several Engine Interface Calls, the rest doesn't require to have API documentation. Because:
- Most of the code used by modders are not "simple" methods created by TW. So knowing there is a method in TroopRoster that returns List<TroopRoster> won't increase your modding skills significantly. Which, again, this information can be seen by a click of a button anyway. And in matter of fact, TW has a very low amount of public and helper methods in the game right now. Even if they make them public, you would still require to see the exact code to manipulate that. Especially if you want to change something in the function, you have to patch it. And to do that, you need to know exact code of that function.
- Its pointless to have it while you change the structures and methods overnight with different updates. If you had API documentation,, you also had to update that over and over countless of times in EA. They can make it after EA - once everything stabilized and when they finalized their architecture.

Even if modding is their least concern, they could at least have given us an ACTUAL sandbox mode like in other games, where you just start on an empty map and can add the assets you like without fighting all the native stuff that gets in your way.

You completely misunderstood the Sandbox Mode in that announcement. Sandbox Mode doesn't mean Code Sandbox Mode. What they mean as Sandbox Mode is that you don't have to deal with all these pre-defined storylines and so on. You will just pick a location and start playing the game without that lousy banner missions. Don't expect them to give you an empty map and add assets. That's also not logical for anyone at all. If people won't get bored with this shallow game quickly, and if everything turns out like in Warband-case, then you will see a lot of tutorials and guides for modding. Then you can actually start doing something if you don't want to get your hands dirty. But don't expect Devs to hold your hand - they can answer some of your questions but no Dev will give you a huge explanation and/or tutorial unless he has a patience like a Saint.

Thats basic stuff any moddable game needs, and the kind of stuff that makes me think they just dont want any modding of their game...

Well, you are wrong, sorry. These are not the `basic` stuff any moddable game needs. I didn't see any Sandbox mode you described in any game at all - to be honest. ( Except in some Atari games where you were able to design your own levels etc but that's not "modding") Most of the games don't even support modding all together and some don't support at the beginning and bringing tools etc after a year or so. Currently game is in EA - this is no excuse for it's lame feature content, but it's an extremely good excuse for not having really easy modding support - which is also something you are mixing up right now. Easy Modding Support doesn't mean Modding Support. Can you have both? Yes - but this requires triple amount of work. So currently what they are doing is totally okay.

tl;dr: Game is 10 times more moddable than their previous game ( codewise ) and they are also providing modding tools - even though game is still in EA. That's not as easy as you think. If they keep everything same after release + 6 months, then you can continue your roasting by saying that this type of modding support is just hard and messy. But currently, stating this is not right.

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Bloc already summarised it perfectly, +1

 

[FullmetalAnalyst]

Thanks Bloc for taking ur time and writing an extensive answer i appreciate it,

just want to try and explain better the problems i had with sprites:
i was trying to add a custom GUI element, for a start i took the map bar time thingy, and tried to recreate it
all went fine while i was just overriding the files in MapBar folder.
problems started showing when i tried to add new sprites, there was nowhere to specify my new categories, and there was virtually no information about how to do that, after a long time of trying to figure this out someone finally found a solution to this, which was adding code in my SubModule to register a new SpriteCategory class and SpriteCategories variable.



Without adding this i was unable to use the sprites i added by modding tools.

Also, apprently they removed our ability to override these prefabs for some reason with the last beta update, which makes adding new UI elements much harder.

I am not asking for a full API for every little thing, but stuff like this needs to be made known to everyone.



(also when talking about a SandBox im refering to the mother of all sandbox gaming, Garry's Mod, and thats just the type of sandbox i was expecting which would make sense for conversion projects imo)

 

[Bloc]

how to do that, after a long time of trying to figure this out someone finally found a solution to this, which was adding code in my SubModule to register a new SpriteCategory class and SpriteCategories variable.

Not sure where this is coming from but if it's the only way to add this, then it's not ideal surely. But I doubt that this is the case. Someone that worked with Sprites can inform you about this better than I do, but in the initial version of the game, there wasn't a Spritesheet generator, this is added later on according to Devs. So it should be easier to add sprites now.

If you add "enemy_castle" and its 9 grid xml under "GUI \ SpriteParts \ {GROUP_NAME}" in your mod's Module folder, like the original, when you run SpritesheetGenerator it will pack the sheet. It will appear in "resource.show_resource_browser", after packing the spritesheet into tpac when it loads that sheet group.

This was the example I got from UI Dev about how to import something ( translated from Turkish ) - but he knew that I was already writing my own dll - so it could be that he assumed I will execute that code piece anyways. So since I don't have hands-on experience with Sprites, I can't help you much about that, unfortunately.

i am not asking for a full API for every little thing, but stuff like this needs to be made known to everyone.

Then I think you are asking for guides - rather than API's. Because API's are for programming endpoints usually - for knowing the classes and such. Most of the time they are self explanatory so they are not required at this unstable stage.
But about other tools ( scene editor, material editor etc) you are correct. They don't have proper information - http://docs.modding.bannerlord.com/ is shallow, for example. But this is due to fact that it's still under EA and the team doesn't have much time to create a full modding suite.

(also when talking about a SandBox im refering to the mother of all sandbox gaming, Garry's Mod, and thats just the type of sandbox i was expecting which would make sense for conversion projects imo)

Garry's Mod is a game made with Source Engine. It's not derived from Half-Life directly. So they already had Source Engine on their hands - they just made it on-the-fly customizable. Completely different things as you may imagine. TW is now trying to improve their game engine, also trying to make the game, and also trying to make the game accessible meanwhile. Currently what they are trying to do is more like trying to wipe the windshield with one hand, while driving the car meanwhile, and taking a sip from their cola.
If I were TW, I wouldn't allow any modding activity or release modding related tools and would focus on the Game and Engine first. Then after release, I would release and improve modding tools. But TW is aware of the fact that game is boring as hell and without mods, people will lose interest - and with their slow pace, in the release, no one will play it. So it's more like an obligation for them to have some form of modding tools/support. But they also can't have engine-like tool in one night, so they have to improve it slowly over time as well.