Is that something the devs have said or are you just completely guessing Taleworlds is at fault?
I'd like a refund.
- Thread starter DefenderoftheCrown
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Docm30 said:
I wouldn't think that Taleworlds are utterly blameless in this matter, but a lot of the seemingly strange game decisions are definitely the fault of the developers, like excluding two-handed axes while including scale armour and having the strongest weapon in the game be a piece of wood.
kraggrim
Marquis
Docm30 said:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,319752.msg7564192.html#msg7564192
Armagan and Taleworlds accepted responsibility (and even apologised to the Brytenwalda team).
Levity99x
Regular
freedomna said:
Well, thanks for setting me straight on the issue, that truly is a shame.
My apologizes Brytenwalda team
Aklis said:
Well, that all makes sense now as to why two handed axes were left out - time crunch. Shame on taleworlds.
kraggrim said:
Thank's for the link, that really sucks.
AamuZombi
Recruit
I think its hardly the fault of the brytenwalda team if the game is not perfect at release, its pretty obvious it was rushed due to the set release date. While on the other hand it didn't deliver what was advertised, and is little more than an overhaul mod (that could've been just as well been released as such) this still has a lot of potential, given some polishing, and frankly I'm happy to support something like this over some AAA cashcow titles, wich are released halfway done intentionally and the fixes are sold as dlcs, now thats unforgivable in my opinion.
Ralepozozaxe
Regular
So they did rush it out before it was finished just to make the money? That sounds like a valid reason for a refund to me. If steam emails me and ask for more info i'll be sure to tell them that.
You're going to tell them that some guy on the internet with no affiliation to either TaleWorlds or the developers gave you an inside line on their intentions, and that those intentions were to rush out the game unfinished to make more money? That doesn't seem like a good idea.Ralepozozaxe said:
freedomna said:
This.
My impression is that Brytenwalda's not an experienced development studio. It's not their fault that they are not experienced since everyone needs to gain experience at some point, but the publisher would need to exercise more caution in products coming out of them. Maybe better QA facility, more alpha/beta testing, etc.
That month-long crunching reported by a Brytenwalda dev is just bad from a developmental standpoint because coding quality diminishes with fatigue but corporate bean counters usually don't care and can't comprehend the hidden costs involved (i.e. bugs that require time to fix, increased maintenance, diminished sales, diminished reputation, diminished morale) because these don't show up as easy-to-read numbers in their neat little spreadsheets.
I'm glad this thread is finally cycling around to the fact that Taleworlds was holding most of the cards. Nobody's blameless here but the Bretynwalda team was getting all the flak.
I pretty much solidly fall in the camp of 'too buggy, needed more testing but don't regret the $10'. I'm happy to support any and all small Indy companies that are struggling to make it on a limited budget. I've been around $50 to 100M AAA projects, there are armies of QA testers and they still release buggy crap. Does that excuse these bugs ? No. Do I expect them yes, I alsoexpect hope they'll learn from their mistakes (since folks seem entirely incapable of learning from other peoples). There are books on game development written almost 20 years ago that describe buggy release failures due to a failure to test/plan/schedule.
Lastly some people seem entirely too spun up about it such that they're conflating game design decisions they disagree with (armor/weapon choices, scripted quest vs MP) with game release logistics (too little testing etc). I get being pissed about the latter, for the former just realize the game isn't for you and find one that is or support a future modders effort. Give the vitriol a rest already.
I pretty much solidly fall in the camp of 'too buggy, needed more testing but don't regret the $10'. I'm happy to support any and all small Indy companies that are struggling to make it on a limited budget. I've been around $50 to 100M AAA projects, there are armies of QA testers and they still release buggy crap. Does that excuse these bugs ? No. Do I expect them yes, I also
Lastly some people seem entirely too spun up about it such that they're conflating game design decisions they disagree with (armor/weapon choices, scripted quest vs MP) with game release logistics (too little testing etc). I get being pissed about the latter, for the former just realize the game isn't for you and find one that is or support a future modders effort. Give the vitriol a rest already.
Kozenger
Regular
I don't understand why most gamers thing it's ok to be sold half broken or fully broken products. You wouldn't accept that at a movie theater or when buying a new car. Do you go to a restaurant and expect the chef to just half cook the chicken in your burrito ? No. You get your money back because it's unacceptable behavior from a business. I really wish consumers (gamers) would make companies pay when they pull stuff like this. Maybe then it would stop happening. Otherwise we're just going to continue to be the punching bag.
I don't understand that comparison.
Get a broken car and they fix it under warranty.
Get a bad meal and you send it back for a fresh one.
Got a game with flaws, it's actively being fixed and for a growing number of people already is. Missing a feature you wanted doesn't make it unfinished or broken it just means you like something they didn't want which is a choice for them to make not us
To use your comparison, you don't tell the company how to build the car you want, you find the company that already does.
Get a broken car and they fix it under warranty.
Get a bad meal and you send it back for a fresh one.
Got a game with flaws, it's actively being fixed and for a growing number of people already is. Missing a feature you wanted doesn't make it unfinished or broken it just means you like something they didn't want which is a choice for them to make not us
To use your comparison, you don't tell the company how to build the car you want, you find the company that already does.
Kozenger said:
I don't think they think it's ok, I think they realize at a certain point the petulant vitriol stops being productive. Taleworlds and the Bretynwalda devs posted on the first day an 'Oh **** our bad message' and apologized. There's not much left to do at this point. If you really think you can get a refund from steam then tell steam, posting here and ranting and raving is just posturing.
Radix
Veteran
This sentence is tricky as hell. Mainly because it is true and false at the same time. If 10 % of community complains about lack of features then this sentence is true, however if good deal of community complains about lack of features then this sentence is false. All in all over half of the negative reviews on steam (60%) point out lack of many features (and many not working, or badly designed), and I assure you that all the official reviews will point this out too (or at least the ones that don't sell good reviews).
Regarding itemization, it has been said countless times by now by many many people. There is diversity and enough sources to triple the amount of items in the game, the BS they give us that this is specific for dark ages is just a lie, there are enough sources to work with, no one was just bothered to do so and instead went with the dark ages excuse.
P.S. Notice how DLC was perfectly released 2 weeks before Christmas?? coincidence? ofc not, common practice in gaming industry to rush project before Christmas and release it half-assed, practice that has been allowed because of too many people in gaming community are always easy going on game developers for some reason always coming up with excuses for them.
Ralepozozaxe
Regular
I would love to make a better review on the content in the game, but even with the hotfixes I still can't play for more than a few minutes without it crashing or lagging into unplayable territory. And reloading isn't an option since it takes forever, longer loading times than the start of Paradox grand strategy games (a large feat). This is why I'm mad and want a refund.
The only positive thing I can say is that the store page says there are 300 towns, and that may be true (though whether they are all different I couldn't find out).
The only positive thing I can say is that the store page says there are 300 towns, and that may be true (though whether they are all different I couldn't find out).
Kozenger
Regular
mesor said:
This isn't one or two bugs. This isn't a lemon part in a vehicle. There are many things wrong with the game. Everything from horrible textures, body parts clipping through clothes, CTDs, horrid performance, incorrect tooltips, dancing trees, and the list goes on. They obviously didn't do much QA if I can pull all those problems out in a couple of hours.
I don't care about features included or not included. I've played beta games that are more polished than this DLC. I just want to play what I purchased without feeling like it's held together with duct tape. I expect more from Taleworlds.
Radix said:
That's what I'm getting at. The common practice is a bad practice and the consumer, you and me, pays the price every time.
Ralepozozaxe
Regular
mesor said:
If the Brytenwalda guys having to work 100 hours weeks to get it out by Taleworlds wanted time, then my complaints about bugs and refunds go to Taleworlds.
The stuff about 2-handers and gameplay stuff/content go to Brytenwalda, as they'll be the ones to change/explain it.
Radix said:
There are several OSP weapon and armor packs out there, and several were used in Brytenwalda. The problem, as I understand it, is that since this DLC is not free, the designers could not legitimately borrow OSP items, at least not without permission from the creators and perhaps even some sort of commission.
I don't know how you can say they are lying about what weapons and armor were available in Dark Age Britain, unless you're aware of a large amount of historical evidence that they ignored or excluded. They decided to take a conservative view and for the most part, stuck to that position. The lack of 2-handed axes and other types of armor is not a game breaker for me and is a situation easily remedied by the player.
As to your point about the pre-Christmas release, I guess I can see why they would choose that time to release the DLC. I suppose they hoped it would be finished and polished and maybe they did rush the release. That's conjecture. You assert that companies do this because many customers won't complain about the poor-quality of the work- that's a testable hypothesis, but I don't know if that's the case or not. It's easy to blame what you see as industry-wide bad practices on the gullible, fanboy consumer, but without empirical evidence, I'll take your opinion with a grain of salt.
Dan11311
Sergeant
I'm not soft on game developers. I just don't get enraged very easily over things that don't cost me too much money.Radix said:
I don't think the Dark Ages response to the lack of items is a lie per se. The guy who made the items went extremely conservative when selecting what to make. I think time was the biggest factor. Taleworlds pushing to release the DLC before Christmas. August, September, and December seem to be the big months for game releases. Remember that Brytenwalda took four years to fully complete. Even now, other community members are improving that mod. I think the team would have needed a much longer development cycle to make VC as good as Brytenwalda.
Redleg made some pretty good point regarding items as well.
Why would they release a new base patch practically the same day as the DLC? Retarded.
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