help with BRF/mesh... trying to start simple...

[Deus Ex]

hi all,

I have been working on building a new town/area from the ground up. I have been somewhat successful in learning how things work - but I need a bit of help with something.

I would like a nice, even, flat, LARGE space to be the location for my town. Now I've tried using the "arena" mesh, and body - I also used the sargoth square - even tried mucking with the "encounter spot" (too uneven).

I also tried using Dhorak keep as a base, and generating the terrain, but I think it is too much of a pain to generate the scene each time. But maybe I will have to go back to that (problem was there was weeds growing all over - not nice smooth grass).

It seems the best I can do is the arena or sargoth center - I used LURB editor and got rid of all but the base grass 'layer' (not real clear exactly how that all works). So all I had left was one mesh - grass texture. renamed the file etc. and got it all set to be loaded correctly etc - everything works fine - except that it is basicaly the shape of the arena (of if I use sargoth, it is the shape of the grass in town).

So how do I get nice, good sized square or rectangular mesh that is just plain grass??

any help would be appreciated. I have tried searching on various terms and not found anything helpful. If Lurbs viewer can do it, I couldn't figure out how.

many thanks

DE

 

[Thorgrim]

Just model it in a modelling tool (make a plane with a few segments, face mapped so you have the grass texture tiling nicely) export to obj, import, apply grass texture, then add the new mesh to scene_objects.txt, and place it in game. The only issue is that you wont really be able to have a proper collision mesh for it (you'll need to use another meshes collision mesh if you want one) so I'm guessing you may fall through it or something (not too sure on that). Best to wait for the BRF editor to support making new collision meshes.

 

[-GandalfTheGrey]

You can also use the in-game editor. In rgl_config.txt, put enable_edit_mode = 1 instead of 0. Start the game and click on the Terrain button in the world map. Put 1 (not 0) to flora seed, river seed...

 

[Deus Ex]

Thank you for the replies gents...

Thorgrim, hmmm that would be another whole new mess to try and learn *grin*. I got as far as I did mostly through trial and error - there is a lack of basic intstructions for most modding stuff (I've been documenting my investigation - dunno if it will be worth posting for someone else - but it sure helps me when I have to go back and try something for the 3rd or 4th time). Basically I used Khalid's GREAT primer on how to create new cities and factions etc - but I just want to start with an "empty" city/town and build my own stuff - and it does not appear that any of the meshes work well for that. I was wondering what other modders do when they want to start from scratch...

Never tried to do any 3d modeling - I imagine you mean using "wings"?? (I think I have heard that mentioned around here). If you could point me to some instructions or tutorial of how to do that, I would appreciate it.

Gandalf - are you saying it might be better to go ahead and use the generated terrain? I did play with the in game editor and made a flat one with almost no trees - but I only set the flora seed to 1 - maybe if I set them all to 1 it will get rid of the weeds sticking up? IF you are not talking about using the generated outdoor scene for my "base" - than I am confused... any help would be appreciated.

I will happily take this to PM if it is redundant for all the other folks out there...

Thanks again for your help!!

DE

 

[Deus Ex]

ok - I have installed Wings and started playing with it. However, when I make a simple plane and then export it as an object file and try to open it with Lurbs editor it crashes.

I could really use a simple explanation of how to take stuff from wings and move it into lurbs/BRF... Please?

thanks
DE

 

[Ahadhran]

the simplest way to get what you want is to copy say the dhorak keep scene object and rename it (yourscene.obj).

Then go into the in game edit mode and create a flat plain (this may take some trial and error), once you have the flat plain copy down the code in the top of the screen.

Next in your module scenes python file, copy the dhorack scene entry and rename it to be the same as the name as your scene object. Then type the code from the in game edit mode (that you copied down) into the place where the dhorack keep code was. then save the file and exit.

Next open the module game menus and depending on if you have already made a menu for your new town or are using an old one (overriding a current town), you will either add a menu (you can copy the dhorak keep one if you want and rename it) and then point it to your scene name, or take a already existant menu and change the scene it points to too your new one. Again save and exit.

Last of all open Module Parties and make sure that you town is pointing to the menu (that is pointing to the scene that you want to represent the town). Again save and exit.

Next compile the the module system and go into the game (with in game editing still active). Visit the town that you directed the scene to and it should bring up your new menu and then jump to the flat plain scene you created. You can then hit ctrl+E and start adding objects, entry points ect until satisfied. then hit ctrl+e again and save your changes (you will be prompted). You are now done

This is assuming that you know a bit about editing with python, if you don't just ask, and I'll try to clarify later.

 

[-GandalfTheGrey]

Gandalf - are you saying it might be better to go ahead and use the generated terrain? I did play with the in game editor and made a flat one with almost no trees - but I only set the flora seed to 1 - maybe if I set them all to 1 it will get rid of the weeds sticking up? IF you are not talking about using the generated outdoor scene for my "base" - than I am confused... any help would be appreciated.

Well, Ahadhran said it for me. Janus is already using this technique for the Arena Expansion : the jousting field and the four team arena are generated scenes, which codes were copied.

 

[Deus Ex]

the simplest way to get what you want is to copy say the dhorak keep scene object and rename it (yourscene.obj).

Yes, thanks. This is what I tried at the very first. Even copied and used in the Dhorak keep scene/objects file (scn_dhorak_keep.sco) and played around with the castle objects (going to start from scratch for this one though). Anyway, many thanks - I did manage to figure that much out on my own.

However, there are two minor drawbacks that caused me to try using the meshes from the indoor scenes - like the arena. (It is interesting to hear that Janus is using the generated terrain for the arena expansion, I was wondering what modder's were doing for large base surface areas)...

First drawback - weeds. I set the 'seeds' to 0, 0, 0 on the terrain genrator - I still get a few bushes and trees, tried one - again, maybe not quite as many - when I slide the 'size' bigger - I tend to get more trees. If I make a pretty large map, I can usually get one with a large enough empty space - but even when the model in the terrain generator looks like it has flat grass, when you enter the scene - there are 2'-4' weeds all over - you can walk right through them - but I was hoping for a flat surface.

Now if you have a way to generate just grass - I would like to hear it (or if you have a seed that I could use...) that would help mitigate THAT drawback.

The other drawbak is more of a nit - it takes a good 10 sec some times to generate the scene when I enter. I don't get that delay when I use an indoor mesh like sargoth_squar or the arena.

Thanks for the feedback and information. I know now I can use the generated scene - but I am still thinking about how I could use an indoor mesh. I have been playing with Wings and BRFView...

I have started to have some small success now in moving objects back and forth between the two applications. I have been trying to play with the arena mesh - I got a copy into wings and mucked around a bit - manged to get the modified copy back to BRF eventually (finally figured out that I had to 'retexture' them once I had them back in BRFView) - but I still have not been able to use it in a scene. going to muck some more today. If I can take the arena mesh and scale it and shape it some, that might make a good base layer mesh..) ~shrug~ maybe it won't work and I'll end up using generated, but I can see a benefit in being able to use a custom mesh for the scene - so I'm going to keep trying a bit more.

Thanks again for the replies!!

DE

 

[Deus Ex]

Just model it in a modelling tool (make a plane with a few segments, face mapped so you have the grass texture tiling nicely) export to obj, import, apply grass texture, then add the new mesh to scene_objects.txt, and place it in game. The only issue is that you wont really be able to have a proper collision mesh for it (you'll need to use another meshes collision mesh if you want one) so I'm guessing you may fall through it or something (not too sure on that). Best to wait for the BRF editor to support making new collision meshes.

WOOT - I am making progress.

I have been able now to take the mesh for the ground from the arena and import it into Wings. From there was able to scale it down and then export it and read it in with BRFView - attach a texture and then use it. worked fine - scaled down about 50%.

So, my next step was to scale it UP -- edited with wings, made it about 400% bigger. exported it etc - it WORKED - erm, sort of.

My character and my npc's all all standing up to their waists in the ground. I figure this must have something to do with the collision mesh you mentioned Thorgrim. So obviously it is there somewhere in the model - but when I scaled it up it moved things somewhat. Is there a way to "see" the collision mesh in Wings or something? I am thinking that all I need to do is "adjust" the position of the mesh up a couple feet...

Any other thoughts???

many thanks again everyone for all the help!

DE

 

[Thorgrim]

Well, you should be able to just scale it only on the x&y axis (only horizontally) I don't use wings 3d so im not sure how you do that...

You might also want to scale the UV coordinates so that the terrain still looks good in game.

Good luck

 

[Janus]

I am envisioning the collision mesh remaining the same size while the visible mesh is much larger... walk a short distance and fall through the ground into the void. Just a guess, but good luck anyway.

Yeah, setting "1" as the seed for some reason tends to give you the least of whatever the seed is for, particularly trees. Also, larger generated terrains (X and Y size) do seem to take considerably longer to load and cause a hit to framerate. So the smaller you can make a generated terrain, the better, performance-wise.
I had a small-medium sized terrain for the 4-team arena but switched to as small of one as I could get away with (without the outside slopes coming through the arena walls), and it seems to have improved the performance considerably.

 

[fisheye]

When collision mesh support finally arrives, it would be a great, great public service if those comfortable with modelling could release bare-bones flat scenes (like currently we have the nice flat "arena","bo_arena") For example, we could have large square of flat grass, large square of flat cobblestones, large empty room indoors, etc. Then those modders with no modelling skills can create nice scenes by just placing placables inside the in-game editor.

 

[Deus Ex]

When collision mesh support finally arrives, it would be a great, great public service if those comfortable with modelling could release bare-bones flat scenes (like currently we have the nice flat "arena","bo_arena") For example, we could have large square of flat grass, large square of flat cobblestones, large empty room indoors, etc. Then those modders with no modelling skills can create nice scenes by just placing placables inside the in-game editor.

Hear hear! - I agree.

I am going to try what thorgrim suggested (even though I am a complete novice at 3d modeling) I *think* I can figure out how to scale it along X & Y and then see if that leaves the "surface" (collision mesh) at the same location. If so, I will glady share my results...

Currently I am using generated scene - and the delay each time I return to the city/area center is really annoying. I would REALLY like to set it up as an indoor(static) scene if possible.

I would really like to understand more about collision meshes. I am assuming they have something to do with the bo_xxxx mesh files. But I have not been able to find those files anywhere to look at them. Thorgrim mentioned something in another thread about editing the text files and adding a collision mesh there (from another existing object). But it is not very clear how that works and what it is doing.

Can anyone point me toward more info on collision meshes and maybe how the corresponding data in the text files applies (I have been using the python files to do most of my modding).

Any help would be greatly appreciated - I will gladly share what (little) I have learned so far if there is interest.

many thanks

DE

 

[Deus Ex]

Best to wait for the BRF editor to support making new collision meshes.

OK - so is there an estimate on when the BRF editor will support collison meshes? BTW where is the collision meshe stored? Is it part of the obj file and thus brought over when the obj is imported into BRF?

Also, what relationship do collision meshes have with the "bo_something_mesh" files??

From my mucking around - it appears that the collision mesh is part of the "bo_somethin_mesh" file. Any ideas??

thanks
DE
(starting a new thread with this - as it appears nobody is reading this one any more..)