Harrassing in a siege.

[Selvhan]

I was sieging a castle with a lot of archers. I decided to kill the most enemy I could. My archers run out of ammo so I decided to retreat to resupply. I lost Honour and Renown ?! Isn't the purpose of a siege to harass your enemy and to stop any supply to come ? Loosing honour and renown ? Really ?

I am disappointed that in PoP you can't harass a castle anymore.

 

[noosers]

Yeah. Peppering the opponents with arrows and then running like the bunch of chicken you´re once they spent their shafts instead of going in and crushing some skulls is both very martial and honorable.

Another innocent change to avoid those useful rounds of attrition and let you sustain a few casualities before you leave the area with your tail between your legs because the walls still held and you were fended off. 

Ain´t it nice to be humilated?

 

[UltimateCommander97]

Yeah. Peppering the opponents with arrows and then running like the bunch of chicken you´re once they spent their shafts instead of going in and crushing some skulls is both very martial and honorable.

Another innocent change to avoid those useful rounds of attrition and let you sustain a few casualities before you leave the area with your tail between your legs because the walls still held and you were fended off. 

Ain´t it nice to be humilated?

Owned

 

[bishopbutters]

I am not sure if this was patched but if you leave the area (run to the edge of the map and then exit) as opposed to Tabbing out (retreating via tab) you should incur no loss of Honor, just sustain a few small losses that risked there necks to cover your escape.

Did I mention all those that died covering for you were 2 days from payday and had families to provide for? Good thing the commander doesn't need life insurance eh 

 

[Selvhan]

There is no shame in strategic withdrawal. This tactic was used by lots of people and still being used. And since there is only one ladder to climb the wall, you have 10 guy hammering the poor 1st in line.

So you guys never used horse archer ? Because they always ran away to pepper you. They should loose honour and renown !

 

[LevonVeldspar]

When what would happen in real life conflicts with game design considerations, design should always win. Besides, the penalty for retreating is so small that its barely a deterrent.

 

[Lord Tristan]

There is no shame in strategic withdrawal. This tactic was used by lots of people and still being used. And since there is only one ladder to climb the wall, you have 10 guy hammering the poor 1st in line.

So you guys never used horse archer ? Because they always ran away to pepper you. They should loose honour and renown !

The honor and morale loss is to prevent people abusing archer-only or armies consisting of mostly archers. I see your point, but real people did not go into battle just for that (The Devs also implemented Sally Outs to archer armies for that reason too) and fleeing a battle would injure your men's pride, make you lose face, and allow the enemy to get more supplies. And the retreat is a thing abused in any mod.

 

[riraito.]

if you're having that much trouble then just bring a big army and autocalc.  some maps aren't worth sieging. there's one in the empire area that comes to mind.  you have to go inside of a killing box and you're surrounded on every side by archers. 

 

[LevonVeldspar]

I never autocalc, so those few maps where the battle is actually intense rather than a going-through-the-motions routine meatgrinder are my favourites.

 

[smothdude]

if you're having that much trouble then just bring a big army and autocalc.  some maps aren't worth sieging. there's one in the empire area that comes to mind.  you have to go inside of a killing box and you're surrounded on every side by archers.

Autocalc is as bad in this game as it is in the Total War games. Even if you have amazing army your troops are sure to be ****ED by the enemies.

 

[riraito.]

autocalcing is a great way to get noldor prisoners and loot.

 

[Arcanum]

There is no shame in strategic withdrawal. This tactic was used by lots of people and still being used. And since there is only one ladder to climb the wall, you have 10 guy hammering the poor 1st in line.

So you guys never used horse archer ? Because they always ran away to pepper you. They should loose honour and renown !

I concur. I do not use all archer armies however. I have about 1/3 archers and the rest mixed. Archers exhaust their ammo and we retreat via the map edge to prepare our assault after testing the walls. Repeat the next day, commander is feeling ballsy and Red River his two handed ruby rune sword wants a taste of blood. The commander trudges up the ladder and cracks a few skulls while the enemy thrashes impotently trying to reach him. After a few skulls are cloven the commander and his men retire to their camp and take what wounded and dead were accumulated in the fierce archery duel.

The next day begins much the same, with the defenders prepared for a repeat of the other days and begin to return fire when the attackers begin to shoot. However, they are surprised when the commander leads his infantry and cavalry up the ramp and smashes aside the defenders by the ladder before singlehandedly clearing an archer tower whilst the infantry defenders are occupied with a horde of very angry Fierdsvain troops. The walls ran red with blood as the attacking archers were called up onto the walls to fire into the side of ensuing melee.

 

[Shire]

Dumbest thing about sally out is that your troops have like 3 arrows with them. Okay, design and mechanics sometimes must go against common sense, but like seriously what the ****? Your archers usually mill about in a siege, holding their bow and EMPTYING THEIR QUIVERS nearly totally and then picking up the arrows when the siege would start for realzies? That doesn't fly for me even in light of design&mechanics. That is just dumb cheese. But oh well, sieging has been really retarded since M&B beta anyway, the whole 1 ladder, no siege equipment, no feint attacks etc. etc.

I mean sure, there's limitations what a game can do, but implementing the dumbest cheese possible to stop players from playing around from the very get-go retarded parts is...

I'd disable sally outs or the ammo penalties if I knew how.

 

[noosers]

They options withing the game mechanics to prevent the PC from bringing a 100% archer army and doing the old war of attrtition style.

Personally, I think it was a good step because it forces the player into more intense battles, which is fun (Yes, wincing because you see your preicous elite soldiers falling like leaves if considered fun). And if your full army of Ravenstern Rangers got eaten by a Green Horde sallyout and those huge ages just chopped and chopped, you´ll have learned a very valuable lesson.

But keep in mind you can still do it that way, just with less archers and a few losses sustained or smart leaving in order to avoid the honor and morale penalty.You get no penalty if it was a failed storm on the walls (means you sustain a few causualities yourself) but only if you try to abuse a weak game mechanic.

Though the honor loss became more important with the invention of CKMHO but well, that´s just another nice and innocent sideeffect of various game mechanics, just like Minor Faction Sacking takes care of the huge freed prisoner minor army blobs.

 

[gfletch]

what is CKMHO?

 

[Mad Vader]

what is CKMHO?

It's your custom Order for people who like cryptic acronyms.

 

[noosers]

Wrong.
CKMHO is a typo.
CMKHO is the true thing, saves a lot of wear and tear on my keyboard and fingers. 

 

[Bruxy]

This tactic was used by lots of people and still being used.

Everyone does it? Well, that sounds like a perfectly robust argument.


Also, CMKHO? Knighthood is one word and "custom-made" is a little excessive. Custom Knighthood Order should clearly restrain itself at CKO (a proper TLA).

[/pedant]

 

[Mad Vader]

Also, CMKHO? Knighthood is one word and "custom-made" is a little excessive. Custom Knighthood Order should clearly restrain itself at CKO (a proper TLA).

CKO is perfectly reasonable, but some people in Austria think that using extraneous words is witty for some reason.

 

[Bruxy]

Also, CMKHO? Knighthood is one word and "custom-made" is a little excessive. Custom Knighthood Order should clearly restrain itself at CKO (a proper TLA).

CKO is perfectly reasonable, but some people in Austria think that using extraneous words is witty for some reason.

Everyone likes an oversized acronym. It makes them feel special.

Trust me. I make them up for a living.