"hardcore" mode

[jfac666]

This is just a thought that ive been toying with a bit in my mind. the game as it is is quite balanced and enjoyable. but for those of us who cant get enough realism. i would suggest a play mode in which, str only affects your damage, and ironflesh is removed, rendering all characters taking the same amount amount of "injury" to mortally wound. because the frustration i have is you can mow down looters with one shot on foot, but you connect on a mail wearer with his back turned and he just eats a quarter of his bar and turns around and ambushs you. and also perhaps adding a linear weapon dmg/spd <and perhaps even movement spd>  bonus once you reach a certain proficiency. so a truly "deadly" swordsman would reflect the hours of time it takes to raise proficiency to those levels, and it would also allow for characters of different specialization (for instance a great leader) can still be competitive in combat. and last but not least, raising capture rates, and adding lord/player death, so with this new challenge you can severely weaken the enemy with to an untimely battlefield death or crippling wound.  but these are just my thoughts, what is everyone elses take id like to hear others opinions as i may try to make a mod that incorporates some or all of these ideas.

 

[DamienZharkoff]

You do realize people wear armor to NOT die from 1 hit, right?

 

[FrisianDude]

What kind of blind gnat is "ambushed" by someone he'd just hit?

 

[jfac666]

You do realize people wear armor to NOT die from 1 hit, right?

i am aware of that, but to be completely immune to one hit deaths, was something even armor could not provide. and your sarcasm was not neccessary. the point of this was to stress, that ironflesh and hp bonuses make the game more playable, in reality, no one could really have "harder skin" than someone else, or be too strong to get stabbed in the neck, this has nothing to do with armor but whos underneath it.

 

[jfac666]

What kind of blind gnat is "ambushed" by someone he'd just hit?

that wasnt the intent of my words, but thank you for showing your immaturity. its good we know now.

 

[DamienZharkoff]

What kind of blind gnat is "ambushed" by someone he'd just hit?

that wasnt the intent of my words, but thank you for showing your immaturity. its good we know now.

Thank you for showing you don't know not to double post :p

Ironflesh is a common game term. It does not neccesarily meany harder flesh, but more "Pain Tolerance". Get yourself cut in half, and compare how long you stay concious compared to a veteran soldier who gets blown in half. (You can live for quiet a bit of time while in half, its horrifyingly amazing, but the less pain you have experienced, the less tolerance you have for it is what I am getting at)

And 1 hit deaths DO happen if you actually play the game on full diffuculty. Ever got caught in the helmet by a Rhodok Sharpshooter?

 

[FrisianDude]

What kind of blind gnat is "ambushed" by someone he'd just hit?

that wasnt the intent of my words, but thank you for showing your immaturity. its good we know now.

Good you know, the rest knew already.

 

[jfac666]

alright damien ill meet you halfway on this. you do have a point it is a game. but my point of this thread is that one man cannot withstand twice as much physical injury and continue battle unphased than another. the human body can only withstand so much damage and blood loss before it can no longer function. although the way you referred to the soldier did make a good point. perhaps it should be replaced, with something like survival (in this case an individual surgery skill, that is applied to troops to show there natural resilience, and thus making more experienced troops able to survive longer).the only thing that will prevent you from taking an incapacitating wound is armor and avoidance, thick skin wont do **** against an axe. my overall message was for other realist nuts like myself to not get frustrated that one strike can kill one man where he stands but the same strike would take 3 to kill another.

this also gave me another idea. health and stats should be linked in somehow. ive had a few serious injuries and upon leaving the hospital after a blood transfusion, although i was still alive and even somewhat back to normal within a few weeks, i didnt have the strength to lift a glass over my shoulder and my reflexes were almost non existant. so that way a man on the verge of death/ unconciousness (to later be determined whether or not hell survive) well not strike as strong or as fast as a man who just joined the fight. although i hope this clarifies any disagreements in the topic. and i hoope to hear more feedback on this.

 

[DamienZharkoff]

Its not really "Injury level" as much as it is "Pain Threshold" remember, your the main character, hits you take are in the designated"Main Character" areas. Basically, thing of the HP bar as each persons unique threshold before he goes down. Thats why one man can take a club to the head and keep fighting a bit longer before going down, while mister cowardly horse archer whose not as used to pain would go down immedietly from that hit. No two humans are the same.

Degrading stats vs HP, not until we have a mechwarrior style damage system (Or fallout 3 style) for limbs. Because getting the **** hit out of my left arm shouldn't effect my sword arm all that much.

 

[Ruthven]

What kind of blind gnat is "ambushed" by someone he'd just hit?

Come on man, it's a blind gnat. Take it easy on him! I'd like to see how YOU would do in a fight if YOU were a tiny insect that couldn't see.




Anyways, it IS possible for the player to die in certain mods.

 

[jfac666]

alright i do see your point now, damien. like i said it was more of a concept idea than anything really implementable. but where i see what your saying about the left arm right arm although, the way i saw it is less of pain and more, you can only withstand so much bloodloss. i mean take for instance if you have ever given blood, 1 pint of blood is enough to make you feel slightly dampened and tired, 2 would make you quite foggy, so once you start getting to 4-5 pints if your still awake and standing your lucky, and then your natural resilience and will to live will kick in but you wont be on your feet swinging a sword. besides i always wondered what a static threshhold for an incapacitating wound could alter the gameplay. although i think we can maturely agree to disagree.

 

[Archonsod]

alright damien ill meet you halfway on this. you do have a point it is a game. but my point of this thread is that one man cannot withstand twice as much physical injury and continue battle unphased than another.

Yes they can Look up the British battles in the Sudan for an example; the more fanatical of the Mahdi's troops would often keep coming on, even after having limbs ripped off by cannon. Even once they were put down several men were killed when the wrecked remains of one of these fanatics decided to spend it's final moments sinking a blade into British flesh. It's not a case of taking more damage than another as such, simply a question of whether you continue fighting even though your entrails are on the floor, or you lie down and wait to die.

the human body can only withstand so much damage and blood loss before it can no longer function.

Short of tearing off limbs or severing the head you'd be surprised how much damage the human body can soak up, even if the wound is eventually fatal. Some people will literally fight on until rendered physically incapable, others will give up as soon as they take a dramatic wound.
Thing is, you can't really identify it solely as being physical or psychological. Someone in general good health is naturally better capable of withstanding injury than someone in frail health, similarly a demoralised soldier is far more likely to give up from a wound than one dedicated to the fight, even if the wound is not ultimately life threatening. You could change it to "survival" I guess, but it's still not a particularly accurate description. Iron skin on the other hand is pretty intuitive as to what it does, without giving a description of why (well, unless you take it to be literal, but that would be silly ).

Also I doubt ironskin is what's preventing the one shot kills. A maxed out ironskin (which requires a maxed out strength stat) grants a grand total of 20 additional hit points. By the time you're in that ballpark (level 20 or so at least) it's not really a significant amount. A solid hit will do twice that easily, if anything it's mainly going to protect you against the odd lucky shot. Armour is probably a bigger factor, and obviously a Swadian Knight in full plate is not going to be killed by a single sword slash, whereas the woollen shirt wearing looter is.

health and stats should be linked in somehow.

Eventually you can take stat - debilitating injury. The problem with having it as a result of any hit is balance. You end up with a "fail cycle" - the player gets hit, which makes it easier for them to get hit, so they get hit again, which makes it easier to get hit again and so forth until they're dead. It simply results in frustration for the player. Add in the fact that it could be simple bad luck which results in them being hit in the first place (AI archer with X Ray eyes for example) and you'd see most people simply quit playing.

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that M&B needs some mechanisms to compensate for issues such as the inability to dodge a blow or grapple an opponent.

 

[captain lust]

put all you setting on max and play a dismounted naked lone knight with a stick. you'll get a few one hit deaths there. (especially if you use manual block)

 

[FrisianDude]

Lust, if he's fighting Looters he probably won't be one hit-one killed. Even with a falchion those guys seem to need two chops.

 

[Zilberfrid]

If we call ironskin just toughness, and strength physical brawn, would we do better in this regard.

As for training pain tresholds. I know it the other way. Just months ago I was an avid swordplay trainer, an as such, got injured a lot. This week I chair-jousted with a coworer and destroyed my chair. it hurt. So, either back to cutting or just picking up sports to behave manly on pain again...