Halberd+Shield?
- Thread starter kiarj
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It might be possible, but it's not really worth it. The halberd is meant for being used two handed, and they are usually heavier towards the top, which would make it difficult to balance. Plus, the axe part of the halberd would become pretty much useless, as it would be near impossible to generate enough force for it to be effective.
Also by the time the halberd had come around, shields were very rarely used, so it would anachronistic.
Hope that answers your question.
Also by the time the halberd had come around, shields were very rarely used, so it would anachronistic.
Hope that answers your question.
It's possible, but it's extremely stupid. The halberd is practically unmanageable with one hand, and you sacrifice some of the best abilities of a polearm. Your leverage becomes ****, your striking power is heavily impaired, and you can't recover from strikes nearly as quickly.
FrisianDude
Archduke
Not too long and it's probably possible, I'd think?
Kasimir
Knight
kiarj said:
I doubt it would ever be really effective. Axes concentrate the weight behind the head, meaning the impact of a good hit is far greater but also means the balance is on the far end of the axe - meaning it needs more work to control. Trying to use a long axe with one hand lacks the leverage to control it properly, so it would not hit very hard, and gives up most of the advantages of using an axe in the first place.
What might work is having a shield on a guige so it covers one side without requiring a hand to control it, so you could keep both hands on the halberd. Spearmen used it. I suppose it would work with a halberd as well, but it might get in the way of a lot of cleaving strokes.
kiarj
Grandmaster Knight
Here's what I did so far:
I took a short staff (ground to mid torso), attached a 2.5 pounds weight to an end and a .5 pound weight onto the other, then mimmicked blade, tip and hook with cardboard.
So far, it's a bit heavy and tiring, but still wieldy enough for me to strike an unmoving target the size of a torso without massive recoil or lost energy.
What worries me is the actual cleaving power I can get. I guess I'll have to attach an actual blade on the thing.
I took a short staff (ground to mid torso), attached a 2.5 pounds weight to an end and a .5 pound weight onto the other, then mimmicked blade, tip and hook with cardboard.
So far, it's a bit heavy and tiring, but still wieldy enough for me to strike an unmoving target the size of a torso without massive recoil or lost energy.
What worries me is the actual cleaving power I can get. I guess I'll have to attach an actual blade on the thing.
MidnightWolf
Regular
look up madu
Actually a long axe with a large shield shows up more than a few times on the bayeux tapestry (I think, I have to check the book again). The same sort of thing also shows up in regard to the varangian guardsmen, however, whether they actually fought using both at the same time is not 100% sure.
Ok, I realize this pic isn't quite what you were talking about, but it's the best I could find right now.
Ok, I realize this pic isn't quite what you were talking about, but it's the best I could find right now.
He's hoping to get 'Hit shield on back!' messages.
kiarj said:
I guess I must have missed this part earlier, but what you might want to do is lighten it all, something like a pound at the top and a .2 to .5 at the other end. Heavy does not usually equal good, when weapons are concerned. The power shouldn't be coming from the weapon but from the mechanics of your body, starting in the core and radiating outwards, picking up speed as it travels out.
kiarj
Grandmaster Knight
LordOfShadows said:
Yeah, that's what I wanted at first, but since I have to grab the pole near the middle (about 3/4 of the regular), it's hard to get it in swing by movement alone.
I'm not sure about this next part, but I think the fact that grabbing it by the middle makes both sides more equal in terms of inertia? Or something else that makes it harder to get momentum on the head if it's too light.
But I'll try your specs, right now it takes my arm away in not 30 swings..
Aqtai
Sergeant Knight at Arms
No halberds, were meant to be used two-handed. In addition halberds emerged in the late 14th century and were used mainly in the 15th and 16th centuries. By this time shields had more or less fallen out of use in Western Europe. The only shields used in this time were small round bucklers and the large static pavises used by crossbowmen.
You might want to look into indo-persian style axes which sometimes had the tip extended out into a spike. Or, you could look up the goddendag (sp?) a dutch/danish weapon, which was basically a sick with a spike on the end and bumps or spikes running down the sides, similar to a mace but the spike was the main part, designed for killing heavily armoured knights.
Any particular reason your thinking of going with the axe, and not some other weapon?
Any particular reason your thinking of going with the axe, and not some other weapon?
Oskatat
Squire
goedendag, in dutch, was mostly a spiked mace, sometimes with an extended haft
halberds actually, sometimes called billhooks, though i dont know why, were mostly used to pull mounted enemies off the horse. it had a hook back, a hook on front that was sharpened on one side to make a sort of axe, and a spike.
the spike could be braced against a charge or used to stab, the hooks are self explanatory, and the axe bit was to make it more usefull against less heavily armed opponents or footmen or to hit the horse instead of the rider. It was more effective against horsemen than spears, but less so than pikes, but more effective against footmen than pikes or spears
it was harder to learn to use than spears though
what i forgot to add is that to be able to pull someone off a horse or off his feet, you need a 2 handed grip
halberds actually, sometimes called billhooks, though i dont know why, were mostly used to pull mounted enemies off the horse. it had a hook back, a hook on front that was sharpened on one side to make a sort of axe, and a spike.
the spike could be braced against a charge or used to stab, the hooks are self explanatory, and the axe bit was to make it more usefull against less heavily armed opponents or footmen or to hit the horse instead of the rider. It was more effective against horsemen than spears, but less so than pikes, but more effective against footmen than pikes or spears
it was harder to learn to use than spears though
what i forgot to add is that to be able to pull someone off a horse or off his feet, you need a 2 handed grip
kiarj
Grandmaster Knight
LordOfShadows said:
The goedendag is interesting, I'll look that up. As for the question, I'm just trying my hand at a new style, the sword is getting old.
Though the halberd and billhook are two very different (although often mistaken) weapons.
EDIT: Turns out the goedendag is a plain iron spike on a stick, no?
FrisianDude
Archduke
More or less. The M&B "club with spike" is essentially a goedendag, if a bit crude.
@ Oskatat: The halberd and the billhook are two different weapons, in that the halberd has a axe blade on the front a spear/pike/pointy thing on top and usually has a small projection on the back, whereas a billhook has a large hook which is formed from the bottom part of the blade (and is sharpened along the hook) and often has a spike on the back and was developed from a pruning instrument.
@kiarj & FrisianDude: I have seen pics of some quite elaborate goedendags, like elaborately built gilded maces but with a spike. I forgot to ask, what is this for, kiarj?
Add to the list of suggestions an African style stabbing spear - about 3 feet long with a foot long broad bladed head which could do some serious damage, usually used one handed with a shield in an underarm motion, and could be thrown if necessary, while still having enough weight to be an effective slashing spear.
@kiarj & FrisianDude: I have seen pics of some quite elaborate goedendags, like elaborately built gilded maces but with a spike. I forgot to ask, what is this for, kiarj?
Add to the list of suggestions an African style stabbing spear - about 3 feet long with a foot long broad bladed head which could do some serious damage, usually used one handed with a shield in an underarm motion, and could be thrown if necessary, while still having enough weight to be an effective slashing spear.