I know a lot of folks don't like to create a new topic to make smaller comments so I thought I'd provide a topic for general feedback to go with the changes in this update.
Oh and I should add that I am setting up a cinematic version for v0.15.10 as we speak. I am not going to promise to continue to support it through each minor update, but I'll try to do so. At the very least an optional download with the "how to" for installing it will be made available. I am doing it for this main update though as I foresee future v0.15 updates to be text patches.
Yeah, I released it about a week ago before I went on vacation. You can find it here spanning 4 posts. Also the wiki site received a fair bit of updating over the last week on v0.15 info. Most importantly information on troop abilities as they relate to your companions as well as a chart that shows what each companion unlocks. I haven't had a chance to develop an in-game UI that explains what a companion has and how it scales with their current skills, but the wiki is fairly detailed on how each ability works.
What is the difference between "cinematic" and regular versions? (just graphics?) Also, don't suppose savegames from regular will work with a cinematic re-install?
Oh, and most importantly... thank you, the mod looks good. Some nice new features nobody has done before.
What is the difference between "cinematic" and regular versions? (just graphics?) Also, don't suppose savegames from regular will work with a cinematic re-install?
I'm not liking the changes in strength requirements for equipment. Armor, in particular.
I guess I don't see the point. It doesn't take an incredibly strong man to wear Armor, in fact, modern soldiers today carry heavier packs than knights did.
I'm not liking the changes in strength requirements for equipment. Armor, in particular.
I guess I don't see the point. It doesn't take an incredibly strong man to wear Armor, in fact, modern soldiers today carry heavier packs than knights did.
I'm not liking the changes in strength requirements for equipment. Armor, in particular.
I guess I don't see the point. It doesn't take an incredibly strong man to wear Armor, in fact, modern soldiers today carry heavier packs than knights did.
You can turn off the strength requirement for items? You're probably thinking of the encumbrance system. Which I'm pretty sure there is already one in the game so I'm definitely turning that off.
Is there any way to recruit higher tiers of man hunter since its no longer possible to upgrade ? the changes to the recruitment system does take some time to get used to that's for sure. Maybe its intended but rhodok sergeant for example ( most top tier melee from most culture ) require peasant recruits instead of vet's. Its not directly related to this version but is there an option to have troops sell your prisoners at the closest salt mine ?
I too think the strength requirements are a bit overboard - in the first place, they're not consistent (some superior armors/helmets/legs require less strength than considerably inferior ones), and in the second place, the requirements and the encumbrance system are, together, redundant (they are essentially different ways of punishing you/imposing costs for the same thing - wearing heavier armor).
The requirements are harder on companions, however, as they level up much more slowly than your character, meaning that intelligence-focused companions (who seldom start out with more than 7 or 8 strength) are unable to wear much more than some light padding without sacrificing precious points that would normally go to intelligence for party skills. If the item requirements are going to be kept as is, it might be nice to give the companion starting strength scores a bit of a boost to compensate.
Sprinting is a fun and useful little add-on, and I enjoy it quite a bit.
The new troop system is really interesting, though I haven't fully explored the implications of it. It goes pretty heavily against "traditional" M&B strategic logic, as you no longer have to maintain much of a force at all until you start tangling with lords or assaulting castles; until then my parties tend to be small bands of elites/veterans. Speaking of veterans, I like the idea of distinguishing between veteran and peasant recruits, but as Notsure said, the options for veterans seem too limited - there seems to be only one unit on each roster that you can use them for.
I love the new unique troops and wish there were more of them, but I do find myself missing some of the troop trees that no longer seem accessible - manhunters, women, bandits, and so on. Mercenaries seem to be restricted to watchmen and caravan guards, too, which is less than optimal. That said, I haven't actually recruited them or played around with them yet, so maybe there's a point to them I haven't seen.
I haven't gotten a chance to get into the kingdom management stuff yet, as it takes forever to grind out that right to rule. Those rebuilding village quests help, though.
So far I'm really impressed with this mod - the whole attitude and purpose of it is the sort of thing I've been waiting for in a Warband mod and figured I'd never see. This is an impressive technical achievement and I look forward to seeing it continue to grow.
I'm not liking the changes in strength requirements for equipment. Armor, in particular.
I guess I don't see the point. It doesn't take an incredibly strong man to wear Armor, in fact, modern soldiers today carry heavier packs than knights did.
You can turn off the strength requirement for items? You're probably thinking of the encumbrance system. Which I'm pretty sure there is already one in the game so I'm definitely turning that off.
It cannot be turned off as that's part of the item file. Your comment is true that modern soldiers today carry a fair bit, however they're also not a 7-8 strength person. If you are wearing firefighting gear the same kind of issue can be seen. It isn't that a person of low strength can't wear it and can't move around in it. It is that they're more heavily weighed down by it and would have a difficult time moving around in it in a fighting capacity. There's a difference between being able to wear something and being able to march in it for the majority of a day and potentially fight a battle at the end of that march. That's really the key point here is that the only time this equipment matters is in the thick of a fight where mobility really matters. Items are still going to get a pass over for balancing yet and that's something I'll take a look into as part of that. One of the goals of such a change is to give benefit to the strength based characters in similar way to benefit has been improved for people who focus on other attributes.
Notsure said:
Its not directly related to this version but is there an option to have troops sell your prisoners at the closest salt mine ?
Your troops do not have this option, but the party role of Gaoler allows you to sell prisoners directly at any town with a ransom broker. If you visit the salt mine there should be an option to sell prisoners there as well.
Speaking of veterans, I like the idea of distinguishing between veteran and peasant recruits, but as Notsure said, the options for veterans seem too limited - there seems to be only one unit on each roster that you can use them for.
I marked certain native troops as veterans in part to test the system out and give folks a feel for how that works. When v0.16 is done none of the native troops will exist and the division between peasant / veteran will be more obvious.
Auvar said:
I too think the strength requirements are a bit overboard - in the first place, they're not consistent (some superior armors/helmets/legs require less strength than considerably inferior ones), and in the second place, the requirements and the encumbrance system are, together, redundant (they are essentially different ways of punishing you/imposing costs for the same thing - wearing heavier armor).
Yes, the items for the mod still need to be redone for balancing purposes. I felt this could be done through patching vs. keeping folks waiting even longer. Encumbrance and the strength requirements go after different aspects of armor use. The strength requirement is more a matter of could you feasibly wear this armor all day marching around and/or fight a battle at the end of the day. Encumbrance focuses more on how that armor restricts you if you do choose to wear it and that encumbrance takes into account the person's strength and/or agility as applicable. I fully expect folks will disable the encumbrance system if it is not to their liking, but there are many who like that added system in place for challenge. By providing the option I tried to give people a choice of either on that count.
The requirements are harder on companions, however, as they level up much more slowly than your character, meaning that intelligence-focused companions (who seldom start out with more than 7 or 8 strength) are unable to wear much more than some light padding without sacrificing precious points that would normally go to intelligence for party skills. If the item requirements are going to be kept as is, it might be nice to give the companion starting strength scores a bit of a boost to compensate.
This is actually intended. It is all about choices and how much you feel is worth sacrificing to make that companion better equipped vs. more specialized within a given role. Companions take a little bit of a utility hit in this regard, yet they gain a lot of power in this update via companion abilities and previous updates through advisor & party roles.
Sprinting is a fun and useful little add-on, and I enjoy it quite a bit.
Glad to hear. I get a kick out of it too. The initial testing of setting it up was pretty hilarious with a 1000% run speed enabling someone to run down a horse on foot. If you haven't read more on how it works there is an article on the wiki that explains what controls how fast and for how long you can sprint.
I love the new unique troops and wish there were more of them, but I do find myself missing some of the troop trees that no longer seem accessible - manhunters, women, bandits, and so on. Mercenaries seem to be restricted to watchmen and caravan guards, too, which is less than optimal. That said, I haven't actually recruited them or played around with them yet, so maybe there's a point to them I haven't seen.
This is sort of a half-improvement for the recruitment system. The system is in place, but now the task is building the troops that take advantage of it. Unique troops are one example of how that will work, but they're the only one really put in place. The reason you do not see more mercenaries is that higher level mercenaries require that a mercenary chapterhouse be built at that location.
So far I'm really impressed with this mod - the whole attitude and purpose of it is the sort of thing I've been waiting for in a Warband mod and figured I'd never see. This is an impressive technical achievement and I look forward to seeing it continue to grow.
Thank you and the feedback is always appreciated. I'll have "feedback polls" up on the wiki before much longer once folks have had a chance to try the new version out a bit so I can get folks views on some of the new changes and assess the need for any tweaks.
If I remember correctly, 79 items were added in v0.15. Between Silverstag and Native, there are repeated items, so the 250+ body armour entries that exist, in sum, don't give you nearly as many options. As Windyplains said, they're being balanced right now. Balances changes can be patches.
the recruitment system its very cool but the str requeri on armors and the veterans are overkill man
using the cheatmenu items range 768 to 863 i got white textures on some helms and the teutonic helms looks ugly
It is interesting to gauge the response from different communities at times in making a mod. The strength requirement changes have been in Floris since around 2.52's release a little over a year ago and were very well received. I suppose I figured folks would see it the same here, but that may not be the case. As I generally have done after large revisions I will run a series of feedback polls to see how folks view certain changes and if those changes should be refined a bit more. What I would ask of folks is to give it a chance in gameplay for a bit and then give your feedback on in those polls.
Part of the reasoning in altering the strength requirements of items is to further establish a feeling of making choices when leveling up your character and that of your companions. Within the mod non-combat related skills have received quite a bit of power improvement to make them attractive alternatives to building a combat enhanced character. This balance of choice doesn't really mean much if you can easily wear plate at a very low strength requirement. Also it should be considered that troops as a whole are moving towards lighter armor types with AI armies fielding troops less in plate and more often in leather or chain at best (for the bulk of their army). So while your personal armor level may be reduced the "effective armor level" against what you would have had in v0.14 should not be much lower. For folks carrying over a save game from v0.14 this may not seem that way at first as AI armies will still have stronger tiered troops. For folks making a new game in v0.15 it should be noticeable how much lower an amount of top tier troops that the AI are running around with.
Items in the mod will still be undergoing a fair bit of balance changes and that is why the version 0.15.10 was used instead of simply v0.15 as there will be a v0.15.11 right around the corner and a .12 after that until I am content with the state of v0.15 before I move onto v0.16. I hope hat clears thoughts up on hat particular change.
I would be interested I hearing folks expierence with the UI changes, the troop ability changes for companions and the tournament alterations as well. A look at the game's economic balance (from freshly started games) would be beneficial as well since it was scaled back considerably from v0.14.
I happen to like the increased strength requirments. In previous versions you have all these leather armors and gambesons but as a player you would use it for perhaps the 1st month or two and after that you are wearing mail and plate for the rest of the game. Now the period of wearing this equipment stretches out much longer. It is also historically correct because the bulk of medieval armies wore leather and gambesons and only the Knights and Lords would have armor due to its expense.
I suppose another variation would be to simply change the pricing of the equipment. Even today the pricing difference is noticable. At www.medievalshoppe.com.au a 14th century archer's gambeson is priced at $150. For lamellar (basically leather scale armor) will run you $375. A Mail shirt jumps to $1000. You will have to go to www.armae.com, a French company that specializes in historical reproductions, to get plate mail and a full set (leg, gloves, helmet, body - Warband style) is priced at about $4700. SO in today's prices, if you wanted to outfit your 100 companions and men in plate it will run you $470,000. Nearly a half a million dollars! And that's not counting weapons, small clothes, etc.
Keep in mind, as well, that these prices are based on today's ability to quickly weave cloth and smelt metals through mechanization that was all done by hand 800 years ago. So in comparison to medieval times our equipment would be a real bargain!
Just something to keep in mind as you look at the way the game has been structured...
It is interesting to gauge the response from different communities at times in making a mod. The strength requirement changes have been in Floris since around 2.52's release a little over a year ago and were very well received.
There are probably many people who played with Floris for a long time and then moved to Silverstag and didn't even notice the loss of the strenght requirement. I didn't even remember that it was not part of the vanilla game.
And I find it interesting myself because it's about choice and progression not only about money (but more moneysink would be welcome).
Regarding the release: Apart from some UI issue (minimap disappearing or having to alt-tab to get the world map to display correctly) I really like it.
Truth is that I miss some things from Floris and I was really (and I mean really) suspicious with the new recruitment system. And now I could hardly live without it. It feels much more flexible than the vanilla system.
Surely with the new encumberance system you are already being limited to how effective you are in combat with heavy armour? Personally I'd prefer it to be a question of what you can afford rather than what you are strong enough to use, but I'm not overly bothered and to be honest I haven't really had a chance to test it out yet so perhaps I should shush.
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