Lord Engineer said:
wormydowg said:
lab637 said:
Lolbash said:
More sexism = higher prices and less renown earned after battle.
Thats not how sexism even works
In terms of game mechanics I would say this is actually a decent way to do it. Women may not be taken seriously at a trader and pay a higher price for the same goods (as they currently do for razors and shaving cream, shampoo, etc..), and a woman's achievements may have been viewed through a sterner lens in the time reducing renown for if the same task were performed by a man. I dunno, it makes sense to me but it could just be me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
This would be a historical example, but it doesn't sound like renown, more like notoriety.
Of course after the fact, she became a saint....
Would someone like to summarize this? Any history buffs? Sorry to lay that responsibility out, i know of the story, i just don't know enough to get all the details correct.
You don't have to be well liked to be renowned, if you are notorious then are renowned for your bad deeds or quality. Renown is fame not prestige nor infamy. I know renown is often used interchangeably with words that imply a positive reputation but strictly speaking renown is just how well known you are.
The previous games didn't really treat it this way and over simplified it, that's why I proposed an overhaul for renown to address this issue.
yep the whole women getting more renown is all dependent on how the system actually works. if it is like the old system and they have a sort of mono-culture in regards to gender (other than superficial stuff like dialog of course) then it wouldn't make sense for women to get more renown, assuming that they are going for the sexism route to penalize women like in M&B/WB.
wormydowg said:
lab637 said:
Lolbash said:
More sexism = higher prices and less renown earned after battle.
Thats not how sexism even works
In terms of game mechanics I would say this is actually a decent way to do it. Women may not be taken seriously at a trader and pay a higher price for the same goods (as they currently do for razors and shaving cream, shampoo, etc..), and a woman's achievements may have been viewed through a sterner lens in the time reducing renown for if the same task were performed by a man. I dunno, it makes sense to me but it could just be me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
This would be a historical example, but it doesn't sound like renown, more like notoriety.
Of course after the fact, she became a saint....
Would someone like to summarize this? Any history buffs? Sorry to lay that responsibility out, i know of the story, i just don't know enough to get all the details correct.
the french king was in charge of a failing monarchy, so he accepted a meeting with a peasant girl that was the daughter of a high ranking peasant (leader of a town watch). he was impressed with her, most likely her religious acumen (intelligence regarding religious matters despite being illiterate). she requested to be put at the head of an army, and so she was put in charge of a force, though this was a ceremonial role and others made all the decisions. it is argued if she did any fighting at all, if she did it was rather minimal. when her army managed some victories the king had a religious investigation into her take place to ensure that the pope accepted her status as a religious symbol, which ended up approving of her as such. this turned the war into a religious war, and thus it was godly to fight for the french king. this unified france and strengthened the crown. after a short time a truce was signed between france and england, and joan began looking for other ways to lead armies for god. when fighting resumed between france and england the french sent her to a city to try and save it, but it fell and she decided to lead the rear guard, which was captured. she was ransomed to the english from their french allies (france was not unified completely) and they put her on trial for a few different things that were blasphemous. she managed to beat some charges, but was convicted of others and burned at the steak. the pope reviewed the trail, partly due to the investigation done prior as she was in some way an agent of the church. she was found innocent by the investigation and was declared a martyr. hundreds of years later when feminism became a movement (1920ish) she was declared a saint.
not exactly the poster child for a female PC, as being a saint means she is considered to not have engaged in the 'manly' activity of fighting. though as far as a female NPC that is good at diplomacy that 'leads' troops she would be an excellent template.
Oxtocoatl said:
Thank you for this!
I agree with whoever said that women should get more renown for things that the dominant culture believes to be manly. However, just getting renown doesn`t mean that it will get you ahead in life. They might know who you are and some of them might tell to your face that they don`t like what you`re doing. Also renown in battle shouldn`t translate to influence as easily as it does for men.
I don`t really see the price argument, there is no evidence that women are more easily persuaded by gendered marketing than men. Maybe, mayyybe some NPCs could offer smaller rewards to female PCs, cause, you know, a woman`s gold piece is actually just a silver piece, but nobody wants the game to become impossibly hard because of sexism. I would be content with the WB system where it`s mostly flavor text and higher early game thresholds and a starting menu warning that gender and class matter in this world.
If they weigh in on the sexism angle then they should also commit to it by introducing cultural differences to how women are treated and potentially a starting menu off switch if the penalties on women get intense.
yeah the price thing doesn't make sense from a realism perspective. there were certain cultures in which trade was not done between strangers, in which case the relationship between the two people comes into play. in those cases if the culture is sexist then it would be difficult for a woman to do any trade, and if she did do trade it would either have strings attached or she would not be regarded as high as other men and thus with a lower relationship would end up with worse pricing. the cultures that did have strangers purchasing from traders for the purposes of trading the PC being female shouldn't really be an issue, as it really never was in the past.
the 'pink tax' is the only real example of this, and it is highly dubious as there are many counter arguments with data to back it up. on the other hand higher rates of assassination/ambushes in town would be less dubious if we wanted to bring modern sexism into the game, due to the prevalence of honor killings in a lot of the world. of course tying this to culture of the towns one is in would make this more immersive and interesting.